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Avatar 3 way 15/6/tweet part 2

#201
After reading Part 1 & 2 and some great reviews & technical info along the way, I called up Dave today and ordered one up. I definitely gotta try one of these for myself. I have had Avatar cabs (set of B210's in the past) and been very happy with those. These days I've been using the older model Schroeder 21012L, which is fantastic in a mix & cuts like nobody's business, but I want to see if the TB153 will bring the super-deep back to the mix by comparison while still maintaining comparable stage volume levels. ;)

Dave mentioned that he is seeing a last minute rush of orders in anticipation of switching to ceramic drivers very soon. I slid under the wire & was able to procure an 8-ohm Neo version for myself just a few minutes ago. Should arrive Tues-Wed next week (in time for a weekend gig). :bassist:
 
#205
so Avatar is moving away from Neo? I hadn't heard that. who knows anything about that? How much weight does it add to the 15? fwiw, I have a sb112 that's ceramic, sounds awesome, handles 500W, and only weighs about 40lbs.
 
#210
I always setup my rigs/basses at home I'm gonna use for my next gig. I jam thru them abit to be sure I dont have any issues, battery, cables, cab, bass, etc.

I noticed yesterday when I played thru my TB153 in my living room, I was standing about 15' away from it. When I walked left n right of the cab it sounds like it gets thinner on the bottom end. When I stood directly in front of it, I could feel/hear the very nice lows, punching me in gut sorta nice.

When I tried this with my UL410, it would get all low end, muddy as I walked to the leftside or rightside of the room. I really noticed how muddy it got to the sides.

So is this a benefit of the 3 way design (or downside), the no boom in the room? I upped the bass knob on the STM-900 and it still was much less bass than directly in front of the cab. Of course the room I'm in tonite will be much larger so maybe it'll bloom more there. It seems it will sound nice n low at the stage area while I'm in front of the cab. But thins out to sides of the cab. Of course this will prevent boom in the room but I wonder if I won't get those big lows out past 15' or so into the club. Prolly best if its thinner since tonite there will be drummer, guiturd, singer in the mix. Maybe this will help me cut thru that mish-mash better.

Just an observation, no biggee. I did get to hear a bassist play thru this rig at last weeks gig but I only sat directly in front of stage, about 30'-40' from stage and it sounds very nice. I did not walk to the sides of the stage to determine what he/rig sounds like there. Anyone say if this is a benefit or detriment? I'm sure more mids rather than boom is always better out in the room for folks. I'll see tonite how it does.
 
#211
ErnieD said:
when I played thru my TB153 in my living room, I was standing about 15' away from it. When I walked left n right of the cab it sounds like it gets thinner on the bottom end. When I stood directly in front of it, I could feel/hear the very nice lows, punching me in gut sorta nice.
Click to expand...

Weird. This should not be the case-lows are not directional like mids. The mid dispersion should be far better than the 410, and the lows heard everywhere IME. Maybe the room? Please let us know what happens at the gig.
 
#212
I blew the mid-driver in one of my TB153 cabs. Happily, Avatar (Dave) said they will send a replacement for under $50.

I had a CD player hooked up to my Hiwatt 400 and pair of TB153 to drown out the sh***y band in the studio space next to mine.

Mental note: Don't play Tool CDs super loud through a Hiwatt 400....speaker death ensues.
 
#213
lomo said:
Weird. This should not be the case-lows are not directional like mids. The mid dispersion should be far better than the 410, and the lows heard everywhere IME. Maybe the room? Please let us know what happens at the gig.
Click to expand...

But now, maybe with the mid-driver in this cab, I'm actually hearing the mids alor more for once and just not used to that. The UL410 in my livingroom was boom left n right and almost the same in front with the STM-900; that's why I'm trying the TB153 cab now with this head.

Now the TB cab sounds real nice directly in front of it, just seems to thin out left and right of front. My livingroom is long and sorta narrow so maybe that was a factor; near walls, fireplace along the sides. And maybe just too narrow an area to walk far enough to the sides to really get a true perspective.

Gonna see if I can get to the sides of the room tonite and have someone play thru it to see what's up.
 
#214
Room modes.

Another thing to keep in mind is vertical dispersion. If you're close up to the cab, it will be much less middy (thicker on the bottom), but further away it'll sound thinner...because of the angle of the mid driver to your head.
 
#217
NWB said:
That doesn't sound like my 153 at all. I wonder if there's something wrong with your unit? Maybe the crossover?

What head did you use?
Click to expand...
Well I figured I owed a follow up;
Avatar sent me a new crossover, and I installed it today. Cab still sounds really harsh but seemed a bit louder at the same volume and eq setting as my B210. With my standard eq settings the B210 is substantially warmer and much less harsh. I followed some advise I had gotten from lomo and boosted the lows more than I typically do. Then I cut the heck out of the mids to like 8 o'clock and it got warmer sounding. I just received a Tone Hammer off back order and having been experimenting with that on the AGS setting I set the Mid Freq at 3 and the Mid Level at 9 with the bass at 2 and it sounds pretty good. Much louder at those settings than my B210, in fact after messing around with it at volume my ears really, really hurt! Very stupid, it's deceivingly loud and I really should have been wearing ear plugs and not sat so close to the cab.:scowl:

I'm not used to doing much eqing and honestly the Demeter HBP-1 pre would probably be a better match for this cab than my VTBP-201S series.

I still wouldn't describe it as overtly warm sounding because the notes are so defined but I wouldn't call it modern sounding either. I'll be interested to hear it in the mix Friday night. If it can keep up with the guitarists I work with and get bootys shakin' on the dance floor then I can somewhat forgive the warmth issue.
 
#219
rmars said:
Well I figured I owed a follow up;
Avatar sent me a new crossover, and I installed it today. Cab still sounds really harsh but seemed a bit louder at the same volume and eq setting as my B210. With my standard eq settings the B210 is substantially warmer and much less harsh. I followed some advise I had gotten from lomo and boosted the lows more than I typically do. Then I cut the heck out of the mids to like 8 o'clock and it got warmer sounding. I just received a Tone Hammer off back order and having been experimenting with that on the AGS setting I set the Mid Freq at 3 and the Mid Level at 9 with the bass at 2 and it sounds pretty good. Much louder at those settings than my B210, in fact after messing around with it at volume my ears really, really hurt! Very stupid, it's deceivingly loud and I really should have been wearing ear plugs and not sat so close to the cab.:scowl:

I'm not used to doing much eqing and honestly the Demeter HBP-1 pre would probably be a better match for this cab than my VTBP-201S series.

I still wouldn't describe it as overtly warm sounding because the notes are so defined but I wouldn't call it modern sounding either. I'll be interested to hear it in the mix Friday night. If it can keep up with the guitarists I work with and get bootys shakin' on the dance floor then I can somewhat forgive the warmth issue.
Click to expand...

Be careful. Due to the fact that the 3015LF can get so loud without distortion, it often doesn't seem loud, until you realize that the walls and duct work are shaking and you realize what you're doing.

I don't have this exact cab, but a similar one and I can say that I would describe it as accurate. Meaning that if your amp is overly bright, you'll hear bright. If your amp pushes lots of lows, you'll probably have to start off by rolling them back quite a bit from what you're used to.

I EQ much less than I used to and still get way more lows and keep the mids intact since on my cab they're smooth although present.
 
#220
rmars said:
Well I figured I owed a follow up;
Avatar sent me a new crossover, and I installed it today. Cab still sounds really harsh but seemed a bit louder at the same volume and eq setting as my B210. With my standard eq settings the B210 is substantially warmer and much less harsh. I followed some advise I had gotten from lomo and boosted the lows more than I typically do. Then I cut the heck out of the mids to like 8 o'clock and it got warmer sounding. I just received a Tone Hammer off back order and having been experimenting with that on the AGS setting I set the Mid Freq at 3 and the Mid Level at 9 with the bass at 2 and it sounds pretty good. Much louder at those settings than my B210, in fact after messing around with it at volume my ears really, really hurt! Very stupid, it's deceivingly loud and I really should have been wearing ear plugs and not sat so close to the cab.:scowl:

I'm not used to doing much eqing and honestly the Demeter HBP-1 pre would probably be a better match for this cab than my VTBP-201S series.

I still wouldn't describe it as overtly warm sounding because the notes are so defined but I wouldn't call it modern sounding either. I'll be interested to hear it in the mix Friday night. If it can keep up with the guitarists I work with and get bootys shakin' on the dance floor then I can somewhat forgive the warmth issue.
Click to expand...

The thing with a 3015LF loaded two or three way cab is that they are deceptively loud. Something you noticed not wearing earplugs.

Because these systems are so clean in their delivery of bass sound (not to be confused with tone), you are missing a vital component to auditory cues...distortion. Because of a lack of distortion (not as an effect) there is nothing telling you to turn down.

Most have found they are actually playing louder without others telling them so. It is the same effect as bands that seem too loud through their PA, but really aren't. Distortion causes ear fatigue sooner. Conversely, bands that lack distortion in their PA are incredibly loud (in decibels) but don't appear as loud.

Which is why some prefer cabs that distort much sooner. It appears louder even at lower real (decibel level) volume.

It takes some getting used to because it is contrary to what most bass cabs produce.
 

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