ras1983 said:Ask the average person on the street to name you one song that jaco played on. Chances are hardly anyone knows of him or his music outside of the bass world.
Since when does success equate quality?
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bassists who don't like jaco
- Thread starter Janas
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Since when does success equate quality?
funkedupbass said:
(sigh)
Well, I suppose people have the *right* to say that... it's a free country, and we all have the right to be wrong, as my dad used to say. But posting "Jaco sucks" will cause most people here to ignore your comments, and for good reason. It's a meaningless derogatory statement, and factually untrue. It's one thing to say "I don't like Jaco's style", or "I thought he overplayed"... those are matters of opinion. But Jaco had musical and technical skills second to none.
To reference another post: sorry, but saying "(Somebody) sucks" is absolutely NOT the same thing as saying "I don't care for (Somebody)". Well, it's often the same at the grade school level, but we should all aspire to a much higher level of conversation.
Well, I have read some fine opinions and some colorful ones too. But as we all know opinions are like A..H.... everyone has one. Realistically though, Jaco was a master craftsman when it came to being original in his composing and improvising style as well as his sound/tone. Especially when it came to fusion jazz that came to the forefront in the 70's. For those who say "JACO SUCKS" well I reply "It's tough being the top dog" I'm out ...........
I'm sorry. I really shouldn't have gotten involved. I apologize for contributing to all of this nazi book burning comming from everywhere. It was really my hatred for Hemmingway that lead to this path and becomiing involved.
DAMN YOU HEMMINGWAY!!!
take care,
-eric
DAMN YOU HEMMINGWAY!!!
take care,
-eric
Jazzany said:
But that list is only your opinion of the requirements needed for a player to be considered great. Others may have a different view of greatness. You're stating your opinion of greatness as if it were fact.
For example, something I would add to that list would be emotion. In my opinion, the most flashy, technical player in the world is not impressive to me if he doesn't play with emotion, and soul. Not to say that Jaco didn't.
Also, you say you probably have the music of any good bassplayer? What about Steve DiGiorgio? His playing fits all of your requirements (and mine) and he has influenced hundreds (if not thousands) of bassists in his genre. Why is he not as great (if not greater) than Jaco?
Oh, and Hemmingway most certainly does not suck!
Graeme
Sorry for the delay.....
I cleaned it up a little, to those who are missing posts... PM me if you have an issue with it. I'm just trying to keep it civil. Please report anything out of line and j-raj and I will take care of it
I cleaned it up a little, to those who are missing posts... PM me if you have an issue with it. I'm just trying to keep it civil. Please report anything out of line and j-raj and I will take care of it
Obviously Jaco has enough fans to generate this kind of response. That alone does not make him the greatest. You could argue for or against a number of 'famous' bass players and get similar responses.
The bottom line is personal preference. I respect him. In his prime he was one of the best. Do I like him? In a way, yes. In a way, no.
It all comes down to preference.
Everyone calm down now.
We're all still playing the same instrument. Which is why we're here.
The bottom line is personal preference. I respect him. In his prime he was one of the best. Do I like him? In a way, yes. In a way, no.
It all comes down to preference.
Everyone calm down now.
We're all still playing the same instrument. Which is why we're here.
i play punk rock since i picked up the bass.i love jaco and his music.when you say a guy who plays punk wont lisent to a player who plays jazz thats a close minded thinking.
if you are a bass player you should check out as many bassist as possible.
yes i do a lots of busy bass lines if it came from jaco i dont know.i even have a jaco tattoo on my wrist and punx on my leg..go figure.
if you are a bass player you should check out as many bassist as possible.
yes i do a lots of busy bass lines if it came from jaco i dont know.i even have a jaco tattoo on my wrist and punx on my leg..go figure.
The various opinions expressed in this thread are bouncing around a lot because a variety of topics are at issue, and the back and forth is going cross-wise.
What are the issues?
Jaco's playing (as referenced in the opening post):
Curiously, compositional skill, at which Jaco excelled, was left out. For pure playing, this is a funny topic to me. It is kind of like a bunch of sax players arguing over whether Charlie Parker was a great sax player. If you check out Jaco's appearance (not playing) in Jeff Berlin's instructional video, I believe you'll get his (somewhat hilarious) point about the whole chops - competition thing. He was an original (which few can claim) and capable of being an astounding performer; but we shouldn't forget that he was also a regular Joe.
One person's right to hold their own opinion or preference:
Everyone certainly has the right to view art in their own way. Diversity is what makes this culture and art form great. It is essential. If someone doesn't care for Jaco's music, then I just hope they are spending more time caring about something else.
Hemingway:
I missed the connection. However, IMO, the opening two pages in "The Old Man and the Sea," are as powerful as any piece of fictional writing in the English Language; and shouldn't be missed, even if you don't care for the author.
What are the issues?
Jaco's playing (as referenced in the opening post):
Curiously, compositional skill, at which Jaco excelled, was left out. For pure playing, this is a funny topic to me. It is kind of like a bunch of sax players arguing over whether Charlie Parker was a great sax player. If you check out Jaco's appearance (not playing) in Jeff Berlin's instructional video, I believe you'll get his (somewhat hilarious) point about the whole chops - competition thing. He was an original (which few can claim) and capable of being an astounding performer; but we shouldn't forget that he was also a regular Joe.
One person's right to hold their own opinion or preference:
Everyone certainly has the right to view art in their own way. Diversity is what makes this culture and art form great. It is essential. If someone doesn't care for Jaco's music, then I just hope they are spending more time caring about something else.
Hemingway:
I missed the connection. However, IMO, the opening two pages in "The Old Man and the Sea," are as powerful as any piece of fictional writing in the English Language; and shouldn't be missed, even if you don't care for the author.
I've not been here for a while and so haven't posted anything in this thread.
My experience of Jaco is extremely limited. I have an Ian Hunter album, where he plays a really really nice little bass solo on the title track 'All American alien boy'. Great tone, brilliant playing. When that album came out, I'd seriously never heard anything else like him. From that alone, I could see just where the fuss about him came from.
I have more recently heard his well-known instrumental 'Pictures of Tracy' and while I can appreciate his style and technique, it doesn't do a lot for me, as my background is more classic rock and power pop. My problem - no-one else's!
I would never dream of calling another bass player crap (apart from Sid Vicious who was there because he looked right, basically never was plugged in or never had his volume turned up!). But even in his case, he fulfilled his function in the band as required perfectly!
Poeple who call another obviously technically advanced player crap (or say they suck) is obviously struggling with some personal issues. Better to just be honest and say "it does nothing for me".
My experience of Jaco is extremely limited. I have an Ian Hunter album, where he plays a really really nice little bass solo on the title track 'All American alien boy'. Great tone, brilliant playing. When that album came out, I'd seriously never heard anything else like him. From that alone, I could see just where the fuss about him came from.
I have more recently heard his well-known instrumental 'Pictures of Tracy' and while I can appreciate his style and technique, it doesn't do a lot for me, as my background is more classic rock and power pop. My problem - no-one else's!
I would never dream of calling another bass player crap (apart from Sid Vicious who was there because he looked right, basically never was plugged in or never had his volume turned up!). But even in his case, he fulfilled his function in the band as required perfectly!
Poeple who call another obviously technically advanced player crap (or say they suck) is obviously struggling with some personal issues. Better to just be honest and say "it does nothing for me".
I don't like any of his composition horn stuff on stuff like word of mouth, but I like his bass playing.
FunkKing said:
i wasn't referring to quality. i was referring to affecting the musical landscape. Like i said, i like jaco's work. Jamerson undoubtedly changed the face of bass playing completely. in fact, jamerson (and the motown documentary "standing in the shadows of motown" says this) changed music . It would be fair to suggest that one of jaco's main (like pretty much every bass player who's interviews i have read) influences would have been jamerson. so if jaco has had the biggest impact on the bass, yet jaco was influenced by jamerson, who was the bigger influence?
Jaco was a genious. If you study him, that really can't be argued. That being said, you surely don't have to like him.
But he was a genious. One of the very few. Herbie Hancock puts him up there with miles. (Not saying I agree with that but....you can't really ignore Herbie.)
The way he revolutionised the bass guitar. Yeah, bass was upfront in funk, and you had stanley. But you got to understand: The attitude Jaco had towards learning.. He said at an early age: I'm going to make this non-instrument an instrument!
You may call him too self-confident. But he was that kind of person. And it was partly that who made him so great. Great, you say? There are thousands of players who have surpassed him! Well, remember that Jaco did not have himself to copy. He had to listen to bebop-players, double bass-players and so on. And his technique was flawless. He's not like jimmi hendrix, who have technically been surpassed by every working guitarist in the industry. How many bassist today can get in the studio and record Donna Lee, with solo, and make it sound as good, clean and perfect as Jaco? On one take? There's not too many of em.
And he discovered all these tings on his own. That's only his technique, to my opinion he had a feel and emotion in his playing that very few manage to express too.
And if you listen too all the great compositions and arrangements. You can't really argue his genious. Study, and listen to songs like Portrait of Tracy, Havona, Three Views of a Secret,(Amazingly beautiful) John and Mary, Continuum and Liberty City. By the way, did you know that he learned to arrange the way he did, in one night?
Wrong Robot, I understand what you say about jaco only repeating his signature licks, and that makes him not so interesting basswise. But I think that's most valid on the numerous later live-recordings you find of him, or the "slang solo.". Listen to his solos on Donna Lee, Havona, Bright Size Life, CONTINUUM, his work with Joni Mitchell, and the fantastic groove on black market. (Or havona, for that sake.) That's the prime work of Jaco and that is stuff I really think is valuable from a bassists point of view as well.
But he was a genious. One of the very few. Herbie Hancock puts him up there with miles. (Not saying I agree with that but....you can't really ignore Herbie.)
The way he revolutionised the bass guitar. Yeah, bass was upfront in funk, and you had stanley. But you got to understand: The attitude Jaco had towards learning.. He said at an early age: I'm going to make this non-instrument an instrument!
You may call him too self-confident. But he was that kind of person. And it was partly that who made him so great. Great, you say? There are thousands of players who have surpassed him! Well, remember that Jaco did not have himself to copy. He had to listen to bebop-players, double bass-players and so on. And his technique was flawless. He's not like jimmi hendrix, who have technically been surpassed by every working guitarist in the industry. How many bassist today can get in the studio and record Donna Lee, with solo, and make it sound as good, clean and perfect as Jaco? On one take? There's not too many of em.
And he discovered all these tings on his own. That's only his technique, to my opinion he had a feel and emotion in his playing that very few manage to express too.
And if you listen too all the great compositions and arrangements. You can't really argue his genious. Study, and listen to songs like Portrait of Tracy, Havona, Three Views of a Secret,(Amazingly beautiful) John and Mary, Continuum and Liberty City. By the way, did you know that he learned to arrange the way he did, in one night?
Wrong Robot, I understand what you say about jaco only repeating his signature licks, and that makes him not so interesting basswise. But I think that's most valid on the numerous later live-recordings you find of him, or the "slang solo.". Listen to his solos on Donna Lee, Havona, Bright Size Life, CONTINUUM, his work with Joni Mitchell, and the fantastic groove on black market. (Or havona, for that sake.) That's the prime work of Jaco and that is stuff I really think is valuable from a bassists point of view as well.
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