Baer Amplification Megathread!

[Lowendtech]

So I am on pg 101 of this forum gonna binge read tonight again. I just picked up a used set of ML 112's and see that the 115's are DC'd so I figure this may be the place to go if anyone is interested in moving along a ML 115 or two
Thanks

Congrats. I loved my ML112's. Only reason I went in a different direction was size and weight (I saved a couple of inches and a handful of weight but every bit helps these days) but the ML's cured me of ever buying a cab with a tweeter/horn in it. With the ML's, I found exactly what I was looking for, for decades and sold me on the concept.

 

[somaramos]

Yes really looking forward to running them with the Jule Dovecage and M 2500

 

[Lowendtech]

Yes really looking forward to running them with the Jule Dovecage and M 2500

Oh. My. Shorts.

Well done. Well done indeed.

 

[somaramos]

Ok, so I am up to page 200, only 2-3 yrs have gone by and still only the ML112. the Val. is about ready to drop 10 units, and now the ML115 is about to change its driver. Say it ain't so Roger, I wanted the original Faitel driver. When does the V2 ML 112 come into existence? So it looks like I have 100 more pages and 10 yrs of info to go through. Suspense is killing me, and no SKM is not playing Coachella

 

[R Baer]

Ok, so I am up to page 200, only 2-3 yrs have gone by and still only the ML112. the Val. is about ready to drop 10 units, and now the ML115 is about to change its driver. Say it ain't so Roger, I wanted the original Faitel driver. When does the V2 ML 112 come into existence? So it looks like I have 100 more pages and 10 yrs of info to go through. Suspense is killing me, and no SKM is not playing Coachella

At the moment, the only cabs available in stock are the ML112. APX112 and APX210 cabinets. The remaining stock of ML112's will be the end of the ML Series II cabs, as the Faital mid driver we used is no longer available. So that leaves me having to redesign the ML series, which I hope will happen later this year. Faital has a couple other mid drivers that I've already tried and think sound fantastic.

Unfortunately, they Valkyrie is out of production with no plans to bring it back. It just doesn't seem like there is a market for a 2 rack space amp that weighs 26lbs anymore. It came out right at the time the first class D amps were hitting the market and I don't have to tell you which way the bass community went from there. I would really like to do another amp though.

 

[somaramos]

So did the ML112 series II cabs start after the first 20 were made?

 

[agedhorse]

It came out right at the time the first class D amps were hitting the market and I don't have to tell you which way the bass community went from there.

Class D amps had been out for quite some time already, our first class d amp was released the fall of 2007 followed up quickly with the bigger models. The Valkyrie didn't come out until 2013 (if I'm remembering correctly).

 

[R Baer]

Class D amps had been out for quite some time already, our first class d amp was released the fall of 2007 followed up quickly with the bigger models. The Valkyrie didn't come out until 2013 (if I'm remembering correctly).

Hey Andy, We actually started work on the Valkyrie design right when the first IcePower modules came out. It was those modules that initially gave me the idea to make an amp in the first place. But we never could get the tone/feel I was looking for out of those early modules, so, we scraped the class D power section and our engineer designed a totally new class A/B power section that I was much happier with. Honestly, based on what I was hearing from the early Ice modules, I was certain the idea would never catch on with bass players. Lol

Ah... to have had a crystal ball back then...or the foresight that Genz had to stick with it! I'm still not crazy about them, but I will admit that when done right, there are plenty of fantastic sounding bass amps out there using them.

 

[R Baer]

I think we made about 160 of the Series II cabs before the Series II came out.

 

[agedhorse]

Hey Andy, We actually started work on the Valkyrie design right when the first IcePower modules came out. It was those modules that initially gave me the idea to make an amp in the first place. But we never could get the tone/feel I was looking for out of those early modules, so, we scraped the class D power section and our engineer designed a totally new class A/B power section that I was much happier with. Honestly, based on what I was hearing from the early Ice modules, I was certain the idea would never catch on with bass players. Lol

Ah... to have had a crystal ball back then...or the foresight that Genz had to stick with it! I'm still not crazy about them, but I will admit that when done right, there are plenty of fantastic sounding bass amps out there using them.

There was a lot of unrealized potential that designers struggled to understand. Ii would have enjoyed the opportunity to create a class D version of the Valkyrie just because

I started designing with ICEPower back in around 2001 or 2002 using the ASP series for touring pro audio products (mostly powered speakers). learned a lot about the minutia of the technology and even built them into a couple of bass amps using a 500ASP and 1000ASP. They sounded every bit as good as the class AB amps they replaced but they ended up being (way) too expensive for what we were looking to do. There was a companion 200ASC module that was released a couple of years later (I still have a pre-production unit here) that was still a pro audio module but had a better form factor and ultimately had some off-sheet performance that once exploited made it a good choice for bass guitar (and acoustic amps). We probably built over 5000 amps (pre -Fender) using that one module, and along the way encouraged some additional tweaks in a revised module which is what we now use in the Subway D-350. The new module is pin for pin backwards compatible, meaning that this basic part has had an active service life of over 20 years without becoming obsolete and remains extremely reliable too.

It's too bad you didn't have a better experience with the technology, it's a whole new world out there and it's getting even better as it matures. The only problem is that the best SMPS/class D technology is expensive and the roll your own unreliable SMPS/class D technology is becoming cheap enough to entice designers to try to do it themselves on the cheap... we all know how this has ended for several companies. To do it right is incredibly difficult and requires specialty engineering skills in non-linear analog electronics. Many of the pro audio companies (Crown, QSC, Crest for example) now dominate touring pro audio with reliable class D amps. I haven't seen a class AB/G/H amp on tour in many years. Note that I am saying this as a longtime designer of class AB/G/H amps too, and with a little bit of sadness because I know that those particular skills and a couple of dollars will just buy a cup of coffee.

 

[berklee46]

Shot in the dark, but is anyone looking to sell one or two ML112 cabs?

 

[jasonbraatz]

Valkyrie still the best bass amp ever made. 28 lbs isn't heavy you babies.

I would really like to do another amp though.

You have at least one sold whenever you decide to make one.

Maybe the move is to get a Valkyrie model into the Helix or something, then people will start sniffing around for the real thing.

edit: If the Faital mid driver is going out of stock and there isn't a replacement that's close enough to necessitate redesigning the cab it probably makes sense for me to pick up a spare one, huh? (Actually, is that the same driver as the one in the Series I?)

 

[R Baer]

The ML Series I and Series II cabs have the same mid driver. I have handful of replacement mid drivers on hand should anyone ever need one, but since the ML cabs came out, we have only had one of those drivers fail, and that one happened during initial testing, so it was just bad from the factory. What you really need to check out is the new APX112/APX210 stack. It's fabulous and not as far away from the ML tone profile as one might think.

I hear you on the Valkyrie weight. Every time I pick up mine, I think "Come on, this isn't heavy". But in a world where tiny 10lb amps put out 1200w, it's a format that probably doesn't have a lot of traction these days. I'm sure that any new amp will contain elements of the Valkyrie's preamp though. There's some seriously brilliant design work in there and it would be a shame not to use it in another amp.

 

[R Baer]

There was a lot of unrealized potential that designers struggled to understand. Ii would have enjoyed the opportunity to create a class D version of the Valkyrie just because

Well, if your'e ever in a position to do that, feel free to reach out to me!

It's too bad you didn't have a better experience with the technology...

It's not that I didn't have a good experience with the technology, it's just that at the time we made the Valkyrie, the OEM Class D modules we tried, IcePower, Hypex and PASCAL (my favorite) just didn't do it for me. I had also bought numerous early class D bass amps that came out back then and I would run their preamps into a Crest CA9 or the class A/B power section of my EdenWT550 or Ashdown ABM500 and, without fail, ended up with a sound and feel that was dramatically more in line with my personal taste. So, the only logical conclusion we could make was that the class D modules at that time were not something that was working for me personally.

But yes, things have changed and the technology is much improved since then, to the point where I doubt many players even consider amp class anymore when deciding on what amp to buy.

 

[Lowendtech]

Well, if your'e ever in a position to do that, feel free to reach out to me!

Whoo boy, now I'm getting all dreamy eyed.

 

[jasonbraatz]

If you could get the Valkyrie preamp & tube drive section into something appropriately sized for a Class D head it'd be a short walk from there to a preamp pedal, and that seems to be where a lot of the juice is nowadays.

The post-EQ DI tone coming off of the Valkyrie is so excellent that even without a power amp at all it'd be a unit worth having.

 

[rmayer]

Roger, is there a time frame on the updated 15' cabinets? Loving my two ML112s but would be interested in what a 15 would add, as a stand alone cab or with one of the 12s. If there would be a minimal difference (in the low end) I would just stick with the 112s.

 

[somaramos]

Roger, I bet this never gets old. Nice job on these cabs. I don't need 15's after all

 

[ahc]

@somaramos What Arkham head is that sitting on your Baer cabs?

 

[somaramos]

That is a custom 40 watt amp that you can order from a Micah. He makes a 70 watt as well.