Like...the norm.
Even back with my originals band. What kind of music doesn't make people move? Oh yeah...the kind where they can't feel the drums or bass.
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BECAUSE THERE IS NO PA!!!
- Thread starter father of fires
- Start date
Like...the norm.
Even back with my originals band. What kind of music doesn't make people move? Oh yeah...the kind where they can't feel the drums or bass.
I've played about every manner of gig there is for over 40 years. If you've got good sound reinforcement, terrific, end of story.
I always bring plenty of rig because many of the places I work now don't have anything more than a vocal system... say a pair of JBL Eons ... that might support a little kick, but certainly nothing I would count on for getting the booty out... It's a lot more pleasant to bring more than you need than to suffer playing through some tiny rig trying to keep up - I hear guys doing it and it's just sad. The amp's sweating bullets, they lose their dynamic range...I've sat in in plenty of situations where I would not find the stage rig acceptable.
Everyone's free to do what they like, but I'd rather dolly in something I like than stroll in with a flyswatter. Just my opinion.
I always bring plenty of rig because many of the places I work now don't have anything more than a vocal system... say a pair of JBL Eons ... that might support a little kick, but certainly nothing I would count on for getting the booty out... It's a lot more pleasant to bring more than you need than to suffer playing through some tiny rig trying to keep up - I hear guys doing it and it's just sad. The amp's sweating bullets, they lose their dynamic range...I've sat in in plenty of situations where I would not find the stage rig acceptable.
Everyone's free to do what they like, but I'd rather dolly in something I like than stroll in with a flyswatter. Just my opinion.
Best of luck with the little one.
I understand the need to be heard and therefore putting the money into the bass rig. But IMO, the money is better spent on a decent set of subs and amps so the whole rhythm section is heard and felt equally well. Thus being little need for a monster personal rig and much better overall sound.
Two 4000 watt QSC power amps driving two JBL SRX728 subs kind of negate the need for a powerful personal bass rig to "carry the room" and the rhythm section benefits as well, thus the whole band does...even when we aren't very loud. Best bass rig I ever bought. Certainly "carries" any room.
Allows me to use only a 210 onstage for most gigs and two 210's for outdoor larger gigs. Drummer gets to use it too. 
Best of luck with the little one.
I understand the need to be heard and therefore putting the money into the bass rig. But IMO, the money is better spent on a decent set of subs and amps so the whole rhythm section is heard and felt equally well. Thus being little need for a monster personal rig and much better overall sound.
Two 4000 watt QSC power amps driving two JBL SRX728 subs kind of negate the need for a powerful personal bass rig to "carry the room" and the entire rhythm section benefits all the more, thus the whole band does...even when we aren't very loud. Best bass rig I ever bought.
+1,000,000
The drums may seem really loud to you up on stage, but at the back of the room they are not. Sure the snare and cymbals carry, but the bass drum drops off big time once you leave the stage.
If you want your bass and the drums to give that "punch in the chest" sound/feel to the back of the room, you have to have a decent PA
Or a decent bass rig and an 18 to carry the kickdrum.
No doubt that's the best answer but it's not an option for a lot of these bands. Especially with a lot of original music bands. Yes, you want to sound the best you can with what you've got but if some big recording outfit picks you up and decides to give you a go, none of that's going to matter. Your "recorded sound" and your "live sound" is going to be pre-determined and all your fancy equipment (or lack thereof) will have nothing to do with it. So you're left with getting the best sound you can with what's available until that happens.
Or a decent bass rig and an 18 to carry the kickdrum.
No doubt that's the best answer but it's not an option for a lot of these bands. Especially with a lot of original music bands. Yes, you want to sound the best you can with what you've got but if some big recording outfit picks you up and decides to give you a go, none of that's going to matter. Your "recorded sound" and your "live sound" is going to be pre-determined and all your fancy equipment (or lack thereof) will have nothing to do with it. So you're left with getting the best sound you can with what's available until that happens.
There is more to a drum set than the kick drum. Us bass players wouldn't want only the sounds coming from our low B or E string to be heard, would we?
Once a band gets to a level where their gigs/PA are out of their control that is a whole different set of issues to deal with. For originals bands that haven't made it big, I feel (having been in one) that a good PA is even more necessary. Since people are going to judge you based on music they've never heard, I find the best possible mix out front makes your "original" unknown music all the more appealing. It's tough enough playing originals to people without also sounding like crap to boot.
I bought an entire PA for my first band when I was 16. I went to school, worked two jobs and played in a band. There just is no reason to not get the right tools for the job and IMO too many musicians leave the PA to someone else. The problem is there are too many someone else's out there that feel the same way.
I've only partially read through this thread, but IME nothing replaces a good PA. We show up at every gig confident in our sound support because we bring it. There are a few gigs we do that have "house" PA, most noteworthy is the 400+ venue we play this weekend. At one time, their PA was "state of the art" actually had fifteen 15" JBL speakers on each side of the stage, commercial monitors, racks of power amps, you name it, this place had it. Had it is the operable term here, every time we've played there in the last year the bands before us have systematically destroyed the equipment to the point we unload our PA when we gig there.
Honestly, I don't know why any club would provide PA unless you have a full time sound tech who happens to crush skulls as a hobby when discourteous "musicians" play with stuff that doesn't belong to them and use it like they stole it.
My 2 cents, build a PA to your liking, learn how to use it, and bring it everytime.
Honestly, I don't know why any club would provide PA unless you have a full time sound tech who happens to crush skulls as a hobby when discourteous "musicians" play with stuff that doesn't belong to them and use it like they stole it.
My 2 cents, build a PA to your liking, learn how to use it, and bring it everytime.
Get this - my 3-guitarist band carries a PA, through which all guitars, vocals, even the kick and snare go through, and are afraid to run my bass through it, thinking it will blow the speakers! Believe it or not, a well-positioned and tilted 12-inch neo cab usually suffices, given the gigs usually aren't that big.
The singer runs the board!
The singer runs the board!
There is a lot more to a drumset than the kickdrum. Point here is you work with what you have and make the best of it. The OP wondered why the lack of room-filling bass rigs and the concentration on PA's. In some (ideal) situations that's entirely true, in a lot of situations, it is not. Not that having a good PA and a good person to operate it wouldn't sound better, it will, just that in a lot of situations, that's not an option.
Bolded for importance. There's the real reason why you need a loud amp!
My biggest gripe about loud amps isn't people owning them. Its them overkilling every venue they play at, at least around here. People don't often realize how loud they need to be. Plus when you have less overall stage volume (even without FOH support) you can all hear eachother better and play better.
I've played through big amps most of my 'career'. Hence the tinnitus.
+1. I'm our band's sound guy.
I figure it makes me a pretty useful bass player.
What sets me apart from other bass players, and also helps me to get gigs?
-I cook, I clean, I vacuum. (Not even kidding on this one sadly, I'm the band mom)
-I do arranging for the band's songs.
-I own a PA system and microphones and know how to use it
If I ever learn how to sing I'll be a tour de force!
Yeah, and I pointed out the "room filling" bass rig I use. Drummer gets to use it too.
Makes a personal rig less important and far better overall for the entire band. I don't discount the need for a personal rig that does the job if one lacks a PA to handle it. I'm simply pointing out that perhaps instead of spending thousands of dollars over the years constantly upgrading and redoing our personal rigs just to "carry the room" with "our" tone, perhaps the more worthwhile investment is in making our "personal" rig one the whole band can use, allowing us to use smaller stage rigs as nothing more than monitors and simultaneously providing much better sound for the whole band. Why not (as bass players) take on the responsibility of the low end in the PA instead of just for our own personal rigs? You want control over the bass volume and tone? Buy and run the PA. Who's going to argue with you?
Just look at all the threads on bass rig rack systems using high wattage power amps and big cabs. Why not use that line of thinking for the PA subs instead and improve the sound for everyone? Bass player still gets gobs of power, truly deep low end one can feel on stage and a whole lot less to carry personally. Drums (the whole kit) carried through it too. Tight, bowel moving low end rhythm section if desired. Win all the way around.
Think of this thread and many with complaints about having to "carry the room". Buy the PA (or at least the power amps and sub cabs) yourself. Problem TOTALLY solved without even touching your personal rig. I just hear too many complaints from bass players who only care about "their" tone and volume but don't actually do anything about it, save for upgrading their own rig (which keeps getting "upgraded"). Buy a PA and be forever done with it.
Just sayin'.
I agree that after a point, a point that is far closer than some want to think, the investment in a good bass rig becomes null and void. If you want to make your whole band, whole product, sound better the PA is the way to go. Just saying that requires a guy out front to operate the thing and a band with the investment and depending on your situation it may or may not make a difference.
If you're a successful showband that can get the partygigs then you bet it does. If you're an original music band that's going for all or nothing it doesn't matter that much as it's just a temporary vehicle to get you where you're going.
If you're in-between, it's a trade-off etc.
If you're a successful showband that can get the partygigs then you bet it does. If you're an original music band that's going for all or nothing it doesn't matter that much as it's just a temporary vehicle to get you where you're going.
If you're in-between, it's a trade-off etc.
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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It is really a shame that the music business sucks so much. The economics just doesn't add up. A young musician has to buy an expensive bass and rig. Then he has to take years to master his trade. Then he has to spend years playing dives for very little money. Then his band has to come up with several thousand dollars to put together a good pa system. Then if they get signed the record label takes a big chunk of the money up front and then the rest gets split up by the under paid musicians.
Get a good paying day job so you can afford a good pa. Otherwise your band will suck.
Wierd isn't it? It almost seems as if some of us enjoy the feeling of beating our heads against the wall doesn't it?
Wierd isn't it? It almost seems as if some of us enjoy the feeling of beating our heads against the wall doesn't it?
And thus, the "headbanger" was born. Some think it has something to do with the music when in reality it's in reaction to the music business.
Achieving success in the music biz is a contradiction akin to obtaining credit.
A good PA is cheap. 808 style combos go for around $500 used and you can grab two used 15's for two or three hundred. And some used monitors for less. Add some good mic's and stands at $150 each. So for about a thousand you got a good PA that can bounce most places.
I remember debating pay with a band "manager" and they would always bring up that they "brought the PA." My answer was that any pro in this business has a PA and I would bring mine anytime
I remember debating pay with a band "manager" and they would always bring up that they "brought the PA." My answer was that any pro in this business has a PA and I would bring mine anytime
And thus, the "headbanger" was born. Some think it has something to do with the music when in reality it's in reaction to the music business.
Achieving success in the music biz is a contradiction akin to obtaining credit.
An excellent point I must say...
No.
E-drums are not electric drums. They are electronic drums. Big difference, it's like asking you to play bass on a guitar hero controller. Even if you get a nice tone, and no one except other musicians can tell, it feels horrible to play.
Very true. My band's playing in a venue about 20m by 20m this Friday; when we tried out the sound, with the house amps (75w guitar amp, 200w bass amp and keyboard was running through a 120w guitar amp, vocals through PA) the guitars and bass easily overpowered the unmic-ed drums.
Amen. You don't even have to go to the back of the room to not hear the drums!
A big +1 to a big "no" on electric drums. Also a big "no" on drummers who use triggers on their real drums because it turns them into "electronic drums". If metal guitar player want to tune down 3 steps and can still play the instrument...fine. If drummer wants to tune down to have deep/reverberating drums....fine, if they're the real instrument just being played a different way. If they want to have some electronic weird reproduction of what it's supposed to sound like take the place of what it's supposed to sound like, sorry, that's it. It's kind of like classifying rap as music instead of performance art or spoken word.
I understand I may have pissed off more than a few people by saying that......that's why I said it.
I understand I may have pissed off more than a few people by saying that......that's why I said it.
