Banished to the DI Zone

[agedhorse]

nothing makes up for a real rig, or the control a real rig affords you on a gig with assorted dodgy variables like the ones you mentioned. I'm merely responding from the viewpoint that the luxury of a rig is not afforded, and as such, this is my suggestion for how to retain as much control and desired tone as possible, given being hamstrung by not having a rig present. But yeah, lots of crap monitors and sub par soundmen out there. Can't really get around that.

Sure you can get around it... play better gigs that have better PAs provided and better sound gigs.

With regard to all those crap monitors and crap sound guys, from a sound guy perspective your statement could be rewritten that there are a lot of crap bands and crap bass players out there... and if a sound company doesn't want to deal with that, they too need to step up their game and get better gigs.

 

[onosson]

I disliked the idea of DI-ing my bass for a long time, all the way through recording my band's first 2 albums. Then when we got to produce a major label album, our producer had me record both DI and amp signals. And I listened to them. And they got mixed properly.

I now insist on using strictly a DI signal in every recording situation.

Edit: On another positive, you get to sit in the control room when recording if you want

 

[Relsom]

It seems like the only time I sound like me is at rehearsal.

I'm going ampless even at rehearsal these days. I've heard recent show recordings and surprized to hear that I sound better than me. I have all the confidence in the world of our sound guy.
I still bring a rig but stays in the car unless it's a coffee house and we plan on an abbreviated PA.

 

[J.Wolf]

Sure you can get around it... play better gigs that have better PAs provided and better sound gigs.

With regard to all those crap monitors and crap sound guys, from a sound guy perspective your statement could be rewritten that there are a lot of crap bands and crap bass players out there... and if a sound company doesn't want to deal with that, they too need to step up their game and get better gigs.

Theres crap everything. My point was that rebutting the idea that you can get better results going direct if you resource yourself with a good DI and a cab sim by saying that some monitors and soundmen and crap, is missing the point, and throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

i.e. Why get a decent rig? some rooms are horrible for acoustics. Why bother getting a decent setup on your bass? you're just gonna play a cold gig in the winter and your hands arent going to do exactly what you want them to.

Why are you and I always at odds on TB Andy? lol

 

[socialleper]

The biggest revolutions in DI's is happening now, especially with guitarists, with the advent of Helix/Kemper/Ax ite-FX/Headrush/etc.

I'm just starting to review these. I'm not a guitar player, so I've never heard of them. Are there bass emulators as well? I'd love to be able to transition from a Ampeg rig, to a GK, to an Aguilar with the click of some buttons like guitar players do.

 

[agedhorse]

Why are you and I always at odds on TB Andy? lol

Perhaps being on the road for 40 years dealing with bands and real world conditions has refined my perspective a bit?

 

[J.Wolf]

Perhaps being on the road for 40 years dealing with bands and real world conditions has refined my perspective a bit?

Yeah perhaps. I'll take my 20 years experience and go home. I'll get back to you with valuable insight when I'm 60.

 

[JimmyM]

Fair enough, I haven’t had a bass cab miked as long as I can remember, nor do I recall a better response when I did. I totally agree it’s up to the sound guy... but it’s a lot more time consuming to properly mic a bass cab than a guitar cab.

That's not true, either. Takes a few seconds more to set up a mic and a stand than a DI. Then you put the mic in the middle of a cone and you're done.

 

[socialleper]

That's not true, either. Takes a few seconds more to set up a mic and a stand than a DI. Then you put the mic in the middle of a cone and you're done.

Agreed, this is a bit of a dodge. Drums and guitars are mic'ed live and they can be set up in 10 minutes between bands. It isn't rocket science. A studio might be different, but live, everyone is getting the quick version of a set up.

 

[Dr_Benway]

Thanks for this discussion. I just happened to start a new thread, called best bass DIs. Would love anyone’s thoughts. I did mention that Motown but lt its own proprietary, sort of secret in house DI. I believe that it’s now sold under some name or another.
Anyway, I’m new to trying digital recording,(PTools) have old p and j basses(62 and a fretlessed 70 and a j bass I don’t play much, bad neck, inherited that one).
Any thoughts on your fav DIs would be appreciated. Just for recording. Currently using radial j48s, as passive bass means active DI. Clearly better than the direct out of my Ampeg class D head. Any thoughts, ideas welcome. Thanks a lot,
Sk

I put up a link to the Mowtown DI. It's pricey, but sounds great. Demeter made (not sure if it still does) an incredible sounding tube DI.

 

[agedhorse]

Yeah perhaps. I'll take my 20 years experience and go home. I'll get back to you with valuable insight when I'm 60.

When you work with thousands of acts, your perspective changes. It's about as real world as it gets.

 

[Wasnex]

Agreed, this is a bit of a dodge. Drums and guitars are mic'ed live and they can be set up in 10 minutes between bands. It isn't rocket science. A studio might be different, but live, everyone is getting the quick version of a set up.

In my experience it takes a bit more than 10 minutes to mic drums and guitar if you want to do it well. Just setting up the mics takes longer than 10 minutes if you do the full kit.

 

[micguy]

I put up a link to the Mowtown DI. It's pricey, but sounds great. Demeter made (not sure if it still does) an incredible sounding tube DI.

I'd suggest that, though it's pricey for a DI, it's cheaper than any decent amp, far easier to transport, probably much more reliable, and probably far more consistent. If you want a bit of tube tone, it's a very viable option.

 

[micguy]

Yeah perhaps. I'll take my 20 years experience and go home. I'll get back to you with valuable insight when I'm 60.

Careful - some of us are 60. And yes, we (hopefully) have valuable insight to share with the "youngsters" (anyone under 50).

 

[Wasnex]

A J48 is a very good choice as a transparent DI - nothing wrong with that. You just have to make sure the hi pass isn't engaged if you want real low end out of your bass. It's only real weak point (and it isn't that weak even there) is that it has a relatively low input impedance (220 kOhms), which some passive basses might not like. If you're looking to unload your pickups (meaning you'll get more high mid frequency cut form some passive basses), a Countryman 85 will do that very well.

FYI...Radial PZDI is pretty much a J48 with an expanded feature set including switchable input impedance (220K, 1Meg, 10Meg), variable HPF (5Hz-500Hz), buffered/parallel thru (switchable), LPF (switchable at 3kHz), etc.

PZ-DI - Radial Engineering

 

[J.Wolf]

Careful - some of us are 60. And yes, we (hopefully) have valuable insight to share with the "youngsters" (anyone under 50).

I’m 40 with 20 years of professional experience, but apparently that may not be enough to have a credible opinion.

When I’m 60, you’ll be 80. So I’ll have a credible opinion by then. But then you guys will be 80 and have 20 years on me. So my insights will come up short again I suppose. Lol

 

[J.Wolf]

When you work with thousands of acts, your perspective changes. It's about as real world as it gets.

Must be nice to be the only guy in the room with something to offer.

 

[micguy]

I’m 40 with 20 years of professional experience, but apparently that may not be enough to have a credible opinion.

When I’m 60, you’ll be 80. So I’ll have a credible opinion by then. But then you guys will be 80 and have 20 years on me. So my insights will come up short again I suppose. Lol

I had nothing to do with my birth timing - entirely my parent's fault. But yes, when we die, you are encouraged to catch up.

 

[Wasnex]

Must be nice to be the only guy in the room with something to offer.

I don't know...I would say you have made some valuable contributions. Why not move on and make more.

 

[seamonkey]

For those looking to try a DI, you may already have a great one on your existing head or one on a pedal.
There seems to be a lot of praise for transformers or tubes in DI's but there are some excellent designs that don't include either.

Maybe some things to look for in a DI:
Look for: Ground lift - once in a while a sound engineer may need it.
Look for: Pre/Post but talk to your sound engineer, and don't go toggling it after you've set up and have done a sound test.
Look for: Phantom power compliant - it doesn't need to be phantom powered but it should not have a problem working with phantom power existing on the cable.

Many FOH systems have PC's attached and the sound engineer will likely have a few cab simulations available. Or you can bring your own impulse Response on a thumb drive. Check with the engineer well ahead of the show.