• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Band volume rant. We are our own worst enemy.

Buy a digital mixer like the Behringer XR18 or X32 -- it makes it really easy to run IEMs and individual monitor mixes. Start a band where the goal is to have as close to no stage volume as possible. That could mean electronic drums and digital guitar rigs like the Kemper Profiler or Avid. If the guitarists insist on amps & cabs, it's gotta be bedroom volume and mic'd into the PA. Volume's gotta come thru their IEMs, not their amps. It can be done. If you're up front about it when searching for band mates, you may find some people who have the same mindset that you do about volume.

I have that exact same scenario in my band. We started out with me playing a 500w full stack and the guitars on 212s. The drummer had a monitor setup with a sub, a 19" rack with a crossover and a poweramp and a 12" top to make up for playing edrums.
Then IEM came and everything changed. last gig, both guitars were on single 12s with those lunchbox heads that do less than 20 watts and I'm playing 50 watts into a single 12, too. Mostly for the singers because they don't have decent IEMs. One of the guitarists even ordered one of those new multi effect boards to try out going ampless. Everyone in the band is very keen on keeping the stage sound quiet. When FOH tells us one of the instruments is too loud on stage, the speaker gets turned around or the amp gets turned down without any hesitation.
It's amazing to see something like this happen.

A band I was in before that had a strict BL on guitar. He never turned up his amp. When he was feeling that his guitar was not loud enough, he simply made everyone else turn down. That was nice, too. The only band I never used hearing protection with.
 
Excessive volume is the number one reason I am a retired BarStar. I long ago lost interest in being "that" band. I lost too much of my hearing to loud stage and rehearsal room volume. I told the last electric band I was in if they didn't turn down in the tiny rehearsal space, I would be quitting. They didn't, and I quit after the next show. It was a very successful tribute band at that time, and I didn't want to leave, but I also didn't want to destroy my ability to continue being a musician.
 
I departed a previous band as keyboard player because we were too loud. I had wanted to step up my vocal contribution but was struggling. The high SPL was screwing with my ability to discern pitch. That point was driven home the first night I began a monthly gig in a house band for an open mic. I was singing stuff well that I had never song before, and it felt good doing so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr_Moo
A problem is finding a drummer who owns the plexiglass gobos and having the room to deploy them on some stages. And if you’re using them, then mic’ing the kit, checking it, and pulling it into the monitor mix.
Here's our experience. YMMV...
We rented a drum shield (4 2'x5' panels) from L&M in Canada for 13 bucks for the weekend. Since we were already renting PA gear, adding this to the list was trivial.
We miked the kick to send to FOH, but we didn't need any reinforcement on stage, as the drums were still easily audible to us. For recording purposes, at a minimum, an overhead mic would be needed, but for the hall we were playing, the drums with just a kick mic worked fine. It is a regular sized community hall that holds ~250 people with a full stage.
PHOTO-2018-11-05-13-49-03.jpg
 
Here's our experience. YMMV...
We rented a drum shield (4 2'x5' panels) from L&M in Canada for 13 bucks for the weekend. Since we were already renting PA gear, adding this to the list was trivial.
We miked the kick to send to FOH, but we didn't need any reinforcement on stage, as the drums were still easily audible to us. For recording purposes, at a minimum, an overhead mic would be needed, but for the hall we were playing, the drums with just a kick mic worked fine. It is a regular sized community hall that holds ~250 people with a full stage.
View attachment 3284182

As a former beer league hockey player, I have to say I love the idea of putting the drummer in a penalty box.
 
Learn to play.

ahhh, I see you got the point!

As a former beer league hockey player, I have to say I love the idea of putting the drummer in a penalty box.

That's what one sound company we worked with back East called the lexan shields on an old gig. There was a smaller 3x3 ish one they called "the baffle of shame" for offending guitar cabs.
 
This was one huge complaint I had about previous bands. I put my amp near the drummer and wore ear filters. With my volume low, I could still hear the bass fine. The cymbal wash was the worst, but the guitar stacks were a close second. We had a huge PA only running vocals, and the PA was cranked up just to keep up with the band’s volume. Insane. No one would turn down - or if they did, it would slowly creep back up.

Today, powerful amps and large cabinets are cheap to buy - so bands can play louder and louder.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr_Moo
It's tough when you play in a hard rock/punk rock type of band where it's stylistically appropriate for the drummer to play with a heavy hand, especially if you play originals. These days I think the market for this type of thing might be niche enough that it nearly doesn't exist.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr_Moo
My wife uses these. They sound like poo-poo and are only good for practice. I tried miking them up with EQ, gates, comp, etc and ended up with louder poo-poo.

My answer? V-drums. Awesome sound at any volume. And a drummer without a precious attitude. And they’re looking and sounding better than ever. Unfortunately, still a little pricey.

 

Attachments

  • upload_2019-1-15_16-41-7.jpg
    upload_2019-1-15_16-41-7.jpg
    56.2 KB · Views: 26
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: LBS-bass
Here's our experience. YMMV...
We rented a drum shield (4 2'x5' panels) from L&M in Canada for 13 bucks for the weekend. Since we were already renting PA gear, adding this to the list was trivial.
We miked the kick to send to FOH, but we didn't need any reinforcement on stage, as the drums were still easily audible to us. For recording purposes, at a minimum, an overhead mic would be needed, but for the hall we were playing, the drums with just a kick mic worked fine. It is a regular sized community hall that holds ~250 people with a full stage.
View attachment 3284182
Promising! I don’t know if I could rent the shields in the US. Does GC rent PA gear and plexiglass drums shields?
 
you must be a Texan.

Ha! Nope, there are a lot of venues here, and the Variety is the smallest venue dedicated to music. It serves food and drink but music is the main draw. Below that are the bar-venues, where you could show up to get a drink and/or see a show. The Tabernacle, which seems tiny and has three floors, holds over twice that of the Variety.

My point was that Wilson was playing at a venue that, at best, held 1100 people and his sound was like he was playing a very large hall. His volume would work for the Fox, State Farm Arena, or Infinite Energy Arena - all close to or over 5,000 - but definitely did not there.

I've heard some loud bands at the Variety - Blue Oyster Cult and They Might Be Giants come to mind - but Wilson blew them all away, sound-wise.
 
I used to be that a-hole guitarist who needed two 100watt half stacks to get "my (stereo) sound," fighting with the sound guys who wanted me to turn down so they could mic the amps

I now play bass in a worship band with zero stage volume and in ears. I can crank my bass and pan and lower what I don't need to key in on (even down to the non hi-hat cymbals). between that and playing to a click track, it's been a revelation!

listening to live music is mainly a burden because my ears are too critical
my old bassist is in a band that I used to enjoy seeing, but now they're so loud they sound like CHHHHRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKK
 
I agree. I've left bars because the band is too loud and it's just a wall of sound. My band is a hard/punk rock trio and I only use the PA for Vocals only. I've never had to mic the guitar or drums playing at bars. And my friends band was playing in one of the same bars playing similar music and they had a whole drum kit miced and a marshal 4x12 miced and a giant Traynor tube amp. Couldn't hear the vocal at all no matter where you stood in the bar.
 
This would get it done for most bands. The drum shield does two things.

1) It blocks some of the sound coming off the drums.

2) It reflects a lot of that sound back at the drummer. Usually this forces them to play a little softer because they are blowing their own ears out.

It's not their fault. Drums are naturally loud. A rock drummer with a very light touch sounds like crap to me.

But if you somewhat isolate the drums, the rest of us can take it down a notch.

I saw a drum shield for the first time at a bar in Soho, London, sometime last year. A Motown band but in a genteel type setting so they wanted to keep the volume at a conversational level. I was pretty blown away by the concept and it worked amazingly.
 
So, here I sit, looking for a decent band. I don't really care at this point about the genre (rock, blues, modern country, 90's country, etc.). I only care about the quality of the players. If the music's right on, I'm happy enough. I just don't want to do an acoustic duo/trio.

So if I join a band, where are we going to play? Why the lack of places to play?
There have been many threads discussing the decling band scene, but something that I think has contributed a great deal to the demise of the club scene is:

VOLUME.

The last five bands I've played with were always way too loud. All bands had decent PA support, including subs. The same thing happens all the time....the stage volume is excrutiating, so nobody can hear the vocal monitors, and yet everybody is in the main PA cranked up.
All the bands I've heard around here at the few venues that still have R&R/Country/Metal bands have all been simply too loud, to the point where you can't hear anything except a wall of noise.
Even the worship bands I've heard are all too loud. I hear complaints from all the people running sound in churches, and I hear the same complaint over and over; the stage volume is too loud.
I talked to a club owner a few weeks ago who was having problems with acoustic acts bveing too loud.
He actually told me some acts bring a PA that's too big. He can't be at every show. The people that work for him are telling him they aren't having success in getting the people to turn down.

From the mid 60's to the mid 70's, we used a decent vocal-only PA. Stage volume sometimes got out of hand (OK, most of the time), but since there wasn't the kind of PA support most bands have these days,
it just wasn't as bad. If you could hear the vocals, we figured we were doing something right.

It's getting to the point where most places are too small to run everything through FOH, but bands still do.
It simply sounds like crap.

VOLUME. I realize it's not the only reason the scene is shrinking, but people do not want to have their hair and scarf being blown backwards like the old Memorex commercial, if you're old enough to remember that. Good visual.

Now I need to find a band with decent players who don't play too loud.
It ain't happening, I'm afraid. That's the frustrating part. I'm starting to tell myself it isn't worth it for many reasons:
1. Talent pool is thin
2. No places to play
3. Idiosyncracies of band members
4. Lousy communication
5. Members' failure to learn material
6. etc. x 20

Rant over. Thanks.

We have always been a loud band as well and we just decided to go all in on a new PA system and we all committed to IEM's. The digital mixer we bought supports individual mixes for each person, so my hope is that once we learn to set our own mix and the FOH mix, we can just rely on the PA to deliver it to the audience without the need for an individual to "turn up" so one of us can hear them.

I have heard that everyone going IEM helps with volume level but I guess time will tell. I know they take some getting use to but I am stoked!

Good Luck!
 
  • Like
Reactions: JRA