bassists who don't like jaco

[LowEndLobster]

I love jaco, I just don't think he's really a god. Worshipping somebody for their talents or skills is dumb, which is why I say away from the VixChat.

 

[Tyler Hole]

I can't stand Jaco. I'll admit that he is a great bassist, but everytime I try and listen to him play I have to change it before I fall asleep. It's just boring to me.

 

[Against Will]

Aside from Portrait of Tracy, I'm not a big fan of Jaco. Like Victor Wooten, I think he's an absurdly gifted musician whose raised the bar for music and broke the traditional views of what bass could/should be. However, after the 'wow' factor of their recordings wears off I find I can't relate to them. They're adventurous, talented and head and shoulders above pretty much everyone else technically, but they're music doesn't hold my interest, it's just not for me.

In addition, I resent the remark of punk and jazz being opposites. They are, indeed, kindred spirits. Numerous punk/hardcore bands have said they are huge fans of jazz, especially bebop, Iggy Pop, Mike Watt and Bane are all big fans of John Coltrane, and Bird and Monk are key influences for people like Plot to Blow Up the Eiffel Tower and The Locust.

 

[DWBass]

Back to the topic. When Jaco came out he did more to raise the profile of 'fretless' bass guitar and proved that bass guitar could lead than anyone else had up to that point

I tend to agree but only in the jazz scene. Funk bass playing was already out there and moving up fast with a whole lot of stars. There were a lot of cats on the total opposite end of Jaco who could throw down with the best of them.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I agree with DWBass. The Funk/R&B world was already very basscentric and from a purely funk (as in danceable, not simply grooving) Jaco wasn't really relevant to what most funksters were into at that point in time. Of course, his ability influenced all bassists, but check out R&B fretless players like Michael Henderson and Fernando Saunders (Bohannon), they definitely approached the instrument from a different perspective. The same was true for his predecessor in Weather Report, Alphonso Johnson.

 

[page]

I like him on black market, then he bored me.

 

[Vysous]

Jaco is great.... But.... THE OX is my hero

 

[baba]

yes, your right but this guy im talking does'nt think he's good...

Well, if by good you mean talented....he's an idiot. Many people dislike Jaco's music, virtually no one with a clue about music questions his talent.

 

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

I'm not the biggest Jaco fan, and one of the signs of that is that I've never been fascinated with "Teen Town" and never tried to learn it, as I stated in another thread, but I really like his playing. I learned "Donna Lee" (just the theme) and "Portrait Of Tracy", which is a song I think only a true genius can come up with. The bassline for "Come On, Come Over" is one of the grooviest and tastiest I've ever heard. His tone and playing were something totally new to me when I saw his instructional video back in 1991. Unfortunately I didn't have the booklet for it and felt unmotivated because I was a complete "bass illiterate" at the time and I disliked the fact that he barely teaches anything there. He's just talking and playing to Jerry Jemmott and the whole video is full of praise and worship towards him (Just in case you're in doubt about the kind of musician you're watching, he plays piano at the end!). Some years ago, one of my students at the time (a big Jaco fan) had the video with the booklet and the box in which the package comes and he showed me the back cover photo while sarcastically saying: "The Illuminated!". I cracked up (I think you'll agree if you have seen that picture). My point is, I agree about the exaggerated worship and I think that Jaco was a real a****le, but he was a great player anyway. His "Jam in E" from his video still doesn't cease to amaze me if it's true that all those stuff were totally improvised. His tone was a total enigma to me at the time. While trying to copy some stuff from the video, I asked myself "How can he get that sound?" My tone at the time was only "boom, boom, boom" as expected for a tropical music band's bassist and I'd never thought of things like soloing the bridge pickup or adding some highs. While Stu Hamm's "Slap, Pop And Tap For The Bass" was the video that really captivated me (I saw it for the first time the same day as Jaco's), I can tell that Jaco also opened my mind and showed me how long is the road to become a proficient player. After all these years, I think I've only walked like the 10%.

 

[Tyler Hole]

Aside from Portrait of Tracy, I'm not a big fan of Jaco. Like Victor Wooten, I think he's an absurdly gifted musician whose raised the bar for music and broke the traditional views of what bass could/should be. However, after the 'wow' factor of their recordings wears off I find I can't relate to them. They're adventurous, talented and head and shoulders above pretty much everyone else technically, but they're music doesn't hold my interest, it's just not for me.

In addition, I resent the remark of punk and jazz being opposites. They are, indeed, kindred spirits. Numerous punk/hardcore bands have said they are huge fans of jazz, especially bebop, Iggy Pop, Mike Watt and Bane are all big fans of John Coltrane, and Bird and Monk are key influences for people like Plot to Blow Up the Eiffel Tower and The Locust.

I feel the same about Victor Wooten, but only on his studio recordings (Classical Thump comes to mind). I have the Live In America CD and his live performances (especially with the rest of the band) are a whole lot better than the studio recordings, so I stay interested.

 

[Wrong Robot]

I think that a lot of jaco's impact and notoriety comes largely from doing what he did *when* he did it. In retrospect, many of his lines aren't all amazing, and he had a knack for kind of overstepping his role as a bass player.

Granted, he did do some amazing things, and he wrote some absolutely beautiful and incredible music. But as a bass player... his playing really gets old quick for me.

Once you've heard his 6 or 7 signature licks a dozen times and start to realize that the majority of his basslines seem to revolve around a mixture of signature licks and mostly random notes... well, it kind of loses its charm.

His big band arrangements and compositions though, they never get old for me. I can listen to domingo or liberty city or 3 views of a secret or john and mary practically forever and never get tired of it.

 

[Wrong Robot]

The same was true for his predecessor in Weather Report, Alphonso Johnson.

Man, alphonso can GROOOOVE.

 

[Bad Brains]

Ok, here is the story...
I know this other bassist at school who plays punk quebecois (french songs) and he asked me what kind of music I play, I say that fusion jazz is the music I like and I then make him listen to the bass legend jaco... (I made him listen to donna lee, fantasia chromatica, etc...) and he sayed he hated his playin'

do you guys know anybody like that?!?!

You relaly want to prove your point, just tell him "isn't joing a punk band usually what people who really don't know how to play their instruments do?".

I have a friend who plays guitar in a punk band, and he hates Jimi Hendrix. He says Hendrix basically sucks (yet he can't play anything like the guy even if he tried).

He often got offended when I mentioned the low talent level involved in most punk.

 

[Bad Brains]

I can totally understand someone saying Jaco sucks. Here are some quick reasons I can think of:

1. They want to be considered "different" and feel one up on everyone else.
2. They're totally intimidated by the playing, know there's not a chance in hell they're ever going to be able to play any instrument like that, and want to put the guy down in an attempt to make themselves feel better.
3. They're stupid and ignorant.
4. They really know nothing about Jaco whatsoever.
5. They haven't heard enough Jaco.
6. Busy basslines annoy them (as they often do me) and anything they've heard Jaco do simply sounds like noise to them.
7. They like hearing sizzling highs, or reggae like thump.
8. They believe there's beauty in simplicity.
9. They heard Jaco play on his instructional video (where I think he DOES suck).
10. They've never SEEN Jaco play. I think the punks would have a new respect.

I like this list. It also relates to my punk friend guitarist who thinks Hendrix and SRV suck at guitar.

 

[Vysous]

Man, alphonso can GROOOOVE.

Why do people often forget at Miroslav Vitous, first bass player of Weather Report... This the BASSIST, doesn't matter if he played the double bass or the electric bass.... He was lost in shadow of Jaco, but he is GREAT"

 

[Wrong Robot]

Why do people often forget at Miroslav Vitous, first bass player of Weather Report... This the BASSIST, doesn't matter if he played the double bass or the electric bass.... He was lost in shadow of Jaco, but he is GREAT"

I don't forget him, I'm just not too fond of really early weather report, as much as I am later weather report.

 

[Vysous]

I like this list. It also relates to my punk friend guitarist who thinks Hendrix and SRV suck at guitar.

yeah... these people will never listen to your arguments.... They don't see pieces of heart lasting in this songs years after deaths of Jimi and SRV.... yeah, heart... this is the thing why is most of today's music boring me...

 

[Dr. Cheese]

His tone and playing were something totally new to me when I saw his instructional video back in 1991.

I think Jaco struck people with his tone almost as much as his technique. I remember folks wondering what kind of box he had when it was as simple as soloing the bridge pickup! Sometimes the simplest things are the most profound. I also remember seeing Jaco for the first time on "Midnight Special" and Weather Report was playing "Birdland." At the time I knew nothing about artificial harmonics and I could not imagine how he got that high sound playing where he was on the neck of his Jazz Bass. Finally he was the first person I ever saw with a lined fretless. I thought he was sliding around on a fretted bass until somebody told me he had pulled out his frets!

Like I said, although I am a funk guy, there is disputing Jaco's impact on how bassists saw their instrument.

 

[Matt Till]

Punk is definitely not the opposite of jazz. People tend to define both too strictly. Ornette Coleman's Prime Time was an imitation of proto-punk Captain Beefhearts sound. Television and the Minutemen have very strong jazz influences in their sound. James Blood Ulmer combined the two pretty well.

Hmm, well, here's my deal. First, I certainly don't consider Beefheart to be punk at all. And I personally don't think Television or the Minutemen were punk either. I think they were bands that came from that scene that got labeled as punk because all those groups got mashed together and labeled as one. Example: By modern terms, if a band like Television or the Minutemen or the Police or Elvis Costello or The Talking Heads came out today, would they be labeled "punk?" I'm not talking about MTVs definition of punk, I'm talking about the modern "real" punk scene's definition. I don't think so.

And most punk people don't really like Ornette Coleman or any free jazz. I know I'm stereotyping, and I don't really mean to come off like I am. Regardless, modern terms of punk mean cranking out power chords with NO improv whatsoever. Where as Jazz is almost all improv. Some people just hate improvisation. Sure Jaco is fusion.

And when Jaco called himself "Punk" I found that ridiculous, it would be like if your weird uncle who works as a computer analyst and always wears awful smelling aftershave got a mohawk (but kept the moustache) and wore a some hot topic S&M gear.

If anything his "look" was hippie.

 

[Against Will]

Hmm, well, here's my deal. First, I certainly don't consider Beefheart to be punk at all. And I personally don't think Television or the Minutemen were punk either. I think they were bands that came from that scene that got labeled as punk because all those groups got mashed together and labeled as one. Example: By modern terms, if a band like Television or the Minutemen or the Police or Elvis Costello or The Talking Heads came out today, would they be labeled "punk?" I'm not talking about MTVs definition of punk, I'm talking about the modern "real" punk scene's definition. I don't think so.

And most punk people don't really like Ornette Coleman or any free jazz. I know I'm stereotyping, and I don't really mean to come off like I am. Regardless, modern terms of punk mean cranking out power chords with NO improv whatsoever. Where as Jazz is almost all improv. Some people just hate improvisation. Sure Jaco is fusion.

And when Jaco called himself "Punk" I found that ridiculous, it would be like if your weird uncle who works as a computer analyst and always wears awful smelling aftershave got a mohawk (but kept the moustache) and wore a some hot topic S&M gear.

If anything his "look" was hippie.

Matt, I think you're missing the point trying to be made.

"Punk" is not just a 'look' it's understandable to think of it that way, but the reason Jaco called himself 'punk' because,at the time, meant freedom from rules and old ways of thinking, doing things that were supposed to be wrong and proving they could be right and taking chances etc. He didn't need to wear a mohawk (digression: mohawks weren't de rigeur until the Exploited and crust punks came along, a good 3-4 years after the inital punk explosion in Britain fizzled.) because it wasn't a 'style' or 'look'. Same with the Minutemen and Television.

In addition, I think it's the founders that define the music and everything grows from there, it doesn't matter that most of the punk you hear isn't like the Minutemen or Captain Beefheart. Slipknot and Staind sound nothing like Led Zeppelin (gah! took me forever to spell that) or Black Sabbath, does that mean Zep and Sabbath aren't metal?

Finally, a lot of punks I know are really into Ornette Coleman. Hell, Refused stole their last album name from him. I get the impression that the punks you hang around with are the MTV punks that are told me MTV not to like MTV because it's not punk...