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Avatar 3 way 15/6/tweet part 2

#164
BurningSkies said:
Why do you say it won't come close above 1k? I don't really buy that. Most 4x10's have a huge hole in their upper mids that the Avatar shouldn't have.
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Because the Avatar midrange driver is not nearly as beefcake as the 6nd410 and I'm generalizing about the frequency range and power handling above 1khz. A 4x10 with deltalites (the typical high end neo 4x10) will average around 106db from 1khz to 4khz, and take around 10x the power of the Avatar midrange before melting.

So, if you attenuate your lows, you will get a heck of a lot more mids out of a standard 4x10 than a single Alpha 6 CBMR. Go figure.
 
#166
With the four 12's vs one 6" mid you've got a lot of cone area and multiple voice coils to handle more power and move lots of air in the mids. But you have very poor horizontal dispersion with a 410, so all if that sound it's likely to exist in a very narrow beam directly in front of the cabinet and become very weak off axis. So while it can disperse lots of watts, the 410 does so in a a way that is uneven and less than ideal.
 
#168
JdoubleH said:
With the four 12's vs one 6" mid you've got a lot of cone area and multiple voice coils to handle more power and move lots of air in the mids. But you have very poor horizontal dispersion with a 410, so all if that sound it's likely to exist in a very narrow beam directly in front of the cabinet and become very weak off axis. So while it can disperse lots of watts, the 410 does so in a a way that is uneven and less than ideal.
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Are the four 12" inch speakers you've got in your 4x10 deltalites? I mean, because I hear they're the typical speaker in a high end 4x10. And you really think you need large cone area to push volume above 1khz? And multiple drivers for more wattage in the 1k range?
 
#169
BurningSkies said:
Are the four 12" inch speakers you've got in your 4x10 deltalites? I mean, because I hear they're the typical speaker in a high end 4x10. And you really think you need large cone area to push volume above 1khz? And multiple drivers for more wattage in the 1k range?
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I was making a generalization about the poor dispersion but high thermal power handling of 410's; I don't currently own one, nor do I want to. I much prefer a cabinet designed for good dispersion and smooth response.

Edit: I wasn't defending the 410, just offering a possible reason for the perception why a 410 might be louder at certain freq's (standing directly in front of it).

Also, that typical midrange hole you mentioned could very well be due to the resulting impedance curve when you place four drivers in a poorly conceived box.
 
#170
OK this cabinet has officially ruined me as far as 410's go. I had a sound check yesterday for tonight's show where they had a GK head and 410 as backline and all I could think was "what the heck"? I couldn't hear the note from the amp - all rumble and no mids. I could hear the full sound of the bass bouncing off the back of the room from DI to the mains, but the amp was just smearing the sound. The guitar player who was six or eight feet away said it sounded great, but on this crowded stage, I was stuck right in front of it and just got mush. Reaffirming and frustrating at the same time.
 
#171
Joe Smithberger said:
OK this cabinet has officially ruined me as far as 410's go. I had a sound check yesterday for tonight's show where they had a GK head and 410 as backline and all I could think was "what the heck"? I couldn't hear the note from the amp - all rumble and no mids. I could hear the full sound of the bass bouncing off the back of the room from DI to the mains, but the amp was just smearing the sound. The guitar player who was six or eight feet away said it sounded great, but on this crowded stage, I was stuck right in front of it and just got mush. Reaffirming and frustrating at the same time.
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And this is why I seldom consent to not having my 15/6 on stage. I can't go back to the old ways.

:)
 
#172
JdoubleH said:
I was making a generalization about the poor dispersion but high thermal power handling of 410's; I don't currently own one, nor do I want to. I much prefer a cabinet designed for good dispersion and smooth response.

Edit: I wasn't defending the 410, just offering a possible reason for the perception why a 410 might be louder at certain freq's (standing directly in front of it).

Also, that typical midrange hole you mentioned could very well be due to the resulting impedance curve when you place four drivers in a poorly conceived box.
Click to expand...

Nah. Its not the impedance curve of the speakers in the box...its because most 4x10's have a big hole between where the 10's give up the ghost and where the tweeter kicks in. These new 15/6 designs don't have that problem because they're properly crossed over.
 
#174
The hole most 4x10s have is above 2500hz or so depending on the cab. On-axis of course.

Off-axis they're crud above 1khz or so.

Also, not all 10's have a hole between tweeter kick-in on-axis. Just off-axis.

But if you're standing in line with it pretty much any 4x10 will blow away the Avatar 6--which, remember, is not nearly as loud as a 6nd410.
 
#175
Well since you guys are talking volume vs. a 410 anyway...

I'm running two 4ohm 500 watt Avatar B210 Neos (vertical) and have really been struggling with them doing mainly unsupported (PA), loud, rock/top 40 gigs. Since I can't seem to get my band members behind putting money into our seriously low end PA I've decided it's time to change cabs. My main complaints are trying to project in the room, lack of mids and off axis lowend.

Is a TB153 realisticlly going to cut it to replace my B210's? The way this conversation is going it would lead me to believe it wouldn't. Is it total sacrilege to use one in conjunction with one of my B210's to get the volume I need?

I have been thinking of going with either a pair of 212's, a 412 or a 410/210 stack but this tread is making me rethink going that direction.

For the record using a Demeter 201s with a Crown Macro-Tech 1200 power amp ( 480 @ 4ohms/ 310 @ 8ohms stereo- 1300 @ 4ohms bridged).

Thanks for the help in advance.
 
#176
I've been reading alot of these threads/posts and wonder this myself. As I use a single UL410 or two RS 210's stacked vert with my Markbass or GB Streamliner 900 heads. And I only use 5 string basses. No PA support for me in a 5 pc mod-loud blues band. Of course I have a few cabs so I'd mainly like to use a 4 ohm, 15/6/1 for my med-large indoor club gigs. Again, only 5 string, P5 or Jazz 5 with flats.
 
#179
rpsands said:
With as much power as you have available a 4 ohm 153 should shred all over a pair of Avatar 2x10s. Absolutely crush them, from 40 to 1khz.
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Thanks for your response. I'm ingnorant (but trying to learn) on the hertz thing but I believe 40 to 1khz would be the range of a standard tuned 4 string?

I'm not a tweeter guy a all and have almost always turned them down on all my cabs. Is this cab going to be for someone like me or is it really dependent on the tweeter?

The sound that faulknersj was getting in his clips was amazing! I couldn't believe how loud the notes were when he played up the neck on the D and G strings. Any cab I've ever owned they would have just disappeared!:crying:
 

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