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Avatar 3 way 15/6/tweet
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billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
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- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
It's still about the price. Well braced cabs made of 1/2" plywood have much higher labor costs than not as well braced cabs made of 3/4". For $500 3/4" construction is what you're going to get. I wouldn't complain about that, many companies that charge twice that and more still use 3/4" construction.
Still have my 2x12 Avatar Neo and if my memory serves it was spec'd at 56lbs. Same box as this one so probably in the same ballpark. Not a burden for an older guy, to grab.
It's 63 lbs., and it can be a burden for some of us. I was recently diagnosed with congestive heart failure and have gotten to where picking up 45 lbs. is a task! So I'm exploring the options of a 15/6 fEarful build at as low weight as I can get. i like the fEarful design anyway.
1/4" baltic birch with extensive bracing and use some a rubbermaid container of the right size (2.5 liters) for the midrange, and add more bracing. It'd be a lot of tricking out to get it to work, but it's doable.
I've built out of 3/8" BCX successfully, so I am positive 1/4" BB can be done.
1/4"?? RP, I don't know if I'd feel comfortable going that thin. It just might be OK but I would feel like it's too fragile.
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
- 76
- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
I made a Jack 15 variant prototype of 1/4" and 1/8" Baltic birch. 3015 loaded, it measures 22 x 22 x 20 inches, weighs 30 pounds, and it's solid as a rock. It's not what you make it from that matters, it's how you make it. The downside is that the build time of a cab of this sort is three times that of a typical box, and time is literally money. If you want ultralite it only comes at a high price.
Baltic birch is tough on the surface the plys are the same thickness. If you cover it in oil based primer and then several coats of duratex, you would be fine. The other possibility would be polyurea or something tough.
1/4" bb would be less likely to get damaged in my estimation than 1/2 from other stuff, as long as you brace extensively. You'd need to brace something like every 4" or so I believe.
I did every 6" roughly on my 3/8" cab and it was sturdy enough to sit on. BCX is the medium quality pine ply, very light and has voids...1/4" bbb would be way tougher. Especially with good corners and coating.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
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- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Frankly, I'd trust Avatar's weight figures a lot more than a lot of other industry-supplied figures these days. There are several companies that have weights listed for cabs that seem to be below what any decent plywood species in that thickness is likely to give. And certainly if they have managed to get close to those weights, there is some bracing missing that ought to be there. You don't get something for nothing.
I've been talking to Tom Bowlus, encouraging him to do some Common Scale cab weight listings charts - with comparisons to every company's claimed weights for the same cabs. Should be revealing about yet another spec that can be folded, bent, spun, and mutilated. Getting figures from users with no commonly calibrated scale, well, that means nothing that's posted can be trusted as a comparison figure.
Short of this happening, I think it's wise to not believe all the hype companies say knowing that's what buyers want to hear. That really gets the old Reality Distortion Field humming.
I've been talking to Tom Bowlus, encouraging him to do some Common Scale cab weight listings charts - with comparisons to every company's claimed weights for the same cabs. Should be revealing about yet another spec that can be folded, bent, spun, and mutilated. Getting figures from users with no commonly calibrated scale, well, that means nothing that's posted can be trusted as a comparison figure.
Short of this happening, I think it's wise to not believe all the hype companies say knowing that's what buyers want to hear. That really gets the old Reality Distortion Field humming.
Way to go Dave! I love my 210 + 115 combo from your yesteryears (pre neo speakers). If I ever decide to update my cab setup, you now have my favorite combo ready to go again. Although, I bet this 1x15 will sound better and be more useful than your previous 15" cab setup.
I'm diggin it. I love 15's. Plus a 6" and a tweeter? Done deal!!
I want two of them and then I'll be all set!!
I want two of them and then I'll be all set!!
Kudos. Superb idea. Let's shine a light here and see who's crawling around in the dark and who (if anyone) is on the up and up!
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
- 19,945
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- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
FINALLY somebody steps up to the plate!!
Looks like someone is going to strike out looking.
Curious about something. We know this is the same cab as the B212 but w/a diff baffle. Is the slot port the same size? (Height and Width). It looks it to my eyes. For anyone interested, the port on the B212 measures 2"h x 22.5w x 8.75"l. Would this be a good port size for a 3015LF? Anyone know what the power rating is on this cab? The 3015LF is rated at 450W; maybe the whole cab is good for 600W?
I agree with the mid/tweet placement; it is far less than idea. But for the majority of folks that buy this cab, they're probably going to turn the tweet almost all the way down anyway, so that might not be a big deal. I also agree that for the price, on paper, this looks like a helluva deal.
Then again, I'll be back in a private house with all my tools in April; I may wait and take a shot at a fEarful.
I agree with the mid/tweet placement; it is far less than idea. But for the majority of folks that buy this cab, they're probably going to turn the tweet almost all the way down anyway, so that might not be a big deal. I also agree that for the price, on paper, this looks like a helluva deal.
Then again, I'll be back in a private house with all my tools in April; I may wait and take a shot at a fEarful.
That's difficult to say being that nobody has heard the new TB153 (I really dig the "TB" in the model name!)
Are you asking for purposes of max SPL? Audience coverage? The new cab is an "unknown quantity" at this point b/c nobody's played/heard it. But based on the drivers used and cab size (want more info on that port!) there's a high probability this will be a really nice cab for the money. Many people, me included want to play this cab...but who will be the guinea pig and go first?
I ran the question of stacking the TB153 with another avatar by Dave, to see if during testing any particular cab stuck out as a great match.
"I think any of our cabs would go fine with the TB153 as they are typically close enough in spl that one won't overshadow any of the others."
But then I've heard so much about mixing driver sizes, and its possible downsides (debatable) that I figured 2 TB153's might be the ticket. That way the crossovers keep the different sized drivers out of eachothers way. The LDS 15/6/1 that KJung reviewed sounded awesome, but that's my only audio reference for a 15/6/1. As for as the 12's, a lot of praise/experience on TB so I was trying to get a rough comparison from anyone who may have A/B'd similar rigs, or built the 1515/6 fEarful.
I WILL be picking one up (4 ohm) in Jan, the question is what's the second avatar cab going to be? I have a Markbass CL300 that gets down to 2 Ohms so I'd like to get the full 300w out if it using one cab, and still have the option of stacking. If it coupled it with a 212 or 410, then I could run that cab at 4 ohms on its own too. Flexibility. Despite plenty of people, pro and amateur, having success with the 410 115 combo, it seems that the majority of TB'ers scoff at the idea.
"I think any of our cabs would go fine with the TB153 as they are typically close enough in spl that one won't overshadow any of the others."
But then I've heard so much about mixing driver sizes, and its possible downsides (debatable) that I figured 2 TB153's might be the ticket. That way the crossovers keep the different sized drivers out of eachothers way. The LDS 15/6/1 that KJung reviewed sounded awesome, but that's my only audio reference for a 15/6/1. As for as the 12's, a lot of praise/experience on TB so I was trying to get a rough comparison from anyone who may have A/B'd similar rigs, or built the 1515/6 fEarful.
I WILL be picking one up (4 ohm) in Jan, the question is what's the second avatar cab going to be? I have a Markbass CL300 that gets down to 2 Ohms so I'd like to get the full 300w out if it using one cab, and still have the option of stacking. If it coupled it with a 212 or 410, then I could run that cab at 4 ohms on its own too. Flexibility. Despite plenty of people, pro and amateur, having success with the 410 115 combo, it seems that the majority of TB'ers scoff at the idea.
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