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bassists who don't like jaco

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#43
Vysous said:
Why do people often forget at Miroslav Vitous, first bass player of Weather Report... This the BASSIST, doesn't matter if he played the double bass or the electric bass.... He was lost in shadow of Jaco, but he is GREAT"
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Miroslav is bad.
Wanna hear a bad-ass bowed URB solo? Check out the Woodstock Jazz Festival DVD(w/ Metheny, Corea, DeJohnette; Anthony Braxton also does a mind blowin' solo on "Impressions").

What I read somewhere about Miroslav leaving Weather Report(IIRC, the source is Stuart Nicholson Jazz Rock: A History)-
Basically, Zawinul did not like Vitous' bass playing; he told Shorter he goes or I quit.

Did Miroslav get dissed on the back cover of Mysterious Traveller or what?!
 
#45
Wrong Robot said:
I don't forget him, I'm just not too fond of really early weather report, as much as I am later weather report.
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'Bot-
I know you're an open listener.
Go back & re-visit those early WR discs.
Definitely more esoteric(perhaps), 'free', & a whole lot more Wayne...the Miles' Bitches Brew/In A Silent Way vibe is apparent.
 
#47
Against Will said:
Finally, a lot of punks I know are really into Ornette Coleman. Hell, Refused stole their last album name from him. I get the impression that the punks you hang around with are the MTV punks that are told me MTV not to like MTV because it's not punk...
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Will-
For awhile, I didn't believe it, either...I used to hang out at a certain Jazz site & many, many that were into Punk music(the early stuff: Iggy Pop, NY Dolls, et al) were the ones championing Free Jazz.
I generally rolled my eyes 'cause I always viewed Jazz(even the 'free/outside' stuff) as technical, studied, hours upon hours of practice, blah. Punk, to me, was the antithesis of all that.
Regardless, after a few online battles & some books...I pretty much can see why a Punk may dig Ornette.
Free Jazz can be seen as a thumbing of the nose at conventions...just as early, pre-watered down Punk music.
 
#48
JimK said:
Did Miroslav get dissed on the back cover of Mysterious Traveller or what?!
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that was pretty funny. multiple pictures of everyone in the band and then half of a miroslav. classic. i think zawinul said miroslav should have been a guitar player in an article a while back. then in those videos that are online with jeff berlin playing with m.v., he says that weather report was getting too commercial.

in retrospect it kind of made sense though. once those sweetnighter grooves started coming up, miroslav sounded kind of out of his element.
 
#49
When I was 17, anyone who i didn't think was my absolute favorite (bassist, guitarist, drummer, etc) I thought "sucked".
There always seemed to be this competition-thing going and one side was great and the other sucked.
Dio rules - therefore Ozzy sucks
For example, for the longest time I thought Angus Young sucked on guitar. It was only because I had liked him early on before my musical tastes "grew" and because AC/DC's music was simpler than what I liked. I was stupid and ignorant and so is your friend.
 
#51
I respect Jaco as a player but I don't dig his sound at all. Its too twangy and kind of boring/annoying. I know he's good and I can tell he's a virtuoso but I can't listen to it for any sort of prolonged period of time.

Entwistle and McCartney made some music I could listen to and were also very good players.
 
#53
Against Will said:
Matt, I think you're missing the point trying to be made.

"Punk" is not just a 'look' it's understandable to think of it that way, but the reason Jaco called himself 'punk' because,at the time, meant freedom from rules and old ways of thinking, doing things that were supposed to be wrong and proving they could be right and taking chances etc. He didn't need to wear a mohawk (digression: mohawks weren't de rigeur until the Exploited and crust punks came along, a good 3-4 years after the inital punk explosion in Britain fizzled.) because it wasn't a 'style' or 'look'. Same with the Minutemen and Television.

In addition, I think it's the founders that define the music and everything grows from there, it doesn't matter that most of the punk you hear isn't like the Minutemen or Captain Beefheart. Slipknot and Staind sound nothing like Led Zeppelin (gah! took me forever to spell that) or Black Sabbath, does that mean Zep and Sabbath aren't metal?

Finally, a lot of punks I know are really into Ornette Coleman. Hell, Refused stole their last album name from him. I get the impression that the punks you hang around with are the MTV punks that are told me MTV not to like MTV because it's not punk...
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No, there not MTV punks... punk right now is a joke, be it real or MTV. It's a dead horse that's been kicked for the longest time now. And it started out a joke too. Punk is just what they called the kids who made rock at the time. I know punk isn't a style, I just made the "Mohawk" comment as a comparison, Jaco was a hippie as far as his spirit went it seemed, unless being "punk" is being an egotistical hippie, in which case, sure Jaco was punk.

There was a Joe Strummer quote I heard that went something like, "Punk rock stops being punk rock when it starts calling itself punk rock." And that's why I hate all the kids who call themselves "Punk"... Jaco included. But that goes for all genres. I mean, Jazz guys don't walk around saying, "Phhht, I'm more Jazz than you are, I totally saw Thelonious Monk and I only like old Jazz, no fusion, so I'm more Jazz than you are."
 
#54
Matt Till said:
I mean, Jazz guys don't walk around saying, "Phhht, I'm more Jazz than you are, I totally saw Thelonious Monk and I only like old Jazz, no fusion, so I'm more Jazz than you are."
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Well, they do in a way. I forget who the bandleader was, I want to say it was Benny Goodman, but I'm probably wrong, called bebop "Chinese Music" and Jelly Roll Morton had plenty of disparging things to say about his rival bandleaders that were adopting 'swing' style jazz.

Eltists of any stripe suck, indupitably, but that shouldn't distract from the genuine contributions and works of art of the greats that they try to idolize.
 
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