Baseball season 2007

[louieeadg]

Plus, this year you have to take some consolation in the fact that you are chasing the Cubs, right?

Ouch...

That was actually Pinella's first order of business when he got to Chicago. One of his things was, "You guys are Chicago Cubs damnit!!" I remember him saying something else like..."Curse?! No there's not a curse. There's been some horrible baseball, but no curse!"

 

[SoComSurfing]

Definitely the longest thread I've ever started. Looks like the Braves are going to take it tonight; currently 7-4, bottom 8. Of course, with the Atlanta bullpen in the game, it wouldn't be that big a shocker if they blew it, even if it is against the Marlins. With the Mets and Phillies both coming to Atlanta in the coming week, I'm starting to think this will be two years without Atlanta in the playoffs. I can live with them not making it, but I just don't want to see the Mets coasting in there!

I wish the Cubs would go to Cuban. Stupid, stodgy owners.

 

[louieeadg]

Bleh...I watched it, whew hoo for you Joshua...

They made it interesting though...


Oh, and about the '76 Yanks...I was watching Bronx is burning again and I never realized all the people on that team...Reggie, Lou, Thurman, Guidry, Catfish, Willie Randolph...and Dusty Baker was playing for the Dodgers that year. And Don Sutton got the win in the first game of that series...Add Billy Martin, Yogi, and Tom Lasorda and that's a plethora of baseball brains on the field for that series!

 

[dangnewt]

3-1 Yanks, top of the 7th. Clemens pitched 6 innings of 2 hit, 1 run ball (but a few walks). Beckett struggled but has gotten out of it.

Nail-biter!

Very odd game. Clemens walked 5 in 6 innings but gave up only 2 hits and 1 run. Beckett gave up 13 hits in 6.2 and gave up only 4 runs. He was also tentative with his defensive responsibilities - I chalked it up to Roger spreading bad juju by his very presence on the mound.

The Sox almost came back in this one. There is no quit in either team. The loss of Manny hurts (he'll be out for a week) and an outfield of Coco, Hinske and Drew doesn't put the fear of God in anyone. The only good news is that it means that Jacoby Ellsbury will see a lot of playing time right off the bat - that kid will be a star soon.

If ever a situation was tailor-made for the Big Schill, it is this afternoon. He certainly doesn't want to be overshadowed by Roger.

Joshua - tell me why again this Yankee team is scrambling to make the playoffs with that lineup?

 

[dangnewt]

Bleh...I watched it, whew hoo for you Joshua...

They made it interesting though...


Oh, and about the '76 Yanks...I was watching Bronx is burning again and I never realized all the people on that team...Reggie, Lou, Thurman, Guidry, Catfish, Willie Randolph...and Dusty Baker was playing for the Dodgers that year. And Don Sutton got the win in the first game of that series...Add Billy Martin, Yogi, and Tom Lasorda and that's a plethora of baseball brains on the field for that series!

I know the rest of the country may tire of Sox - Yanks; but the games are pretty much always interesting.

Don't forget the heart of the '76 Yanks - the pride of Holyoke, Mass. - Fran Healy. With all the egos and certifiable nut jobs on that team, you need 1 or 2 sane people to keep it from imploding.

 

[Tony G]

I know the rest of the country may tire of Sox - Yanks; but the games are pretty much always interesting.

Hell, I'm tired of the Sox/Yanks media overkill, and I'm a life long Red Sox fan.... Sometimes I think the hype in these series makes it less enjoyable to watch.

 

[louieeadg]

I know the rest of the country may tire of Sox - Yanks; but the games are pretty much always interesting.

Don't forget the heart of the '76 Yanks - the pride of Holyoke, Mass. - Fran Healy. With all the egos and certifiable nut jobs on that team, you need 1 or 2 sane people to keep it from imploding.

Hey hey hey!! Don't forget the pride of Northeastern North Carolina!! Ladies and Gents, the Hall of Fame Pitcher, the FIRST Million Dollar man, a "Good Ole Boy" by every sense of the word....




Mr. Jimmy "Catfish" Hunter!!




And no, I never tire of the Sox and Yanks...yes, there are other rivalries. But this one is like Duke and UNC...its ALWAYS important.

 

[Tony G]

What's all this about then?

NEW YORK - Terry Francona was peeved this morning that a (major league baseball) security person made him show that he was wearing his uniform top in the second inning with Derek Jeter at second base.

Major League baseball's Bob Watson had asked Francona to start wearing his uniform top or at least have it on. Francona is one of several managers who doesn't wear one, but after Watson asked him to Francona has been wearing his No. 47 jersey under his top.

Francona had a long chat with Watson before yesterday's game. Francona was surpised the security person would insist on Francona showing it during the game and during a crucial aspect of the game.

We'll have more shortly.

Taken from this link: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

This just seems like a useless topic to even start a problem about. I just don't see why it is necessary for a manager to wear a jerzy with a number on it....I you want to, fine, if you don't, fine. Why the problem?

 

[dangnewt]

What's all this about then?



Taken from this link: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

This just seems like a useless topic to even start a problem about. I just don't see why it is necessary for a manager to wear a jerzy with a number on it....I you want to, fine, if you don't, fine. Why the problem?

My take is that MLB not only hates its fans, but its coaches and players as well.

Could also be NY Yankee-inspired gamesmanship - wasn't it the Yankees who called George Brett on the pine tar bat? They have a history.

Or it could be as simple as the MLB security person (no doubt a Yankee fan) indulging in some freelance gamesmanship.

I really don't like using the word "hate"; but the Yankees do seem to go out of their way to make it difficult not to hate them.

 

[Tony G]

Well, the Sox have been swept by the Yanks....simply inexcusable for the Sox. Pathetic. The Sox pitching staff looked weak, the offense has been perpetually weak....I'm not a happy sox fan, I don't care if they have been leading the division for months. The last thing the media needs is more fuel for the Sox/Yanks fire. If it's not 1918, it's 1978. It's getting old.

 

[dangnewt]

Well, the Sox have been swept by the Yanks....simply inexcusable for the Sox. Pathetic. The Sox pitching staff looked weak, the offense has been perpetually weak....I'm not a happy sox fan, I don't care if they have been leading the division for months. The last thing the media needs is more fuel for the Sox/Yanks fire. If it's not 1918, it's 1978. It's getting old.

Buck up my friend, step away from the ledge. The pitching was actually pretty good - Schilling looks to be as sharp as he is going to get. Sometimes the other team plays better over a short series - and that is all that happened. If you need a thought to take you to a happier place just think about the last time the Yankees won three in row from the Red Sox - I think it was in October of 2004.......

The games were all close - a timely hit and different call by an ump and the Sox win one or two. You do have a point about the offense - it shouldn't fall apart that much without Manny in there, but again, the Yankee pitching was very good.

It will be interesting to see what our supporters of baseball rough justice think about the ejection of Chamberlin in the 9th for the two fastballs over Youk's head.

My take is that whether or not he was trying to send a message (something that he and Saint Joe deny ) if you throw 99 MPH and you lose your control to that extent -you forfeit the privledge of throwing that afternoon and should come back when you have found your release point or control and Saint Joe can save all his "the umps need to use common sense" and "maybe the umps need some training" blather. Actually, Yankees fans should be hoping that this was a case of purposeful pitching, because if he is truly that wild when facing the pressure-packed situation of a 5 run lead in the ninth - I don't think he has the makeup to be a closer.

The Yankees seem to have reverted to their Evil Empire persona, fine with me, whatever you gets you through the night.

 

[Tony G]

I see what your getting at, but it was still a hard series to watch. I also don't really agree that pitching was that good. Becket allowed a season high hit total against him, Schilling may not have pitched too bad today, but Okajima sure showed he is hittable, and I have to say I am just really not that impressed with Dice K yet. Sure, he has a team leading strike out total, but that is all he has to show for it so far.

And what about the offense? Youk's in a slump, Drew is useless, Hinske is useless, in fact the only one in this line up that has really impressed me this year has been Pedroia. Second only to him is Lowell. Then I look at the only two hits by Red Sox batters today....and who where they by? Pedroia and Lowell... Where are the other 7 guys in the lineup?

 

[Tony G]

Getting out all my frustrations aside on this matter, I still love my team and still love baseball. Sometimes I can get a bit negative, but in other places I see the positive. I have a couple of "red sox buddies" at work that I talk to daily, and I personally really think Gagne is going to come into his own and work out well, where as my friends do not. For the better part of last year and the first 1/3 of this season, I was not a Coco Crisp fan. However, that is slowly changing. Sure, I've always thought he was a great defensive center fielder, but he has been lacking at the plate badly. It really only seems like since this past allstar break that he has been hitting better, but that doesn't seem to be the case in the immediate past...

 

[dangnewt]

And Chamberlin? It was definitely unintentional imo (what the heck was it's intent if not?). The Yanks had rolled over them, and were 2 outs away from the win. There was nothing left to prove. As a closer it also doesn't mean much to me. He's a bush rookie. A couple errant pitches are pretty meaningless.

That is EXACTLY what they want you to think. Do not go to the Dark Side, Joshua. Think about it - last inning of the last game with a big lead, no one would suspect a thing. That is how twisted the Yanks have become. It is also a sign of how completely self-deluded they are in that it was pretty obvious to many people what was going on - do they think that anyone is buying their BS anymore? Chamberlin is painting the corners at 99MPH and then two go zipping over Youk's head in the same EXACT spot. I don't know what I more pissed about - the cavalier attitude toward another player's career or the lying about it by Chamberlin and Torre. It is precisely because you have 21 year old (and 45 and 67 year old) moral midgets pitching and managing the Yankees that the umpires needed to take control. Are they supposed to wait for pitch 3 or 4 or one to actually hit him?

I do agree with you about motive being a bit of a mystery - how about Chamberlin wanting to be the big man in the city and the clubhouse - if that is what he wants to be known for, I feel sorry for the kid. It is precisely the obvious lack of a message that is the most troubling aspect of this all and the reason the umps needed to put an end to it. The whole "let the players take of things there own way" system falls apart when one team takes things too far. Even when Clemens plunks Pedroia, he used his pinpoint control to bang him on the elbow pad in the first inning with Papi coming up with one out. No problem the rest of the game by either side.

 

[dangnewt]

I see what your getting at, but it was still a hard series to watch. I also don't really agree that pitching was that good. Becket allowed a season high hit total against him, Schilling may not have pitched too bad today, but Okajima sure showed he is hittable, and I have to say I am just really not that impressed with Dice K yet. Sure, he has a team leading strike out total, but that is all he has to show for it so far.

And what about the offense? Youk's in a slump, Drew is useless, Hinske is useless, in fact the only one in this line up that has really impressed me this year has been Pedroia. Second only to him is Lowell. Then I look at the only two hits by Red Sox batters today....and who where they by? Pedroia and Lowell... Where are the other 7 guys in the lineup?

It was hard - there was also a pretty strange vibe throughout. Part of it was all the walks the Sox where getting in the last two games, it is what they have been doing all year, the difference was that they didn't get any hits behind them to bring them home - it happens. Beckett was giving up hits but not many runs - he seemed a bit out of sorts - but that was not bad pitching.

Drew is useless and not going anywhere for a while, we can only hope he will turn it around, the sooner the better.

Tomorrow will be Hinske's last at-bats and he is gone after this season. I'd rather see Ellsbury or even Moss out there.

On the good side, I think the Yankees are starting to piss off the umpires with their antics - today they got the benefit of a close call on the Youk "out of the baselines" call; then how do the Yanks react? Do they shut up, behave and take the win? No, they start throwing at people in a game that they have all but won and then insult the umpires on the field and in the interviews afterward. Do they think that the umps don't watch ESPN or read the papers, or talk to each other?

 

[louieeadg]

Becket allowed a season high hit total against him, Schilling may not have pitched too bad today...not that impressed with Dice K yet. Sure, he has a team leading strike out total, but that is all he has to show for it so far.

And what about the offense?...Drew is useless

hehe...Heeeeere we go...

Alright. Dang and gabriele, calm down. Everything will be fine. Leading up to this series, the Yankees played against some better opponents than the Sawx did...little advantage there. Yes, they looked a little lethargic but its not September yet and it was the end of a 10 day road trip, they looked like they wanted to go home...and as far as the pitching goes...I was very pleased to see the effort those three gave. Each one of them got atleast through 6 innings. That's what you want...and they all did their jobs, their team was still in the game when they left, that's all you can ever ask of a starter in the big leagues, to keep you in the game. And Beckett's outing was not that bad...yes, he gave up 12 or 13 hits...but other than the A-Rod homer, it was a bunch of singles, and not that many were smoked or anything...which means he was getting groundballs, sometimes they just find the holes.

Yes, Drew is useless. Atleast when Trot wasn't hitting he was one of those invaluable clubhouse guys...but, we're not going there again...
:scowl:

Ha...now to Chamberlain. Dang, I think you're a little harsh on the kid. He's just a kid. No, I don't like the Yankees but I don't think he should have been ejected. If he wanted to hit Youk in the head he would've hit him in the head. And it is possible he was just trying to over throw...whenever I overthrew I was horribly off up and in to righties...HOWEVER, if he did have any sort of intent, I see nothing wrong with his pitches, like I said earlier, he wasn't head-hunting. And he DEFINETELY shouldn't have been tossed, he should've been given a warning, with Torre being warned as well. Umpires have quick triggers these days...too much power.

I'll leave ya'll with this...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/070829&sportCat=mlb

I laughed for quite a while this morning...

Oh, and Joshua...give Hughes some time...Beckett was only 21 when he shut out your Yanks twice in the world series!

 

[Tony G]

Louie, while I can agree with that article, it does have a lot of sweeping generalizations. I have in a way become a self hating red sox fan as of late. My family has generations of loyal red sox fans, growing up in all parts of new england. It was only my fathers job that took us to NY state, but my choice of living would be in Central or Eastern Mass. However, the recent bloating of Red Sox nation simply has to do with thier success of the past few years. Everybody loves to be on the winning side. I've worn my red sox hat and jerzy to elementary, middle, and high school through the 80's and 90's, and received merceless torment at the likes of young Yankee fans here in my area while growing up. The Yankees always won, they had a history of winning, and the Red Sox had a history of failure. I never heard the end of it. I'm sure this was the case for many Red Sox fans as well placed out side of New England, or in Joshua's case, that side of Connecticut. Now, in my early adult hood, the Sox have acheived success, and won a world series. The years following the that world series win have been exciting as well. It has gotten to the point where the fans expect the team to win, just as it seems Yankee fans did for so long. It doesn't help they the Sox front office is paying stupid high salaries to these players, giving them super star status, and then they fall flat. The salaries Drew and Dice K are getting this year is pathetic for the way they have played.

The whole mentality of being a red sox fan has changed, and it sickens me. I remember when I could go to Fenway Park on game day, go to the box office and get great seats with no hassle. Now, if you don't get selected in some crappy online lottery to buy tickets, you either don't go or you pay a lot of money for scalped tickets. The worst part about it is, all these "fair weather fans" that have been infesting Fenway (and many other major league parks the Sox visit) are willing the pay the rediculously high prices. I remember when I was growing up when the Dallas Cowboys had their major successes, and it seemed like everyone was a Dallas fan. You don't see that any more. Well, now it seems like it is Boston's turn, and I can't wait for it to be over so I can just go to the ball park and enjoy a nice game at a reasonable price.

 

[louieeadg]

...I can't wait for it to be over so I can just go to the ball park and enjoy a nice game at a reasonable price.

Yeah, I hear ya...I wasn't trying to stab anybody, I thought it was a faily humourous article with an interesting take on a subject-that's all.

And I know EXACTLY what you're saying about the Dallas phenomenon...you def. don't see that anymore...plus a lot of them (During the emmit era) never even knew who Roger Staubach was!

The fair weather fans issue has and always will happen...its all about marketability, sadly enough.

And as far as the quote up there goes...sheesh. I don't think that will happen until Boston turns into St. Louis ($9 general admission there!)....now that's a place that truly
appreciates their fans!

 

[louieeadg]

Oh, absolutely. PH has some great stuff too, I just mean right now it's a little rattling thinking of him taking the ball in a "must win".

And don't remind me about Beckett...

haahahaah!! Sorry about the Beckett reference...I'm sure there's some Chicago fans that feel the same way!

And you're right, he's got great stuff. That Sunday night game a couple weeks ago vs. the Angels was a good showing from him...

And I wouldn't worry so much about Hughes as I would Moose and a couple of those other old bodies...the '91 Atlanta team was full of youngin's who didn't know any better than to win...[insert tomahawk chop here]

 

[louieeadg]

And the '91 Braves' youngin's didn't know any better than to win? Hmm, I guess up until Game 7 I'd agree...

Low blow...hey, atleast they were in the playoffs that year!