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Banished to the DI Zone

#123
selowitch said:
In the studio, wouldn't it be optimal to record two bass tracks simultaneously (of the same bass and player), one DI and one from a miked amp? That way the engineer can use the relative volume of the two tracks to dial in the sound he or she wants during mixdown.
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Its the way I have been recorded the last few years.
 
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#126
selowitch said:
In the studio, wouldn't it be optimal to record two bass tracks simultaneously (of the same bass and player), one DI and one from a miked amp? That way the engineer can use the relative volume of the two tracks to dial in the sound he or she wants during mixdown.
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Last time I was in the studio I use a clean DI, a DI line off of my preamp pedal and had 2 mics on the cabinet. They don't all get used but it's nice to have options
 
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#127
selowitch said:
In the studio, wouldn't it be optimal to record two bass tracks simultaneously (of the same bass and player), one DI and one from a miked amp? That way the engineer can use the relative volume of the two tracks to dial in the sound he or she wants during mixdown.
Click to expand...

Yes, multiple tracks are the norm, pick and choose parts and proportions later, along with time alignment, effects, and if the tracks are unusable for some reason, they may be re-recorded by you or in some cases by another player.

jnewmark said:
The DI's on most bass amps, are they active ?
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By definition, they all are. I haven't seen anything else used.
 
#130
micguy said:
Yes - definitely. I can't imagine why an amp designer wouldn't use the preamp circuitry that has to be there to drive the power amp to make the DI perform better - even if there's a transformer in the DI, having known impedance driving it is a big help.
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I use a Peavey Tour 450; the DI out is a simple balanced line driver / buffer taken right from the input jack, pre-preamp, pre-EQ, pre everything. None of the controls affect the DI send. In fact, phantom power will power the DI circuit even with the amp powered off.
 
#131
socialleper said:
@agedhorse @lz4005
There is a difference between what sounds "cleanest" and what sounds "real" isn't there?
Much of what makes a guitar amp and cab sound right in a recording is all the imperfections, or rather the character of it. Mic placement, rooms, etc are about trying to recreate the sonic finger print of a live performance of a guitar. The choice of amps and cabs are to purposefully color the guitar's tone.

I am starting to feel that too much clarity in a bass signal doesn't do the bass any favors in some cases. Me of a year ago would punch me of now in the nads for saying that, but I'm starting to change my mind.
What is the rig everyone gets all happy in their pants about? The SVT-CL and 810 fridge. Neither are pure, or uncolored. After mucking about with sims, IRs, and an actual 810 in a rehearsal space, I've realized that the imperfect, slightly scooped, and a little wooly tone of that beloved rig is what makes it sit "in the mix" so well. It finds that sweet spot in the lows that aren't too subby, and the lack of super crisp high mids is pretty forgiving. When I recorded a bass line straight out of my Mesa D800, it had trouble locking in with a guitar riff played through an Orange sim\IR. When I put it through a SVT-CL + 810 sim\IR, it grabbed on to it perfectly. It sounded more "real" even thought it was going through some digital voodoo because it was trying to emulate what we are used to hearing when we see a live band. A head right into a DI or board, without a cab, without any room noise, isn't what we are used to hearing, so it doesn't sound "natural."

Does that make any sense?
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I'm with you man. Our producer was historically a tech death guy. DI for bass all the way l forced him to mic my cab, a vintage ampeg 810 with higher wattage drivers, and he wouldn't go back if you paid him. He saved the tone with his Kemper. It rules. He actually bought that cabinet from me. Something just more real about it (still too loose for tech death but we made a made a believer out of him). Live, I ask for a mic if I can get it. I just bought a countryman or whatever that speaker DI so I can get my amp involved in the live setting.
 
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#132
DI track is helpful in the studio.
And helpful for most live players.

If amplifier tone and speaker tone are preferred. You just use a microphone.
It's pretty easy. a Soundman that is well versed in genres will mic a cab no problem. The other 80% are whiners.
 
#133
socialleper said:
How did this happen to bass players? How did we almost all universally get shoved into the DI zone while our guitar playing brethren still get mic'ed without question?
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I for one do not miss lugging around 70+ pounds of amplification equipment.

As much as people on TB love old recordings, where they mic'ed the cabs, no one bats an eye at having that part of our tone taken away from us.
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While I will defer to those with more extensive experience....

1) A good DI should produce the tone you want (or very close to it).

2) Controlling tone in a live situation is... well... a lost cause most of the time. OK, if you're hired as the new bassist in U2, you will get what you want. Most of us here? Not so much.

3) The only thing the audience and band cares about is that you have a decent tone... and I think it's hard to mess that up these days.

Hours are spent tweaking cab placement, selecting mics, and placing the mic at recording studios. Bass? "Here's cable, just plug into the board."
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Sounds good to me. :D
 
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#134
As a sound guy bass is tricky. For example I usually don’t worry of the guitar amp is at the back of the stage, but I do delay my subs to match the distance between the bass amp and the subs so the bass frequencies don’t get out of phase out front. Bass can be more prone to feed back because low frequencies tend to be omnidirectional and work their way into the polar patterns of mics easier, especially if they’re not designed for bass. Low end feedback can be destructive so sometimes it’s better to just prevent it.

Another option that can work well is mixing a DI to get the low frequencies and a mic with a high pass filter on it to get the color/character of the sound, but a lot of FOH engineers are either too lazy or too busy to set that up.
 
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#135
The same is slowly happening with Guitar as well believe it or not. Most of the National touring rock/metal bands we’ve opened for over the last couple years didn’t mic any amps. They ran Axe Fx or kempers direct and had in ears. In some cases I thought it was terrible. Particularly at one show where the touring band was like half the volume of the other bands that played.
 

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