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bassists who don't like jaco

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of course, jaco was a great bass player, but during the late seventies, he started to influence his and weather report's music too much, you know? I can understand that when he plays his own tunes, he wants to be heard, but I think he went over the top more than a few times, example beeing Black Market, where he was the loudest of them all, not even Joe Zawinul had a saying.
But then again, I also love the things he did with Pat Metheny on "Bright Size Life" and with Joni Mitchell on "Hejira", he played truly great and tasty on those records. But his sound was his own, and it's easier to not like his sound then to like his playing.
 
Joe Nerve said:
I can totally understand someone saying Jaco sucks. Here are some quick reasons I can think of:

1. They want to be considered "different" and feel one up on everyone else.
2. They're totally intimidated by the playing, know there's not a chance in hell they're ever going to be able to play any instrument like that, and want to put the guy down in an attempt to make themselves feel better.
3. They're stupid and ignorant.
4. They really know nothing about Jaco whatsoever.
5. They haven't heard enough Jaco.
6. Busy basslines annoy them (as they often do me) and anything they've heard Jaco do simply sounds like noise to them.
7. They like hearing sizzling highs, or reggae like thump.
8. They believe there's beauty in simplicity.
9. They heard Jaco play on his instructional video (where I think he DOES suck).
10. They've never SEEN Jaco play. I think the punks would have a new respect.

I've leanrned to ignore people who say silly things. If someone told me they thought Jaco sucked I'd say, "cool".


Excellent list.....which could be applied to just about anyone saying 'insert artist's name' sucks! :)

Personally, I'm not a fan of Jaco's playing.....the musical style isn't really my thing ,and sometimes ......Im not fond of the tone :eek:

However, I do recognise his contribution to expanding the horizons of bass playing, his technical and musical expertise are not in question, and he most certainly does not suck! I just derive more listening pleasure form different music! :bassist:
 
any1 who doesn't like jaco should listen to the live version of 'Black Market' off the 8:30 album and listen to jaco's infectous groove and b4 u know it u'll b knodding ur head up and down all the way to the record store to by all his stuff. He was the ultimate groover IMO.
Catchyas later.
And to any1 in london i hope ur all safe and well. :)
 
Has anyone read the Jaco book 'the extraordinary and tragic life of Jaco, the worlds greatest bass player?' It was an interesting read that offered great insight into the person that Jaco was. So many people only know him as an eccentric bass player that turned into a real jerk. When I hear these types of remarks it is sad because there is so much more to the story of his life than that. I highly recomend this book to anyone that is a fan or a skeptic. Here is some info I found on the book.


Bill Milkowski's biography of electric bass pioneer Jaco Pastorius provides useful insight into the life and work of an immensely talented and enigmatic musician. This is a free-wheeling account told in turns by Milkowski and, through an extensive body of interviews, the friends, family, and musical associates who populated Pastorius's all-too-brief career, from the 1970s until his death in 1987.

Pastorius began not as a bassist but as a drummer, being largely self-taught on both instruments. Chronic pain in his left wrist (from a football injury) forced him to abandon the drums at age fifteen, and he turned to the electric bass with such motivation that he was soon playing professionally. Milkowski's research is particularly illuminating here, documenting how Pastorius's work with a number of Fort Lauderdale-area bands infused his playing style with a wide range of influences -- including soul, rhythm and blues, funk, reggae, and jazz -- all of which helped him to become "the ultimate groove player" (36). By all accounts, the virtuosic technique and eclectic style that would gain Pastorius worldwide recognition were in evidence as early as 1970; the difficulties with substance abuse and mental illness that would lead to his downfall were not. It is ironic that during such a healthy and creative period of development Pastorius would begin to predict that he would not live past his early thirties.
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The bassist's musical legacy begins with the release of Jaco Pastorius (Epic Records, 1976), a document of eclecticism and stunning virtuosity that influenced not only bassists but improvising musicians in general. Pastorius's performance on guitarist Pat Metheny's first album, Bright Size Life (EMC Records, 1976), also helped him to set some standards that he himself seldom attained and rarely surpassed in later recordings. Drummer Bob Moses completed the trio on Bright Size Life and his accounts of performing live with the group and the period leading up to the recording session are fascinating. Regarding an album that features some of Pastorius's (and, arguably, Metheny's) finest playing, Moses states, "I don't listen to that album. In fact, I've never listened to it. I don't think I got past the first tune. To me, the album is lightweight compared to what we were doing on the gigs" (67).

Pastorius gained more widespread recognition in 1976 when he replaced bassist Alphonso Johnson in the electric jazz group Weather Report, led by keyboardist Josef Zawinul and saxophonist Wayne Shorter, both alumni of Miles Davis's bands. Pastorius had introduced himself to Zawinul the previous year as "the greatest electric bass player in the world" (71), as was his custom. Zawinul dismissed the twenty-three-year-old as a braggart but accepted a demo tape, and the two kept in touch. Zawinul was later convinced that the presence of Pastorius transformed the band and its audience. "He was an electrifying performer and a great musician. And he was really responsible for bringing the white kids to our concerts. We had been popular on college campuses, but after Jaco joined the band we started selfing out big concert halls everywhere. Jaco become some kind of All-American folk hero to these kids" (74).

Performing and recording with Weather Report offered Pastorius an unprecedented level of exposure, and his inability to handle his new fame soon became evident, triggering drug and alcohol abuse and marital difficulties. Pastorius's life changed dramatically at this moment, as does Milkowski's book. Tales of substance abuse and erratic behavior dominate the book after a certain point, and unfortunately any musical commentary by Milkowski himself is lacking in substance and often borders on a sort of hero worship (the author and the bassist were friends in the mid-1980s, and Milkowski is a minor player in some of the anecdotes in the book). To be sure, the sensational tales that fill the latter part of the book were inextricably part of the bassist's final years, but it becomes painfully evident at this point that this book is devoid of any serious critical analysis of Pastorius's music: it contains no notated musical examples, and one attempt, by a Berklee College of Music faculty member, to analyze a Pastorius composition with regards to form and harmony falls flat in this context. A discography is included, but it does not list session dates or material recorded, often omits personnel, and lists performers only by names and not by instrument. An epilogue containing more commentary by Pastorius's musical colleagues provides some interesting anecdotes but is largely redundant: the story has been told at this point, and any worthwhile asides should have been included in the main body of the text.

This is a biography, first and foremost. Readers who are unfamiliar with Pastorius and his music may not fully understand why many believed him to be the "world's greatest bass player." Chasin' the Trane, an early biography of saxophonist John Coltrane by J. C. Thomas (New York: Doubleday, 1975), is similar in several respects. Its most engaging prose comes from Coltrane's friends and colleagues, who portray the saxophonist in such a way as to make him seem larger than life, but the book provides little insight into his musical contributions. In contrast, Bill Cole's John Coltrane (New York: Schirmer, 1976) focuses on how Coltrane helped shape the jazz vocabulary of the fifties and sixties and makes its case through critical analysis and notated musical examples. Perhaps by concentrating almost exclusively on Pastorius's life, Milkowski has inadvertently cleared the way for a more scholarly probe of Pastorius's music.

COPYRIGHT 1997 University of Illinois Press
COPYRIGHT 2004 Gale Group
 
Anybody who says "Jaco sucks" should be ignored. That said, there's no rule that we all have to like him. I appreciate and respect Jaco's genius, but for some unknown reason his tone and style are not my style. I'd rather listen to Jaco's influences James Jamerson and Jerry Jemmott. Other jazz bassists I prefer listening to include Anthony Jackson, William Parker, Stanley Clarke.
 
Alexander said:
I have to admit I'm not a big Jaco fan either - he was clearly very talented, but just not my thing. And his tone was (IMHO) atrocious.
To me this is funny.
Jaco's tone is a big reason why jazz basses are so popular?
 
Mojo-Man said:
Alexander said:
I have to admit I'm not a big Jaco fan either - he was clearly very talented, but just not my thing. And his tone was (IMHO) atrocious.
To me this is funny.
Jaco's tone is a big reason why jazz basses are so popular?


Umm, most Jaco stuff I"ve heard sounds nothing like a regular Jazz you'd pick up in the store. With all his effects and his Acoustic rig's setup, plus defretting the bass and adding epoxy hardly looks "stock" to me... And hate to break it to ya buddy, but people DID play bass on Fenders decades BEFORE Jaco was even known... ;) Plus, I see P's outnumber J's about 5:1. Just like they do most other basses. This whole "The World Began and Ended With Everything Jaco Did" idea of ignorance is what makes me dislike the whole ordeal even more.
 
I like his playing with Weather Report, but his other ventures (including the self titled solo album) don't really do a whole lot for me.

I play a lot of fretless, but I was more influenced by other fretless players (Pino Palladino, Fernando Saunders, Andy Metcalfe with Robyn Hitchcock, etc.) I guess some of those guys were influenced by Jaco, so I guess I'm kinda indirectly influenced by him.
 
rockstarbassist said:
Umm, most Jaco stuff I"ve heard sounds nothing like a regular Jazz you'd pick up in the store. With all his effects and his Acoustic rig's setup, plus defretting the bass and adding epoxy hardly looks "stock" to me...
I agree with Mojo Man. After Jaco, many either bought a Jazz or added a single-coil bridge pickup to their P-basses(Chuck Rainey, Mark Egan, Randy Tico, etc...me). To me, it doesn't take much to get a Jazz in the store to replicate Jaco's tone(BTW, he didn't always play that fretless bass...there's plenty of tracks where it's a fretted Jazz...IIRC, this was a natural wood Jazz, seen on the back photo of Invitation).
Jaco's Jazz did have stock Fender pickups/pots; it was not hot-rodded. AFAIK, the Acoustic amp was nothing spectacular(more bassists woulda used them if they were that great)...he wasn't an Effects-driven player, either.

rockstarbassist said:
And hate to break it to ya buddy, but people DID play bass on Fenders decades BEFORE Jaco was even known...
Decades?
The Jazz came out about 1960. Jaco was 'known' in the early '70s...probably worldwide by '75.
 
Joe Nerve said:
I can totally understand someone saying Jaco sucks. Here are some quick reasons I can think of:........

9. They heard Jaco play on his instructional video (where I think he DOES suck).
10. They've never SEEN Jaco play. I think the punks would have a new respect.

Thanks for the enlightenment I was gonna pay the absurd amount of $$ for that video. And if you've seen Jaco play, indeed you would and should have respect for someone that talented. His tone is ok IMO, but not atrocious. Fieldy's tone is downright despicable. I think Jaco is definitely one (and will be ) of the most influential bassists EVER. I also enjoy his music, as it is an acquired taste I don't expect all of my heavy metal listening friends to dig him at all. I mention Jaco Pastorius, and they say "who?" I play some music for them and they say hey this is pretty decent who is this? ;) Go figure. What do you think the bass playing world would be like today without "Portrait of Tracy?"


Oog
 
Wow. I feel a lot of violent emotion bubbling in this thread.

Now, I wonder if people are interpreting the word "sucks" right.

I personally am not a fan of Jaco's music, but I still appreciate his technique, innovation, and the care he put into his work. Does this mean I think he sucks? Well, I wouldn't put it that way, but other people might think from that statement, "TyKao thinks Jaco sucks." "Sucks" is a dumb word that can cause a lot of confusion as to what the speaker actually means.

So if someone says "Jaco Pastorious sucks," to mean "I don't like his music," I don't think you can validly say his aesthetic opinion is any worse than yours. The idea of artistic worth and enjoyability being a truly rational measure is kind of absurd. But if a person says "Jaco sucks" to mean he can't play and has no chops, then he or she is probably not very perceptive.
 
I'm as big a Jacophile as you'll find anywhere, but I know there's more to bass than him. For instance, I love Ray Brown and Squarepusher.

Anyway, if someone doesn't dig Jaco, that's fine with me. I have no problem with that. His playing was quite "busy" for many ears.

As an aside, reading this thread blows me away when people say they don't like his tone. Wow. Okay. That's fine. But for me, that's the absolute sonic model I aim for every time I pick up my bass(es).

And be careful with the Milkowski book. Take it with a grain of salt. It was not authorized or endorsed by the Pastorius family. In fact, they say they have some real problems with how Jaco and certain situations were portrayed.
 
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