Bass amp modeling?

[bassicg]

Bass modeling doesn't get bought up like guitar modeling.
I'm unaware why.
Maybe, just maybe, bass players are more concerned about "tradition". Ever notice the huge "Precision Bass is the only one!" crowd?

Line 6 had a modeling bass & the only person I know who has one is Lt. Dan:

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AFAIK, the Helix has models for bass, as well as AmpliTube & other software-based modeling.

Hahaha...not our boy Lt. Dan!

 

[bucephylus]

Respectfully, I disagree with the notion the Kemper is massively expensive. A Kemper costs considerably less than many dedicated bass rigs. For instance, a new Kemper from Sweetwater is 25% less costly than a new SVT Heritage head. The current Sweetwater price for a Kemper is the same as the price for a Fender Super Bassman head. With the Kemper, you have access to the tone from multiple SVT and Bassman heads, as well as a wide variety of other amp makes. One of my favorite profiles is a HiWatt DR201, for instance. I've already modeled my SWR gear. I'm not a rep or a salesman; I'm merely suggesting a little lateral thinking on the part of bassist may go a long way toward many individuals finding an alternate means of entering tonal bliss for any gig regardless of the musical style. After trying the Kemper, and considering its capabilities, I've come to the conclusion it is perhaps the most cost efficient means of accessing a universe of useful tones. After considering the time savings in setting up, tearing down and hauling, one can see how cost efficient it really is. Again, this has been my personal experience.

Yeah, I certainly didn’t intend to imply the Kemper was TOO expensive. That wasn’t what I meant. And, if it were too expensive, they wouldn’t sell, right?

Instead, I was simply saying that they aren’t inexpensive; so, when considering one, a player such as yourself is going to look at ALL the details; and the expectations will be high.

I know some players are very happy with them. But, I’m not sure they are sufficiently compelling for everyone to start selling off those Super Bassmans. If that makes sense. I’m currently gigging in an ampless situation; so I’ve actually got more than a passing interest in the technology.

 

[Manticore]

I’m currently gigging in an ampless situation; so I’ve actually got more than a passing interest in the technology.

There are a few options worth considering. I was fortunate to have some guidance from a couple of guitar players that use a Kemper instead of an amp, both in the studio and live. I've had mine about two years now; obviously, I'd recommend considering one for your ampless gigs. And you are correct: they are not inexpensive. Neither are they entirely intuitive. There's a bit of learning curve, but like anything else, once the light goes on it is really quite easy to navigate. And for the record: I've modeled my SWR gear, but I did not sell my SWR gear; there are a few gigs where an amp is useful.

 

[Two-Spirit]

I've seen digital modeling used by professional guitarists in Brandon through top of the line pa system and the tone wasn't even as good as a Blues Driver into a Peavey. The technology isn't there yet, but guitarists have a use for a lot of fake amps. The audiences had fun.
Bassists don't need lots of amp models and you already have sansamp devices. But...it would be nice to go from GK growl to SVT to fliptop.

 

[allenhumble]

 

[Two-Spirit]

I've seen digital modeling used by professional guitarists in Brandon through top of the line pa system and the tone wasn't even as good as a Blues Driver into a Peavey. The technology isn't there yet, but guitarists have a use for a lot of fake amps. The audiences had fun.
Bassists don't need lots of amp models and you already have sansamp devices. But...it would be nice to go from GK growl to SVT to fliptop.

What's y'alls take on SVT vs SVT Pro, vs Modelling?

 

[Warwick Qc418]

Nobody talks about the Markbass multiamp. This is one of the most popular bass amp brand that got out with very good bass amp modeler and it went under the radar. I think markbass would have nailed it if they did an amp less pedalboard version, too bad...

 

[Engle]

I have a Line6 bass pod pro and I find it great for recording. I used it live for a while when I played heavier music, and found it difficult to match levels properly when switching between effects.
The models sound good IMO (not exactly like the originals I’m sure), but mostly I just got tired of lugging a rack.

 

[AngelMoncada]

Am I wrong in thinking that you could just use a "normal" Kemper with, say an Ampeg SVT profile to play bass through ?
I don't think its exclusively made for guitars, is it ?

Actually, you're right. Sounds good to me.

 

[jollygiantchris]

I just looked at Line 6 website. It seems they have withdrawn from bass amplification. They claim the Ampli series will handle bass, but they never call it a bass amp.
The old LowDown series was many steps past dreadful. I sold a pile of them to kids who liked to turn on all the effects at once, but there was nothing there for the serious bass player.
Kemper makes bass software, that I've never tried. I would be very curious to. Their guitar software is used by just about every Nashville guitarist, and they are the REAL tone snobs, so it must be great.
I bought a TC with some modelling, but it blew up the first night, and ended up in a big fight with them, that was never resolved, and that's it for TC in my book.

I had a TC Hall of Fame reverb that lasted 4 clicks. Complete trash QC.

For bass modeling there's studio stuff but not really much good live stuff, the Kuassa Cerberus is supposed to be very good, I've used the Ignite amps SHB-1, Brainworx Bassdude, and Thermionik's SVT plugin I'd say they all do different things well but there's nothing that really blows me away. Admittedly I haven't used the Kuassa Cerberus yet. I think we are better served by nice Preamp pedals like the Tech 21 stuff or Darkglass/EBS. We definitely have more and better of those then guitarists do.

 

[gumtown]

Boss GT-1B bass pedal does amp modelling and effects.
https://www.boss.info/us/products/gt-1b/

I use a Roland GR-55 which does amp modelling, and instrument modelling, using their V-Bass system with GK hex divided pickup.

 

[ThisBass]

Modelling is not the same as profiling.
Profiling can be considered as "snapshoot" of a given system "just in time"
while (look ahead) modelling can enhance the sound with time variant (sound) properties.
The difference is most audible in dynamic feel and (initial) attack sound characteristic.

 

[ThuzzleFump]

There's always the Roland Cube Series. They don't make a BIG amp, but their modeling seems OK to me. So that's one viable option along with the various modeling pedals and boxes.

The other thing about modeling is, while a guitarist may want and be able to use a really broad range of tones, the bass is more constrained in terms of what is useful (IMO). At least in the traditional role, we need to keep the song going and play with impact in the hear/feel range which is around 30-1000 Hz. Above that, you are in solo range, which is fine, but it's not the bread and butter of the bass. Similarly, effects can be used, but if you use a lot you tend to lose the rhythmic groove. That's also why we are more inclined to favor clean sounds. I realize there are exceptions to what I say; I'm talking about the time and groove role of bass, and what is to me the 80% use case.

I have the tiny Roland Micro Cube for practice. I like it enough that I might buy the big brother, though it's still not really more than a medium sized combo amp.

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[Daniel Piper]

The helix has an already pretty impressive line up of bass amps.

If I had the $$- a helix, poweramp, fearless setup would be my rig.

 

[Manticore]

Actually, you're right. Sounds good to me.

This is a review of the powered version, which in my mind, is not the ideal way to go. The cab profiles won't work quite right if you use the powered version through a specific cab. If using the unpowered version, you'll go through the board to your full range FOH speakers and either IEMs or full-range wedges. In this scenario, the amp and cab combinations are fully functional. Also keep in mind that when one performs a proper A/B test, it should be done against the actual amp modeled. As we all know, some tube amps will sound completely different from another tube amp of the same make, model and year. So, in short, the profile is specific to a particular amp and/or cab.

 

[DavC]

i have the line 6 HD ProX rack ... the released a Bass amp pack for it a few years ago ... it helped a bit ...

whatever i use it for , bass / gtr / keys / vocals / whatever ... i still have a bunch of pedals in front of it , and a couple in the stereo fx loop ... still a fan of some things being ' real analog ' ..... !

i'd never use it live ... i like it's computer editor , it's fun on a bigger screen ... lots of folks will say that this unit or that unit is best ... i think the best Programming makes one best ... sure i'd like a Helix , or a Fractal ... but i don't think it would be a cost effective move since i have a lot of work into my current modeler , and it sounds pretty good .. !?

 

[arbiterusa]

Have the Pod Pro XT rackmount. Really like it. Have ended up rarely using it, because I really end up using only one tone in all live situations, and all my work has been live for quite some time now.

If I were recording I’d use it a LOT. The models are decent, not Kemper level but they do the job. The GK sounds more or less like my old 400RB. The SWR sounds like my SWR. The SVT sounds like a good recording of an SVT. It’s pretty easy to work with. It’s a nice tool.

 

[JKos]

I use my Line 6 POD HD500X sometimes. For me, the key to finding bass tones that fit nice in a mix is to forget about preconceived notions of each amp and cabinet model. Just try them! Mix and match. The cabinets totally change how a given amp model sounds and feels.

But, I'm also not trying to recreate a given real life amp. I'm just looking for tones that I like and work.

- John

 

[1bassleft]

I own and use a Kemper and really have no desire to go back to using a dedicated bass rig. It capably and accurately reproduces a vast array of different amps and cabs in three rack spaces that weigh just a few pounds... Once you've mastered its operation you'll have ready access to a huge array of different sounding amps, cabs and amp/cab combinations... It takes far less time to set up and tear down at each gig...

I haven't mentioned the use of a Kemper recently because my opinion doing so is vastly superior to having a dedicated bass rig became somewhat incendiary, particularly among the all-tube head and monster cab users...

Shame about the last bit, because I've been reading this thread with a lot of interest, even though I play all-valve and tried to get a Bassman that would complete my Holy Trinity - despite never doing a gig that could utilize all that and I'd look like I was auditioning for Spinal Tap.

I don't know how much my "pfft" attitude to most modelling gear in the 90s was prejudice but the digital I'm exposed to now every day is so much better, I'm really curious to consider it. I'm mad if I plan to bring any of the big stuff over to Spain even though letting go of the CMI/Marshall would be a heartwrench. I'd love a box in the corner to do even some of what I want and my only thing is a comfortable (for me) interface. But that must be the easy(ish) part, surely? Any ops on convincing modellers with designed-for-dinosaurs UIs?

 

[andruca]

IMO, both guitar players and bass players don't buy anything if it's not expensive enough. Snobbish, I know, but still true. It took Kemper charging 2000+$ for a modeling+class D amp for guitarists to surrender their Rectifiers, when, fancy names and marketing shticks aside, the technology has been there for almost 2 decades. With a deep enough understanding of what I'm doing and enough time and will to tweak I've been consistently getting a better tone than most people with 10X the cost of my gear, mostly on the different generations of Zoom devices and a SansAmp RBI, plus any clean loud amp (that's why I never needed to go expensive on amps either). BTW, been using the RBI as the sole tool for recording bass (no amp) since forever, both for my gigs or when producing others'. Any "state of the art" b/s (also the "mic the cabs" b/s) gets crushed the moment techs/producers hear the tone comming out of it (same thing live with a Zoom MS60B emulating it). Some of us have been there for decades, even on the cheap. Now, somebody puts out outrageously pricey versions (easy to see where most of that money goes: marketing hype) and now all of a sudden people have realized ANYTHING can be achieved with algorithms and embrace digital? Old news, pretty lame, and sort of ripoff-ish if you ask me.

EDIT: on the FRFR cabs, well, my (rock/HC/metal) experience is they make no sense for amplifying bass and all I tried sounded like weak crap without exception. I prefer coloured 100% of the times, as well as basses with a strong character, no "neat" (generic) sounding axes for me.