Barefaced ONE10 - can it compete with a good 1x12?

[Ralferator]

Hi,
i am still searching for a bass cabinet to bring from germany to brasil. Here in brasil bass equipment is more than twice the price than in germany and they don't have so much variety too and since i will soon visit germany i want to bring a bass cabinet.
I want to use it standalone for my not so loud band for smaller gigs up to 100 people in the audience. I think a good 1x12 would be good enough for me, so i am thinking of bringing just the speaker and building a small 1x12 with an Eminence Basslite S2012, Deltalite 2512, Kappalite 3012HO or Faital Pro PR300. But since i am not very good in building cabs and upgrading a used cheap cab maybe also won't turn out so nice i am thinking about the Barefaced ONE10. I could even fit it in my luggage.

I was reading through some threads but am not really sure how much i can expect from that cab. They advertise it as beeing as loud as a 1x15 but i can't believe it. But maybe it competes with a good 1x12? Does it? Or would a Basslite S2012 in about 50 liters cabinet easily outperform it? Or the deltalite?

What is your experiences with that cab. Does it compete with your 1x12?

Thank you very much in advance!

 

[micguy]

Output of a bass cabinet is proportional to the displacement of the cone multiplied by its cone area (OK, the port contributes, but this is a very good first approximation). If you look at the effective cone diameter of a speaker, you lose area faster on a small speaker than on a large one - a 12 inch woofer might have an 10 inch cone (losing an inch all around the edge); a 10 inch speaker by the same logic would have about an 8 inch cone.

Surface area of the cone goes with the diameter squared, so our ten inch woofer will have .8 (squared) the cone are of the 12 inch one - 64 % of its cone area. If we're nice and round up a bit to make the math simpler, we can say the 10 inch woofer has about 2/3rds the cone area of the 12 inch one. So....to have the same output, it will have to move 50% further to get the product of cone area and displacement to be the same (1.5 x 2/3rds = 1)

So, will that 110 keep up with a 112? Only if it has 50% more excursion than the 112, and you have the power to drive it there.

 

[Ralferator]

Output of a bass cabinet is proportional to the displacement of the cone multiplied by its cone area (OK, the port contributes, but this is a very good first approximation). If you look at the effective cone diameter of a speaker, you lose area faster on a small speaker than on a large one - a 12 inch woofer might have an 10 inch cone (losing an inch all around the edge); a 10 inch speaker by the same logic would have about an 8 inch cone.

Surface area of the cone goes with the diameter squared, so our ten inch woofer will have .8 (squared) the cone are of the 12 inch one - 64 % of its cone area. If we're nice and round up a bit to make the math simpler, we can say the 10 inch woofer has about 2/3rds the cone area of the 12 inch one. So....to have the same output, it will have to move 50% further to get the product of cone area and displacement to be the same (1.5 x 2/3rds = 1)

So, will that 110 keep up with a 112? Only if it has 50% more excursion than the 112, and you have the power to drive it there.

When i last visited the barefaced website, i remember that the driver of ONE10 was advertised as having much more excursion than other drivers. Sadly the website seems to be down since some time, at least i can't reach it (from brasil). Also it seems like it was developed to do exactly what it needs to make a 4 string bass sound fat, so probably it got designed in a way that focuses the power on the frequencies that make the bass sound fat and loud and trying to not waste energy with frequencies that only make it muddy - but that is just my guess. Also the barefaced cabs seem to use another port tuning approach - not usual bass reflex.
So i really wonder how the One10 works live compared to a good 112. I have 300 Watts of Power at 8Ohms with my Peavey Minimax 500 amp to drive it.

 

[micguy]

Speaker manufactures are always saying things that imply their speakers aren't subject to the same laws that dictate performance of other speakers. The Barefaced site talks about how their speaker in this case is a very efficient speaker, but... the system sensitivity they quote is 95dB (I'm assuming at 1 watt, one meter). That is a bit on the lower side for a musical instrument speaker - it's certainly not "very efficient". They don't (from what I see) quote the xmax (the excursion of the driver they use). So, believe what you want, but I don't see any data there that indicates it's anything other than a decently designed 110.

I have a 110 that I use for certain gigs. I know the xmax excursion of the thing, I know its efficiency, and I used a bigger cabinet than Barefaced (which, in this case, as mine is the same efficiency, got me better low end extension). It's great for "acoustic" gigs, where I have to keep up with a piano - it works fine for that. If I need a rig with a bit more heft, I have a 112 I built (also with good excursion). That does...more.

 

[mmbongo]

Simple answer is no. Even Alex has explained that it takes a pair of One 10's to compare to a single 12.

It's a fantastic 10, but it's not a 12.

Also make sure you have the website address right, it's now www.barefacedaudio.com

 

[friskinator]

The One10 is an excellent cab. You would be surprised at what it can do, and from what you've described, I think it would suit your needs well.

 

[Ralferator]

When i last visited the barefaced website, i remember that the driver of ONE10 was advertised as having much more excursion than other drivers. Sadly the website seems to be down since some time, at least i can't reach it (from brasil). Also it seems like it was developed to do exactly what it needs to make a 4 string bass sound fat, so probably it got designed in a way that focuses the power on the frequencies that make the bass sound fat and loud and trying to not waste energy with frequencies that only make it muddy - but that is just my guess. Also the barefaced cabs seem to use another port tuning approach - not usual bass reflex. So i really wonder how the One10 works live compared to a good 112.

Speaker manufactures are always saying things that imply their speakers aren't subject to the same laws that dictate performance of other speakers. The Barefaced site talks about how their speaker in this case is a very efficient speaker, but... the system sensitivity they quote is 95dB (I'm assuming at 1 watt, one meter). That is a bit on the lower side for a musical instrument speaker - it's certainly not "very efficient". They don't (from what I see) quote the xmax (the excursion of the driver they use). So, believe what you want, but I don't see any data there that indicates it's anything other than a decently designed 110.

I have a 110 that I use for certain gigs. I know the xmax excursion of the thing, I know its efficiency, and I used a bigger cabinet than Barefaced (which, in this case, as mine is the same efficiency, got me better low end extension). It's great for "acoustic" gigs, where I have to keep up with a piano - it works fine for that. If I need a rig with a bit more heft, I have a 112 I built (also with good excursion). That does...more.

I only saw a frequency response of the Two10 and it looked like it doesn't have a rising response to the high mids but a lot going on in between 150 and 400 hz, while it seems like a lot of cabinets have their maximum spl in higher regions. To me 95 db sounds very efficient for a 110 if it is in a region where there is actually usable bass frequencies playing. So probably the One10 also has a lot of power between 150 and 400 hz what makes it seem louder than it is - that is what i guess. But as long as it sounds loud and fat in a band setting i don't mind if it's not real rumbling low bass. I just don't know if it does this as good as a good 112. I know it is expecting a lot from a single 110.
By the way - can you reach the barefaced website?

 

[Ralferator]

Simple answer is no. Even Alex has explained that it takes a pair of One 10's to compare to a single 12.

It's a fantastic 10, but it's not a 12.

Also make sure you have the website address right, it's now www.barefacedaudio.com

Ok, if even the builder says it can't compete, then i guess it can't. I only wonder (well not so much) why they advertised it as if it could and there are raving reviews that also say it could compete. I can't reach the website - can you?

 

[Ralferator]

The One10 is an excellent cab. You would be surprised at what it can do, and from what you've described, I think it would suit your needs well.

So did you compare it to a 112? And which one? How does it compare?

 

[mmbongo]

Ok, if even the builder says it can't compete, then i guess it can't. I only wonder (well not so much) why they advertised it as if it could and there are raving reviews that also say it could compete. I can't reach the website - can you?

Not sure why anyone would say that, you cannot defy physics. Plus as a former One10 owner I can guarantee you that it is not equal to a 12.

Yes www.barefacedaudio.com is working. I checked the numbers while I was there...max output of the One10 is 119db. Max output of a SuperMidget 12 is 128db. So clearly the One10 cannot equal a 12. If it could, they wouldn't make the 12

 

[Ralferator]

Ok, if even the builder says it can't compete, then i guess it can't. I only wonder (well not so much) why they advertised it as if it could and there are raving reviews that also say it could compete.

Not sure why anyone would say that, you cannot defy physics. Plus as a former One10 owner I can guarantee you that it is not equal to a 12.

Yes www.barefacedaudio.com is working. I checked the numbers while I was there...max output of the One10 is 119db. Max output of a SuperMidget 12 is 128db. So clearly the One10 cannot equal a 12. If it could, they wouldn't make the 12

Ok so it seems like the website is not accessable from brasil. The SuperMidget seems to have a very strong 12" speaker so i guess it is much stronger than a cab with a Basslite S2012. Do you think that a cab with a Basslite S2012 or a Beta12 (i had one before) would still beat the One10? If it would be as loud as the Beta12 in 50 liters, it could be good enough for me

 

[mmbongo]

Ok so it seems like the website is not accessable from brasil. The SuperMidget seems to have a very strong 12" speaker so i guess it is much stronger than a cab with a Basslite S2012. Do you think that a cab with a Basslite S2012 or a Beta12 (i had one before) would still beat the One10? If it would be as loud as the Beta12 in 50 liters, it could be good enough for me

I can't give you a good answer as I don't have any experience with any of those drivers so I'll leave that up to someone else.

But I can look at the numbers. The Basslite S2012 is rated at 99db while the One10 is rated at 95db. So a pair of One10's would be rated at 98db. So, even a pair of One10's is still not as loud as a single Basslite S2012...on paper. It also depends a lot on your enclosure design. Even if the Basslite speaker itself is twice as loud, it will sound like junk in the wrong enclosure and the One10 will easily outperform it. So it all depends!

 

[Ralferator]

I can't give you a good answer as I don't have any experience with any of those drivers so I'll leave that up to someone else.

But I can look at the numbers. The Basslite S2012 is rated at 99db while the One10 is rated at 95db. So a pair of One10's would be rated at 98db. So, even a pair of One10's is still not as loud as a single Basslite S2012...on paper. It also depends a lot on your enclosure design. Even if the Basslite speaker itself is twice as loud, it will sound like junk in the wrong enclosure and the One10 will easily outperform it. So it all depends!

Thank you for your help! When i look at the frequency response of the Basslite, it looks like it's below 97 db below 600 hz and it seems like the One10 can handle more power than the Basslite. So the One10 could maybe theoretically still beat the basslite.

 

[Tim1]

Ok, if even the builder says it can't compete, then i guess it can't. I only wonder (well not so much) why they advertised it as if it could and there are raving reviews that also say it could compete. I can't reach the website - can you?[/QUOTE

So did you compare it to a 112? And which one? How does it compare?

Ok, if even the builder says it can't compete, then i guess it can't. I only wonder (well not so much) why they advertised it as if it could and there are raving reviews that also say it could compete. I can't reach the website - can you?

To clarify this, the builder(Alex) was comparing it to his twelves which are quite unique in their design. The One10 is unbelievably loud and present for its size. Sometimes using your ears can be more credible than specs.

 

[mmbongo]

To clarify this, the builder(Alex) was comparing it to his twelves which are quite unique in their design. The One10 is unbelievably loud and present for its size. Sometimes using your ears can be more credible than specs.

That's why I can't give a definitive answer. Ears and enclosures make a huge difference. I just know my direct experience with my One10 vs. the 12's I have on hand (Barefaced, AudioKinesis, Mesa Subway). No, the One10 alone does not have similar output to any of them. Of these, the Mesa Subway actually has the most output. It's also the largest of the bunch.

 

[jthisdell]

I have a One 10 and a Bergantino CN112. The One 10 is a great cab, super portable, I've played small gigs with it and a ton of practices and jams. But I prefer the extended range both low and high of the 112. So I don't know if the One 10 can out produce a more mainstream 112 but it does not beat what I consider a premium 112.

 

[74hc]

I don't like their website as it's full of marketing speak. Even has a video of someone holding up an Eminence designed and built driver as if it's their own.

Claiming leading numbers in Vd and Xmax doesn't tell the full story. I'm not sure I want a 12" driver with 550cc Vd and an Xmax that exceeds the Kappalite 3012LF, looking at what Greenboy had to do with 3012LF.

There's probably a good reason why Mesa went with the HO version.

 

[Tim1]

I have a One 10 and a Bergantino CN112. The One 10 is a great cab, super portable, I've played small gigs with it and a ton of practices and jams. But I prefer the extended range both low and high of the 112. So I don't know if the One 10 can out produce a more mainstream 112 but it does not beat what I consider a premium 112.

Agree with you, but the Berg is hardly a "mainstream" 112 and I would not expect the Barefaced One 10 to outperform it. It is in much the same elite or boutique range as Barefaced and Audiokinesis twelves. No doubt there are twelves around which the One 10 can defeat, the issue is that on this forum many of us tend to own boutique gear and perhaps think of it as mainstream.

 

[Tim1]

That's why I can't give a definitive answer. Ears and enclosures make a huge difference. I just know my direct experience with my One10 vs. the 12's I have on hand (Barefaced, AudioKinesis, Mesa Subway). No, the One10 alone does not have similar output to any of them. Of these, the Mesa Subway actually has the most output. It's also the largest of the bunch.

Your comment on the Subway 12 is intriguing and I have heard it before. Without wishing to sidetrack this thread, how do you find it compares tonally to the Barefaced and AudioKinesis?

 

[Kenan]

I have a Barefaced 1x10 and it's a great cab, but it's really not enough for playing in a club with a drummer (without PA support). It can be enough for low volume coffee house gigs though. I also have a Markbass 1x12 and it can go a lot farther than the 1x10 in terms of volume and presence.