• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

"Bass is not played that way" ?!

#161
Well, Bauhaus architect Mies van der Rohe is famous for saying "Less is more.". Later architect Robert Venturi wrote "Less is a bore.". I tend to agree with Venturi in my playing though not always.

And it's not simply a matter of playing more notes. It is far more a matter of knowing when to pick up the pace and "weave" lines with a like-minded guitarist or drummer, and when it simply is better to back off. And these approaches can be well combined in the same tune. NB, Jack Casady on "The Ballad of You Me and Pooneil" or the simply majestic lines he plays on "Crown of Creation".

Jack Bruce made his name in a trio where he was capable of standing up to, and exceeding (?) the alleged mighty Clapton. Notice how much he varies is tone, attack and note choice on hin non-Cream recordings.

-stevieg
 
  • Like
Reactions: roccobass
#162
stevieg said:
Well, Bauhaus architect Mies van der Rohe is famous for saying "Less is more.". Later architect Robert Venturi wrote "Less is a bore.". I tend to agree with Venturi in my playing though not always.

And it's not simply a matter of playing more notes. It is far more a matter of knowing when to pick up the pace and "weave" lines with a like-minded guitarist or drummer, and when it simply is better to back off. And these approaches can be well combined in the same tune. NB, Jack Casady on "The Ballad of You Me and Pooneil" or the simply majestic lines he plays on "Crown of Creation".

Jack Bruce made his name in a trio where he was capable of standing up to, and exceeding (?) the alleged mighty Clapton. Notice how much he varies is tone, attack and note choice on hin non-Cream recordings.

-stevieg
Click to expand...
Yes, I’m glad you mentioned Jack Bruce’s non-Cream recordings. I was impressed more by his overall musicianship than by his bass playing. His playing was always excellent, but I thought his tone suffered because the EBO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lbsterner
#163
I agree. Jack Bruce was a truly complete musician. Composing, playing bass, cello, piano and great arrangements. I really never liked the tone of the Gibson EB0/EB3, and with Cream he was terribly over-amped and his tone suffered. His playing did not. As Fatdog of "fatdawg.com" (do check it out and if in Berkeley, CA make it a point to visit Subway Music). The trick to dealing with Fatdawg is if he starts yelling, just yell back. It works. I've bought a Guild Starfire, a Danelectro (his specialty) and copy of the original 50s Fender Precision. Anyway back to the point, Gibson's EB0/EB3 pro duce what Fatdog likes to call that "fart in a bathtub" tone.

stevieg
 
  • Like
Reactions: roccobass
#164
RATM-RHCP said:
"man, bass is not played that way".
Click to expand...

If you have played more creatively than others it is because you have stood on the shoulders of giants.

My primary influecnes have been Squire, Entwhistle and Levin.

Never Quit


Almost the entire bass line is being played by striking the pads of the second and fourth fingers with a hammer technique upon the neck, not above the pick ups.
 
#166
Dr Reed said:
If you have played more creatively than others it is because you have stood on the shoulders of giants.

My primary influecnes have been Squire, Entwhistle and Levin.

Never Quit


Almost the entire bass line is being played by striking the pads of the second and fourth fingers with a hammer technique upon the neck, not above the pick ups.
Click to expand...


Tony Levin. Yes!!! For some reason when I think of truly inspirational bassists his name does not readily come up. On reflection however, I realize what an injustice I've committed. Tony Levin is a brilliant bassist ans stickist. I can't praise him highly enough. Particularly on Chapman Stick. I own two of them and still can't get my finger placement right. Sigh...

stevieg
 
#168
Have heard that sort of thing for 35 years.
Having said that, I’ve also heard bassists overplay. As has been mentioned before, you play to fit the song. Sometimes, the song will call for something simple, ala AC/DC. Other times, you can be free to “walk” a bit. Just remember-it’s the song that is most important.
 
#169
I don't like it when/if someone stifles creativity. I'd play the song how I'm hearing it....I AM THE BASSIST.

I am open to criticism and will change if I'm really off or I think someone's idea is better than my idea. Bottom line is we are all professionals, or should be, and we must respect each other's musical abilities and tastes.

Next time you hear something he plays that doesn't agree with you, then see how he takes your review.
 
#170
RATM-RHCP said:
Hey all,
so I was playing a 16th note riff on the higher frets of the G and D string, then the guitarist comes to me and says: "man, bass is not played that way". I was so upset that there was someone making rules for an instrument haha. Have you experienced this as well, that someone said, stick to the root notes or anything like that?

Cheers
Click to expand...
if you were playing in time and in key.... I'd say, "if I didn't think this piece needed the fill, I wouldn't"
 
#171
RATM-RHCP said:
Hey all,
so I was playing a 16th note riff on the higher frets of the G and D string, then the guitarist comes to me and says: "man, bass is not played that way". I was so upset that there was someone making rules for an instrument haha. Have you experienced this as well, that someone said, stick to the root notes or anything like that?

Cheers
Click to expand...
There is SOME truth to the saying I love to hate: "There's no money above the fifth fret."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Predators1998 and Bassbeater
#173
One of the main reasons I have stayed away from nostalgia rock (aka classic rock) bands is that, by and large, the bass lines are so rudimentary. I learned to play listening to guys like Jack Bruce, Jack Cassidy (Jefferson Airplane), Bruce Thomas (early Elvis Costello) and John Entwistle. The ONLY time, in recent years, that I, against my better judgment, tried to play in a 60s band, all I ever heard from the guitarist is that he didn't "hear a lot of root notes." I was trying to make the bass part more interesting (for the potential dancers as well as for me) but apparently all he wanted was someone to stay on the root notes and play "thump thump" lines. So I quit.
 
#174
RATM-RHCP said:
Hey all,
so I was playing a 16th note riff on the higher frets of the G and D string, then the guitarist comes to me and says: "man, bass is not played that way". I was so upset that there was someone making rules for an instrument haha. Have you experienced this as well, that someone said, stick to the root notes or anything like that?

Cheers
Click to expand...
Really? Did it sound good, or was the bass missing?
 
#177
While reading this thread I started think of Tal Wilkenfeld. I remember noticing she seemed to live above the 12th fret. Just to make sure I was credible, I did some research by watching some videos and looking at some pictures. I will use seemed a lot to make sure I don't claim I am an authority. When she is center, or highlighted, she stays up top and uses the bottom for accent. When touring with Beck, she seemed to stay low to setup the song, but would move up whenever she could get away with it, or was soloing. With other performances, she would stay low to do her part in the band.

Therefore an excellent example of a top feeder with band etiquette.
 
  • Like
Reactions: roccobass and Ian Lewis
#178
As a bassist who has experience with drummers who overplay - I am very aware of ego driven playing. If one is filling in all the space in and putting in complex rhythms then they are demanding the other players adjust on the fly.

Absolute positions are tough on this issue. I play with a drummer who forces me to adjust all night long - sometimes half a dozen times in a song.

I can adjust on the fly but I also love simple songs. In this three piece the guitarists looks to me to provide grounding as the drummer on some nights is in constant solo mode.

What though has transpired as I get pissed off I decide I will outplay him - ie play even more notes. The guitarists looks bewildered - he is brilliant and plays rythmn and solos and sings all at once. At any rate when we go into group solo mode - I keep it in the money register - after those sets we get regulars saying that is some of the best playing they have ever heard us do. It has gotten all of us to thinking but I keep saying OK we can do that but let’s juxtaposition that approach against songs done dead simple all singing with minimal accompaniment. The trouble really is the three of us have hugely different musical backgrounds - all played sh-tloads in completely different kinds of music.

The key is being able to have these conversations aggressively without feeling a need to tiptoe over sensitive feelings. I do say - cut the crap when I’m singing harmonies - if dickhead doesn’t care - so what I do. The drummer tells me to F off / I say notwithstanding shut the shag up on the cymbals already and we all forget about until next time

In fact the angry overplaying competition has opened our eyes to possibilities -

Conflict is a good thing if you man up and deal
 
Last edited:
#179
micguy said:
I play bass in churches. I get to work with a lot of worship leaders. When we get to the church, we have a couple hours to rehearse stuff - sometimes stuff we've never played before, often with people I haven't played with before, and get things to the level where we can (hopefully) inspire an audience. None of us have the luxury of having egos drive our decisions. I work a lot before I get there to understand the songs, and work out parts I think that leader will like - sometimes it's pretty much what's on the record, sometimes it's got a few new twists in there. I always adpat my parts somewhat in real time - if the feel from the drummer is different, what I play is likely to change to work with that.

If the leader isn't feeling something, I don't defend the part I came in with; I ask what they'd like. I'm not paid to do what they want, but it's part of being a good team player to be flexible and get behind that person's vision as much as I can - we simply don't have time to have a bunch of discussions about everything. It doesn't happen too often, but when it does, it's my job to wrap my head around and own the part I'm asked to play. If someone wants a parade of quarter notes, I'll give them the best damn quarter note parade I can muster.

I realize not every band works this way, but in general, I think adopting a "lower ego" position is a good approach. That means both that we shouldn't be quite so proud of our parts, but also that we shouldn't tell others how things "should" be. We should offer up ideas, and try them out together - keep what works, ditch what doesn't.
Click to expand...

I'm quoting myself, because, wouldn't ya know, last night I got a chance to practice what I preach. On a particular tune, in rehearsal, a new worship leader commented that he didn't want walking notes (i.e passing notes). So, I was challenged with making pretty much just roots sound interesting. "You mean, just the notes on the chord chart?" This weekend, we'll see how well I can do at that. I have a couple days to develop the right feel for it, and I'm gonna do my best to do what he wants as well as I can.
 
#180
I agree totally with you, 7615. There is nothing I like more than playing against/with a COMPETENT (caps intended) drummer.

And, micguy, it never ceases to astonish me how many time I've been told not to play "walking" bass. What is truly unfortunate about this is how very few rock/blues musicians know just how specific and defined walking bass is. I agree that the issue in question is the pattern I may be developing, grace notes I'm playing or, as you so well put it, "passing notes". If one really does not know what he is talking about (e.g., walking bass), just shut up. Or ask the critic toi define say, walking bass, and be prepared for nonsense or blank stares with grace notes provided by the ambient cricket.
 
  • Like
Reactions: roccobass

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back