Bassist for Michael Jackson?

[jerry]

Just wanted to ask if anyone knows this... was Louis Johnson MJ’s bass player for everything, or were their others that played bass for him too?

Also who played bass in the Jackson 5 was it the same person or did it change?

Thanks. I’d be very interested to know!

There are a few periods in MJ's recording career, Louis Johnson did a lot of the Quincy Jones era with Greg Phillinganes doing a lot of the keyboard bass. A lot of the Jackson 5 hits that most people know was Wilton Felder from the Crusaders on bass.

 

[JimK]

So many unfortunate things said about Michael Jackson and his apparently difficult life, but I'd have to think it was a big mistake to think he could produce his own music better without Quincy Jones. I can understand why he'd feel that way, but still to me a huge mistake.

I agree....big, big drop off with Bad...was Q being phased out here? I looked and he is involved. I just recall being disappointed with this album after the two previous grand slams.

 

[JimK]

Just wanted to ask if anyone knows this... was Louis Johnson MJ’s bass player for everything, or were their others that played bass for him too?

Do not forget Bobby Watson (of Rufus) on "Rock With You"!

Also who played bass in the Jackson 5 was it the same person or did it change?

Thanks. I’d be very interested to know!

Me, too.
There is some very tasteful playing on "Never Can Say Goodbye", "Maybe Tomorrow" , & "Looking Through The Windows"...who played those?
Eventually, the J5 switched labels & hooked up with Philly International (Gamble/Huff, McFadden/Whitehead)...I would assume stuff like this is Ronnie Baker?


And don't discount Jermaine Jackson on the live stuff...IMO, he can come across as a combination Jamerson/Jack Bruce.

 

[dtripoli]

What! a synth doubled Johnson's bass lines?
Last year this subject came up and people even posted charts and videos showing
Louis play octaves. The first note in the riff is F# on the E string and F# on the D string then playing the rest of the riff
as we all know it.
I know this is true because I read it on the internet....lol..... well, it's "mostly true" as Snopes would say when they don't want to admit their side blew it. Wait a minute, you mean fake news has bled into music discussions? that's heresy and worthy of disbarment from the wide world of music.
Who you gonna belief some total stranger, your lying ears or Louis?
IMHO, both bass octaves and a synth doubling at the same time is the answer. Now everybody wins.

 

[dtripoli]

Do not forget Bobby Watson (of Rufus) on "Rock With You"!


Me, too.
There is some very tasteful playing on "Never Can Say Goodbye", "Maybe Tomorrow" , & "Looking Through The Windows"...who played those?
Eventually, the J5 switched labels & hooked up with Philly International (Gamble/Huff, McFadden/Whitehead)...I would assume stuff like this is Ronnie Baker?


And don't discount Jermaine Jackson on the live stuff...IMO, he can come across as a combination Jamerson/Jack Bruce.

I don't discount Jermaine's bass playing, he was surrounded by highly skilled players and it rubs off on you.
But even more amazing is he did all those bass lines while dancing to precise choreography and singing harmonies.
He came out of Motown records and had to follow in some of the toughest shoes ever worn, namely by James Jamerson and Bob Babbit.
I remember in the very early 1970's Motown and Soul Train were pushing to propel who they believed was as talented and maybe even more than brother, Michael Jackson. Unfortunately I can't name you one song Jermaine wrote and performed. He also had a number of solo albums. This is all so distressing...where's Tito?, I need some tissue to wipe my eyes. Sniffle-sniffle.

 

[SpankBazz]

Louis did not write the line for Billie Jean. Michael is the sole author of Billie Jean.
This is Michael's home demo:


I think the poster is confusing Billie Jean with Get On The Floor.
Louis wrote the bassline for Get On The Floor and Michael wrote the rest around it.

For the record, Quincy Jones hated Billie Jean. From the title to the intro, Quincy hated it.
When he failed to convince Michael to keep it off the album, he wanted to call the song Not My Lover and shave the intro down.
Michael refused and you have his signature song.
Michael and Quincy fought about other songs also.
Quincy hated Smooth Criminal so much that he stopped it from being the title of the album that became Bad.

As far as the bass part, Michael had Louis play the part on each of his basses to see which bass sound he liked best.
According to Louis, Michael chose the Yamaha.
The low F# trips everyone up because the line starts on the F# on the D string.
If you watch Louis play, you'll notice that he uses his thumb on the E string.
He employs the thumb on Billie Jean to hit the low F# while playing the other F# with his finger.

You can see him do it in this video:



The rest of the bass sound was filled in with three synths

 

[Jhengsman]

I don't discount Jermaine's bass playing, he was surrounded by highly skilled players and it rubs off on you.
But even more amazing is he did all those bass lines while dancing to precise choreography and singing harmonies.
He came out of Motown records and had to follow in some of the toughest shoes ever worn, namely by James Jamerson and Bob Babbit.
I remember in the very early 1970's Motown and Soul Train were pushing to propel who they believed was as talented and maybe even more than brother, Michael Jackson. Unfortunately I can't name you one song Jermaine wrote and performed. He also had a number of solo albums. This is all so distressing...where's Tito?, I need some tissue to wipe my eyes. Sniffle-sniffle.

In my fantasy what if we were a Jacksons tribute band I would have been Jermaine. His biggest hit would have been Let's Get Serious by Stevie Wonder with Nathan Watts playing in 1980, like most of the Jackson 5 stuff was from the Motown's crew.
As to Tito, after Michael passed there was some reality show with the brothers getting ready to tour and Tito was the unmistakable leader among the brothers. Also in 1980 The Jacksons did Heartbreak Hotel, renamed This Place Hotel along the way. Just about the only thing that made the song a Jacksons song and not a Michael Jackson song was Tito's guitar solo. Predating Eddie Van Halen, Steve Stevens and Slash's work on Michael Jackson albums. Once again Nathan Watts on bass.

 

[SpankBazz]

In my fantasy what if we were a Jacksons tribute band I would have been Jermaine. His biggest hit would have been Let's Get Serious by Stevie Wonder with Nathan Watts playing in 1980

A closer look would find that Jermaine definitely had some success outside the group.
He started writing and producing his own material in 1977.
His brothers left Motown two years prior because they were not allowed to write or produce for themselves.

Jermaine discovered the group Switch the same year and began writing playing, and producing for them.
One of the first hits Switch for was I Wanna Be Closer which was written and produced by Jermaine.


One of Jermaine's best songs came after Let's Get Serious. Written and produced by Jermaine.


Eventually, Jermaine left Motown after reuniting with his brothers on Motown 25. His first album on Arista scored a few hits.
He also produced some songs on Whitney Houston's debut.

His duet with Michael:



And this Quiet Storm classic:


Even though Jermaine brought a lot of the ridicule on himself, he's not the complete failure that he's portrayed to be.
He's a really good singer, songwriter, musician and producer.
But when your brother is the 1# recording artist in history (and you can't dance), you will pale by comparison.

 

[SpankBazz]

There are a few periods in MJ's recording career, Louis Johnson did a lot of the Quincy Jones era with Greg Phillinganes doing a lot of the keyboard bass. A lot of the Jackson 5 hits that most people know was Wilton Felder from the Crusaders on bass.

The Motown stuff was quite a few people on bass.
Aside from Felder (I Want You Back, ABC) there was:
Jamerson

Bob Babbitt
William Salter (Dancing Machine)
Ron Brown
There were probably a few others.

 

[SpankBazz]

A few years ago I was listening to Howard Stern. I forget if it was in regards to MJ passing or part of a retrospective thing they do on that show. Regardless, he somehow had gotten a hold of a tape of Michael singing various parts of songs that would become "Thriller". When I say "singing various parts", I mean he was singing the bass lines, synth parts, drum beats, various rhythm and harmony parts. Just each part individually, one at a time. One of the songs was "Billie jean". It was, in a word, amazing. While he might or might not have written the bassline to BJ, he pretty much had the idea on that tape. It was really cool to hear the audio notes of a true musical genius. I think my jaw dropped when he went from beat boxing the drums to then the bassline, then the "Hoo....Hoo" part in that sequence and I could hear the song in my head, just from those vocal parts.

This is accurate.
In this video, Michael explains how he writes music as the lawyers play a tape of his writing session for The Girl Is Mine.
It's funny to hear Michael explain bending a note of a Moog bassline to the lawyer.
He sings all the parts. Bass, guitar, strings and horns. Of course, he beatboxes the drums.
He says that chords are the hardest part because he can't emulate a chord with his voice.


For chords, he would sit with a keyboard player until the musician captured the chords Michael was hearing in his head.
You couldn't just make up a chord. He would work with the musician until they played the chords he was thinking of.
Once the musician got the parts he wanted, he would record the demo with the musicians.
Bill Wolfer explains here:

 

[SpankBazz]

So many unfortunate things said about Michael Jackson and his apparently difficult life, but I'd have to think it was a big mistake to think he could produce his own music better without Quincy Jones. I can understand why he'd feel that way, but still to me a huge mistake.

I respectfully disagree with this.
Prior to Off The Wall, Michael wrote and produced the Destiny album with his brothers.
Destiny is a great album and put The Jacksons back on top after somewhat of a commercial slump.
With brothers Tito on guitar and Randy on keys and percussion, the brothers were backed by Greg Phillinganes (keys), Nathan Watts (bass), and Michael Sembello (guitar) - all members of Stevie Wonder's backing band Wonderlove.
Ed Greene and Ricky Lawson handled drums.

After being produced by Gamble and Huff for two albums, Michael went to speak with Ron Alexenburg at Epic Records and asked for the chance for the Jackson brothers to have full creative control.
Kenny Gamble vouched for Michael. Alexenburg gave them the go ahead.
The result was the Destiny album.

The self produced Destiny album spawned two huge hits:
Blame It On The Boogie (a remake of an obscure UK single) and Shake Your Body (Down To The Ground) - written by Michael and his brother Randy Jackson.

Aside from those hits, the album is great from start to finish.



Michael chose Quincy to produce Off The Wall because he felt if he self-produced the album it would sound like a Jacksons album.
He asked Quincy to find songs because The Jacksons were on tour almost non-stop during this time and he didn't have the time to write a full album.
Michael wrote 3 songs on Off The Wall - Don't Stop Til You Get Enough, Working Day and Night, and Get On The Floor (w/Louis Johnson).
Off The Wall was released while The Jacksons were on tour for Destiny.
The Destiny tour show was revamped to include Off The Wall songs once that album blew up.

After Off The Wall, the brothers went back into the studio and completed the Triumph album.
IMO, this album the hidden jewel of Michael Jackson's discography.
Although production is credited to the brothers, chief engineer Tom Perry revealed to Wax Poetics Magazine that Michael was the main creative force behind the album and they would keep working until Michael was satisfied.
Triumph spawned the hits Can You Feel It (written by Michael and his brother Jackie), Lovely One (written by Michael and Randy), and Heartbreak Hotel (written by Michael).
But again, like Destiny, every song is quality.



This is Michael leading the band through a demo of an unreleased song during the Triumph recording sessions:


Outside of the group, Michael went on to write and produce for Carole Bayer Sager, Jennifer Holiday, and his sister LaToya Jackson.
Michael wrote and produced these hits for his sister Rebbie and Diana Ross:



To say that Michael Jackson was helpless in the studio without Quincy Jones is simply inaccurate.

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

Jumping in just to post; I had to learn that Louis Johnson part several years ago, for a newgrass/jamband gig I had at the time. I was relatively new in the band, and I thought the guys were just having a little bit of fun with me, so I was going to hand it right back. That's a tough line to play repetitiously, especially without a drum backing track, but I worked on it for several nights. They weren't kidding around though... we had been requested to do it for a certain job.

Good thing I went to the woodshed.