Bass sustainer developed in 2000 what you think?

[Wizmoon]

Hello this is my first post
i wanto to show you my sustainer and need your opinion about it yhis was developed in 2000
here is the link:
features, intensity control, normal and harmonic mode, surround effect control and splitter
I only show here the normal mode
Think out the Box!

 

[tsheldon]

I'm intrigued.

 

[Wizmoon]

hi! What you mean with intrigued?

 

[Ewo]

Interesting! Kind of cello-like timbre, sometimes.

 

[Wizmoon]

yes no distortion pedals were used its just the natural sound, there's no need to modify the instrument or take of a pickup, i developed many new things for guitar ,bass,cello, double bass, im going to post in the forum when everything ready to market and apply for a gold membership

 

[Ewo]

Could you post a pic of the box?

 

[Wizmoon]

not yet sorry , im preparing everything to show.
edit: how do you know about the box? Im not talking of it on the video description.

 

[ole Jason]

Fernandes made a sustainer for a number of years. Not sure if they ever did a factory model for bass.

 

[bongomania]

how do you know about the box? Im not talking of it on the video description.

Well, you did say:

there's no need to modify the instrument or take of a pickup

So it probably is not inside the bass, and it needs to be contained in something, and it probably isn't housed in a drinking glass or a paper bag or a deflated football. Probably a box.

Sounds interesting though, I look forward to learning more about it!

 

[Jazz Ad]

I tried a Fernandes Bass with a sustainer years ago, they exist. Interested too.

 

[Honch]

Look, you're almost right up the valley. Thanks for sharing this.

BUT!

The one thing that would be absolute a killer, is if that you reversed it! Kill sustain instead! Infinite sustain for guitars are a much sought after asset. However, on bass THE CONTRARY. Now, the reason for this is the Paul Vo Moog Guitar that was released some time ago. Enourmously expensive. However, it had polyphonic sustain, for all strings equally. Now when trying it out at a trade fair, I found the most INTRIGUING thing, was the reverse sustain switch! It reversed the phase of the automatic oscillation of the strings, and killed the sustain immediately after inital attack and made the electric guitar sound - instantly - like a banjo. Without any EQ or synth or "acoustic modelling". It doesn't even have to be polyphonic at all, reducing the cost and price to a large degree.

Then this idea struck me on the spot: IF, and only if this technique could be incorporated in/on any fretless bass, with high end pickups, and flatwounds strings on it, it would be the most closest thing there ever was to imitating the "non-sustain" of any upright bass! Not having any foam mufflers or any other things to physically damp the strings, and you can as well engineer it to be most effective in the upper registers, and when playing low, the sustain creeps back again. All would sound VERY NATURAL on top of it all since no modelling or eq was used. Just affecting the mechanical string vibration.

I've both e-mailed Paul Vo and Moog sites about this, since I've heard they've gone separate ways by now, but no replies at all. It seems that they think it is a very niched market. I think the contrary, that in the bass market it would be a killer application and attract many more - way more - people to it, than the endless sustain. The prolonged sustain on bass guitars are mostly due to shorter scale, and solid bodies, than an upright. So you have this long sustain.

Of course, when doing solos on fretless, you can JUST AS WELL have the option of turning on infinite sustain for all these soaring solos. But that shouldn't be the main selling point. The other thing would be way way more attractive, and attract more bass people. You don't even need EQ, or any "room simulator" to simulate the upright body.


I've even mailed the Sustainiac people about this, if it's possible to "phase reverse" or revers the sustainer bit, on regular guitar, but they say it's not possible. Their solution to it, is - of course - all different from Paul Vo/Moogs solution. So there you go. A business idea from me. For free.

 

[Honch]

As you said : Think out of the box. I'll say: Think out of the box even more!
Just take it from here:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Honch]

seems a time for language lesson from a non-native english:

intrigued = captivating = interesting = catching attention to a greater degree. Encarceramento. [portugese]

 

[Need Gigs]

Look, you're almost right up the valley. Thanks for sharing this.

BUT!

The one thing that would be absolute a killer, is if that you reversed it! Kill sustain instead! Infinite sustain for guitars are a much sought after asset. However, on bass THE CONTRARY. Now, the reason for this is the Paul Vo Moog Guitar that was released some time ago. Enourmously expensive. However, it had polyphonic sustain, for all strings equally. Now when trying it out at a trade fair, I found the most INTRIGUING thing, was the reverse sustain switch! It reversed the phase of the automatic oscillation of the strings, and killed the sustain immediately after inital attack and made the electric guitar sound - instantly - like a banjo. Without any EQ or synth or "acoustic modelling". It doesn't even have to be polyphonic at all, reducing the cost and price to a large degree.

Then this idea struck me on the spot: IF, and only if this technique could be incorporated in/on any fretless bass, with high end pickups, and flatwounds strings on it, it would be the most closest thing there ever was to imitating the "non-sustain" of any upright bass! Not having any foam mufflers or any other things to physically damp the strings, and you can as well engineer it to be most effective in the upper registers, and when playing low, the sustain creeps back again. All would sound VERY NATURAL on top of it all since no modelling or eq was used. Just affecting the mechanical string vibration.

I've both e-mailed Paul Vo and Moog sites about this, since I've heard they've gone separate ways by now, but no replies at all. It seems that they think it is a very niched market. I think the contrary, that in the bass market it would be a killer application and attract many more - way more - people to it, than the endless sustain. The prolonged sustain on bass guitars are mostly due to shorter scale, and solid bodies, than an upright. So you have this long sustain.

Of course, when doing solos on fretless, you can JUST AS WELL have the option of turning on infinite sustain for all these soaring solos. But that shouldn't be the main selling point. The other thing would be way way more attractive, and attract more bass people. You don't even need EQ, or any "room simulator" to simulate the upright body.


I've even mailed the Sustainiac people about this, if it's possible to "phase reverse" or revers the sustainer bit, on regular guitar, but they say it's not possible. Their solution to it, is - of course - all different from Paul Vo/Moogs solution. So there you go. A business idea from me. For free.

OMG! This would be awesome!
Interesting sounds in that demo, I look forward to hearing more about it. Or maybe 11,000 demo's.

 

[JohnDeereJack]

That would sound really nice with a fretless. I use an ebow to create a similar cello-like effect but it's nowhere near as versatile as the effect unit in your video.

 

[Mosfed]

Very cool. Would be interested in learning more. I love the timber that you manage to get to.

and for me the fact that it's housed in a milk container is all the better! Who doesn't like milk!?!?

 

[Wizmoon]

Well, you did say:

So it probably is not inside the bass, and it needs to be contained in something, and it probably isn't housed in a drinking glass or a paper bag or a deflated football. Probably a box.

Sounds interesting though, I look forward to learning more about it!

haha ok, is that it have the sustainer system that have an optional box like a pedal to make surround recordings in studio or play live with diferent strings sustained from diferent amps, and a foot pedal to blend from normal mode to harmonic mode.

Look, you're almost right up the valley. Thanks for sharing this.

BUT!

The one thing that would be absolute a killer, is if that you reversed it! Kill sustain instead! Infinite sustain for guitars are a much sought after asset. However, on bass THE CONTRARY. Now, the reason for this is the Paul Vo Moog Guitar that was released some time ago. Enourmously expensive. However, it had polyphonic sustain, for all strings equally. Now when trying it out at a trade fair, I found the most INTRIGUING thing, was the reverse sustain switch! It reversed the phase of the automatic oscillation of the strings, and killed the sustain immediately after inital attack and made the electric guitar sound - instantly - like a banjo. Without any EQ or synth or "acoustic modelling". It doesn't even have to be polyphonic at all, reducing the cost and price to a large degree.

Then this idea struck me on the spot: IF, and only if this technique could be incorporated in/on any fretless bass, with high end pickups, and flatwounds strings on it, it would be the most closest thing there ever was to imitating the "non-sustain" of any upright bass! Not having any foam mufflers or any other things to physically damp the strings, and you can as well engineer it to be most effective in the upper registers, and when playing low, the sustain creeps back again. All would sound VERY NATURAL on top of it all since no modelling or eq was used. Just affecting the mechanical string vibration.

I've both e-mailed Paul Vo and Moog sites about this, since I've heard they've gone separate ways by now, but no replies at all. It seems that they think it is a very niched market. I think the contrary, that in the bass market it would be a killer application and attract many more - way more - people to it, than the endless sustain. The prolonged sustain on bass guitars are mostly due to shorter scale, and solid bodies, than an upright. So you have this long sustain.

Of course, when doing solos on fretless, you can JUST AS WELL have the option of turning on infinite sustain for all these soaring solos. But that shouldn't be the main selling point. The other thing would be way way more attractive, and attract more bass people. You don't even need EQ, or any "room simulator" to simulate the upright body.


I've even mailed the Sustainiac people about this, if it's possible to "phase reverse" or revers the sustainer bit, on regular guitar, but they say it's not possible. Their solution to it, is - of course - all different from Paul Vo/Moogs solution. So there you go. A business idea from me. For free.

howww thats a spot i missed! thats a great idea !! i will turn on my osciloscope right away , i think i can solve that physics problem.

As you said : Think out of the box. I'll say: Think out of the box even more!
Just take it from here:

Invalid Link Removed

well in the youtube video i have a short description of the sustainer, in this video i only show normal mode operation, this sustainer have normal mode, harmonic mode wich have a switch to change from normal to harmonics and a box with a footpedal to go from a normal played note to its hamonic, this floor box have to the capacity of split strings in diferent mixer tracks for recording surround, or play live with diferent amps in diferent places depending on musician imagination, but that thing of killing the sustain never crossed my mind , for shure i will offer you a unit if i manage to deal with that man , thanks a lot!!!
Also moog its very expensive , i think i can put it on sale for less than 200dollar, also you dont have moog build to work on guitar or bass were you can use your own pickups, you can use your bridge and also your neck pickup! And no modifications required.

seems a time for language lesson from a non-native english:

intrigued = captivating = interesting = catching attention to a greater degree. Thesaurus. There's always Google translate if someone didn't knew.

lol thanks i will use it next time

OMG! This would be awesome!
Interesting sounds in that demo, I look forward to hearing more about it. Or maybe 11,000 demo's.

Thnaks , now that Honch gave me that great idea i will work on it, as soon as i managed that i will post full review

That would sound really nice with a fretless. I use an ebow to create a similar cello-like effect but it's nowhere near as versatile as the effect unit in your video.

wait to ear all modes of sustainer think you will love it
thanks a lot for your opinion , i see that this could be usefull, i developed it in 2000 but never worked on it again because i saw the poor sales of sustainer companies

Very cool. Would be interested in learning more. I love the timber that you manage to get to.

and for me the fact that it's housed in a milk container is all the better! Who doesn't like milk!?!?

Theres a version for luthiers build incorporated in their instruments too so that theres no external components .showing

 

[Wizmoon]

my reply is awayting moderation

 

[Wizmoon]

Look, you're almost right up the valley. Thanks for sharing this.

BUT!

The one thing that would be absolute a killer, is if that you reversed it! Kill sustain instead!

hello my friend i was here designing a circuit the circuit i designed does this :Link Removed
in theory it should work so lets order some parts to test this circuit in real life.

 

[Honch]

Awwh chucks, I should've demand a percentage.... regret I posted the idea here.

The most important thing is though: Since everyone reads it, you'll have to hurry up because you'll definitely be the FIRST ONE out there, to pursue this feature. Get a patent on it! Test in on a fretless bass. I find it quite peculiar that Moog/Paul Vo hasn't produced a bass version yet. The most important thing is to KEEP the sustainer too. You should be able to switch between them functions. Either/or is not that a good idea. Both. Because I think, as it works now, there are alternatives out there already, that can produce infinite sustain. I think Michael Brooks (film score composer, avant garde guitarist) did some infinite sustain things before anyone else (Fernandes, Sustainiac et al). To be used on both guitar and bass.

Try it with a fretless with flatwounds on. If you have access to - say - neodymium pickups passive or active that can track a couple of more frequencies than any passive alnico/ceramic pickup it will be better. Trust me on this. Even if the bass has flatwounds on it which doesn't give away that much treble. It's all about the initial attack of the note. WHEN the string is plucked. It's the FEEL of the strings stopping dead right of them being plucked that is same as an upright. Having the string ringing and oscillating, you could as well plug it into a sampler/or a synthesiser with an upright bass patch/preset and leave it at that.

However, I think...it requires more power to be able to oscillate large bass strings (and stop them!), so no 9 v battery would be sufficent enough. 18 v maybe? Two 9 volts?

I can at least become the betatester and get a unit for free, if it should catch on....

- - - - - - - - - -

While you do this, the other guys can try building something like this to "go" with it then:

Fishman and others has produced this FISHMAN AURA box that contains modelling samples of different high end acoustic guitars, and sample them at 2.000 points, and blends in with piezo pickups. To use with acoustic guitars live, to get a nice sound without feedback. However, this has only to do with the acoustic properties of the acoustic guitar recorded/sampled with high end mics in high end studios.

NOW PEOPLE: Think of the exact same process, but done to an upright bass's acoustic top. A great and enormously expensive old 18th century italian bass, or similar, recorded and put samples in that box. Then you have that "aural" properties of it. Added on top of the "anti-sustain" properties of your box. I don't know if the Fishman Aura today, already has this feature. I've heard something that you can send in your own guitar and get that "template" of the soundboard, top of the guitar. On a sampled file or something and load it into the Fishman. I don't know if this would work out on an upright bass though. Those upright basses are major dough...

Of course, the most convenient thing would be to combine them in one bass (i e the non-sustaining bit plus aura) , but it would turn out quite unwieldy I think. Cumbersome as hell.