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Beginner Financial Investing.

A sweet quote from yesterday :

“If the U.S. government allows Fannie and Freddie to fail and international investors are not compensated adequately, the consequences will be catastrophic,'' former Chinese central bank chief Yu Yongding told Bloomberg today. “If it is not the end of the world, it is the end of the current international financial system.''

I've read that pay off Fannie and Freddie's debts could *double* the current US debt.
 
I've read that pay off Fannie and Freddie's debts could *double* the current US debt.
That's just great, man...I already moved my target date for retirement about seven times! Now it's all clear to me- I can't retire until I'm 243 years old! ;)

This is all planned and orchestrated. It's deliberate. It's the way they will control the world. Break the world's monetary system! Brilliant! :rollno:
 
IMHO, the shareholders are on their own. If there is no equity in Fannie or Freddie, then the shareholders are SOL. But, if Mr. Yu was referring to the debt obligations, I would tend to agree with him.

I still don't buy the worst case scenario on Fannie and Freddie debt - ie that it would be a significant drain on the US budget.
 
IMHO, the shareholders are on their own. If there is no equity in Fannie or Freddie, then the shareholders are SOL. But, if Mr. Yu was referring to the debt obligations, I would tend to agree with him.

I still don't buy the worst case scenario on Fannie and Freddie debt - ie that it would be a significant drain on the US budget.

Yes, he's talking about the bondholders.

The "official" worst case numbers are laughably naive. It'll cost the taxpayer far more than the current worst case estimates.

Then factor the cost to all the poor stuckholders that are holding equities all the way down because those in gov't and at the Fed (past and present) said repeatedly that it'll all be over soon with minimal impact to the economy. And the markets have much farther down to go, which will happen soon. Whatever people have lost in the markets the past year, that amount is about to double at least.

Etcetera. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Etcetera. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20080824-9999-1n24repo.html

Be sure to see the new film "I.O.U.S.A." Invalid Link Removed That'll give a good picture of the real worst case, and even it is understated since most of it was filmed before the crash got underway and certainly before the Fannie/Freddie debacle that's just getting started.

----------

As I've predicted for some time, local governments will be going bust en-masse. The dominos are starting to fall.

Invalid Link Removed

"The Tyrone Town Council got a huge dose of reality Thursday night.

“We’re broke,”said Finance Director Mary Sturm."

-------------

Housing bust, building steam.

Invalid Link Removed

"Owning a home is the American dream,” says Jamie Schrole, a Merced real estate agent. “Everybody was just trying to live out their dream.”

The belief that this dream could be achieved with no risk, no worry and no money down was at the center of the American romance with real estate in the early years of this decade, and not just in Merced.

How long will the economy have to pay the price for that illusion? The experience of Merced, which rose higher and fell faster than nearly anywhere else, suggests that recovery from the national real estate debacle will be painful and protracted.

In the three years since housing peaked here, the median sales price has fallen by 50 percent. There are thousands of foreclosures on the market. The asking prices on those properties are so low that competitive bidding, a hallmark of the boom, is back.

But almost no homeowner can afford to sell. If you cannot go as low as “the foreclosure price” — the cost of a comparable bank-owned house — real estate agents say you might as well not even bother listing your home.

And so most people do not: three out of four existing-home sales in Merced County are now foreclosures, ..."


:rollno: :hmm:
 
We're in great shape, economy-wise. There is no inflation. Banks are still flush with cash, as are our politicians. The repo rate is very low- under 10%, I'm told, and the number of foreclosures is dropping as the housing mess continues to improve.

That's the picture coming at us from the media, and from the government, and they wouldn't cook the books, now would they? :eyebrow:

Yes, things are ugly in the "real world" that most of us live in. Those of us who are the responsible ones and keep our jobs, pay our bills, etc. are going to shoulder more and more of the burden, until we break. Then there will be a mess. I'm trying to set aside enough for 6 months of living expenses, and let me tell you, that's no easy task. Add in the fact that we've seen trriple-digit inflation in the prices of fuels and electricity, and property taxes are going up again next year to help cover these costs for local municipalities, and the spectre of "inflation creep" starts making more and more of an impact. The county where I live has laid off many in the IT field, my ex-bandmate included. Good times...they've outsourced (yet again) jobs that Americans "just won't do". Huh. I just won't do it if you take it away from me.

Wages are dropping as fast as a depleted uranium sabot fired from a tank in the Iraq desert, and this is what we have to look forward to? All in the name of profits, my good man, all in the name of profits...

So many issues, so little time...
 
The "official" worst case numbers are laughably naive. It'll cost the taxpayer far more than the current worst case estimates.

Then factor the cost to all the poor stuckholders that are holding equities all the way down because those in gov't and at the Fed (past and present) said repeatedly that it'll all be over soon with minimal impact to the economy.

And the markets have much farther down to go, which will happen soon. Whatever people have lost in the markets the past year, that amount is about to double at least.


And so it goes. I've covered most shorts now, but am not about to go long. Mostly I'm playing options straddles so I'm safe no matter which way the swings go. Been doing very well indeed, and I hope readers of this thread have too.

Might be a bounce here, especially now that there's this bizarre twist of government and so-called consrevatives doing the right thing by kiboshing Paulson's bailout for his old cronies on Wall St.

Can it be the end of blatant theft from the taxpayer? The end of Wall Street's careful placement of puppets in high government offices working to the Fat Cats' benefit?

Surely not for long, but it's nice to see once in awhile. Things may be different when more counties start going bankrupt, and eventually entire states.

Markets want to go lower, including housing. Stay out or stay hedged.
 
SMASH, good to hear from you again. You called today's bounce - I'm thinking it might be of the recently deceased feline variety.

It has been difficult to tell the good guys from the bad guys on the bailout drama. I'm in Barney Frank's district and I like the guy. He has a good grasp of this stuff but he may be a bit too close to the Wall Street boys on this. Although it almost looks like rather than negotiate with Bush, Bernanke and Paulson, he should be negotiating with the conservative/populists (Dem and Rep) in the House to come up with a veto-proof bill with real teeth and real equity participation for the taxpayer. Three Massachusetts reps (all Dems) voted against the bills and I heard one on the radio (Steven Lynch from South Boston) and he made a lot of sense to me.

I am definitely lightening up on the stock exposure as we are probably in a recession right now. I have bought a few things lately (Berkshire Hathaway is one; I love the idea that Warren Buffet is working for me); I bought some Compass Minerals yesterday - it didn't make sense that the best run supplier of road salt should have had a 10% decline in its business because Congress takes a extra couple of days to figure out how to keep the credit markets open. Global warming is the only thing that could cause that ;). Other than that I am mightily resisting my natural inclination to try to catch falling knifes.

I agree that it may be the end (at least for while) about the blatant theft. We can only hope at this point.
 
Panic has not yet set in, which it may today, but I think it will take a while for the credit markets to recover, judging by the LIBOR and other metrics. The trust of the banks has been breached, and perhaps more importantly, the people's trust has been betrayed. Look for a long, painful recovery on this one, as good as it is that the thieves have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar. IMO, YMMV, etc., etc...
 
Panic has not yet set in, which it may today, but I think it will take a while for the credit markets to recover, judging by the LIBOR and other metrics. The trust of the banks has been breached, and perhaps more importantly, the people's trust has been betrayed. Look for a long, painful recovery on this one, as good as it is that the thieves have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar. IMO, YMMV, etc., etc...

"The people's trust has been betrayed"

I agree 100%. Part of what I am seeing is that people (myself included) are furious but are not sure exactly why and not exactly sure who I should be furious at or at least what degree of furiousness should be directed at various institutions.

I agree that not only the stock market will have a long painful recovery but it will take a long time for the government and financial institutions to regain the trust of the people.

In politics, they call it the "blame game" like it is a bad thing and truthfully the way it is generally played it is a blunt typically misleading weapon. However, in medicine, it is called an autopsy and it is a powerful tool for advancing practice. At some point, I hope we focus enough on all the factors that went into how we got here so we can avoid that fate again.
 
Hopefully, younger people will learn what should be an obvious lesson here ..... accumulation of debt simply to feed one's ego is a dead end street. And for all of those members here who think/thought it is/was a great idea to get yet another credit card to buy that fancy wood-topped bass (or SUV, or big house, or expensive clothing, etc) that they can't/couldn't afford, it's time to suffer the consequences for the ego-feeding ... :rolleyes:

This situation angers me beyond words. After a lifetime of working hard, being conservative, living a modest lifestyle and accumulating wealth for a theoretical retirement at a reasonable age, I'm seeing the wheels not quite coming off the bus but definitely losing some lug nuts. Luckily, because we are conservative, the hits we're experiencing are not devastating but they're hits none-the-less. It seems that we can recover some, but it'll take more hard work, more conservatism, more modest living at a time when we fully expected to begin to reap some of the rewards of our years of efforts.

And all of this is due to greed and stupidity of a wide range of people, including Wall Street, politicians, real estate "magnates", and right down to the knuckleheads living down the street from me who thought their mortgage vehicles were a great way to "keep up with the Smiths" .....

I know who I'm p*ssed off at ..... everyone ..... :(
 
I've been doing great with my fake stocks. I've been day-trading since AIG crashed. Started with 1 mil, been up to 1.4, back down to 1.3 now. I'm gambling with the bailout. If it goes through, I'm sure stocks will soar tomorrow. If not, I'm screwed, and I'll get another fake 1 million and start from scratch :).
 
Ed - excellent point - you truly live up to your username!

I hope that posting the words of an ex-president won't violate the spirit of TB's rules; but I stumbled on a John Adams quote that supports what you were saying. I guess it is true that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

"When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers, and destroyers press upon them so fast, that there is no resisting afterwards," wrote John Adams in 1787. ".... The people grow less steady, spirited, and virtuous, the seekers more numerous and more corrupt, and every day increases the circles of their dependants and expectants, until virtue, integrity, public spirit, simplicity, and frugality become the objects of ridicule and scorn, and vanity, luxury, foppery, selfishness, meanness, and downright venality swallow up the whole society."

That said, I can't help but point (there's that word again :D) out a thin, but real, hope. This country has been in these kind of situations before and we have pulled through. I fully expect we will do so again; it won't be easy and it won't be pretty, but we will do it.
 
Ed - excellent point - you truly live up to your username!

I hope that posting the words of an ex-president won't violate the spirit of TB's rules; but I stumbled on a John Adams quote that supports what you were saying. I guess it is true that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

"When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers, and destroyers press upon them so fast, that there is no resisting afterwards," wrote John Adams in 1787. ".... The people grow less steady, spirited, and virtuous, the seekers more numerous and more corrupt, and every day increases the circles of their dependants and expectants, until virtue, integrity, public spirit, simplicity, and frugality become the objects of ridicule and scorn, and vanity, luxury, foppery, selfishness, meanness, and downright venality swallow up the whole society."

That said, I can't help but point (there's that word again :D) out a thin, but real, hope. This country has been in these kind of situations before and we have pulled through. I fully expect we will do so again; it won't be easy and it won't be pretty, but we will do it.
Great quote! So fitting in so many areas of US society today.

I think the "culture of entitlement" and the "culture of greed" are intertwined in an unholy alliance. Common sense has been largely eradicated, through the omission of teaching critical thinking skills to our children. Long ago, back in the stone age when I went to school, they had classes that were a requirement for graduation. One was a basic logic course, which taught critical thinking in the event you didn't learn it in your other classes; another was home economics, which taught basic skills such as developing cooking skills (I excelled at that part), basic sewing repairs (buttons and whatnot), making a budget, and how to balance a checkbook, and some basic finance (concepts of interest and principal, compound interest, and basic loan terminology).

Two years after I graduated, they canceled those classes, replacing them with cultural studies (overview of Islam, Buddhism, and a couple other non-Judeo/Christian religions), and another class that taught acceptance of "alternative lifestyles". So the social programming has been going on for almost a generation. I don't know what they teach now at my old alma mater, nor do I care to find out.

I do feel, however, that our youth have been seriously shortchanged in the edumacation department by short-sighted bean-counters who cut funding for music programs, and home economics. Kids these days gradutate with a distinct hole in their knowledge of how the world really works, especially in matters of finance and cooking. Simple things.

One thing further on this topic...kind of funny, actually, but it illustrates how helpless people are these days. I was visiting a neighbor after the storm, and asked if they had food. They said they had all kinds of canned goods, but their canopener didn't work as it was plugged in and there was no power. I had to go find a manual can opener and train them to use it. After I opened the can of ravioli, she started to throw it away. I stopped her, said "What are you doing?"
Her answer shocked me- "I can't eat cold ravioli." So I told her to just heat it up. "How? The microwave doesn't work!" I literally had to take a pan out and put it on the stove and cook it for her. She was amazed. Never fired up a gas stove before, she didn't even know how it worked!! :eek: Thank God I was there to learn 'em the finer points of cheffin', else they'd have gotten real skinny! People these days literally have NO CLUE. No wonder the elite take advantage of them!
 
Things may be different when more counties start going bankrupt, and eventually entire states.

Markets want to go lower, including housing. Stay out or stay hedged.


Can I get an "AMEN" !!?!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...7-billion-loan-to-fend-off-credit-crisis.html

Invalid Link Removed




Hopefully, younger people will learn what should be an obvious lesson here ..... accumulation of debt simply to feed one's ego is a dead end street. And for all of those members here who think/thought it is/was a great idea to get yet another credit card to buy that fancy wood-topped bass (or SUV, or big house, or expensive clothing, etc) that they can't/couldn't afford, it's time to suffer the consequences for the ego-feeding ... :rolleyes:

AMEN !!!!



This situation angers me beyond words.

It's amazing to me that people aren't excercising their rights to bear arms and doing more than just talkin' 'bout a revolution. Well, they aren't even talkin' 'bout it, but you know what I mean.


After a lifetime of working hard, being conservative, living a modest lifestyle and accumulating wealth for a theoretical retirement at a reasonable age, I'm seeing the wheels not quite coming off the bus but definitely losing some lug nuts. Luckily, because we are conservative, the hits we're experiencing are not devastating but they're hits none-the-less. It seems that we can recover some, but it'll take more hard work, more conservatism, more modest living at a time when we fully expected to begin to reap some of the rewards of our years of efforts.

If you don't mind my asking, given that you've done the right things it seems, I'm curuous how this has negatively impacted you. I'm not challenging the assertion, as I can think of several ways. I'm just wondering what the ways actually are.



... I'm in Barney Frank's district and I like the guy. He has a good grasp of this stuff but he may be a bit too close to the Wall Street boys on this.

I think that's quite an understatement. Most of those voting on these measures is in any way qualified to vote or even comment on them. The rest are crooked, and in serious conflict-of-interest situations as is Paulson himself. Deeply so.

It speaks stridently about their lack of judgement that no impartial persons were consulted with as these bills were conceived and passed.


I am definitely lightening up on the stock exposure as we are probably in a recession right now.

The recession is about 16 months deep already. I stress again to look at real figures, not government scam numbers. Do the math yourself rather than eating the fudge the "officials" hand out. Doing the math yourself leads you to a lot of very profitable trades as well. It's a big part of how I do it, and why I was saying GM and Fannie/Freddie were insolvent back when people still believed they were "blue chips".


I agree that it may be the end (at least for while) about the blatant theft. We can only hope at this point.

AMEN !!! But I fear that hope is misplaced and that the situation is much worse than most people can imagine, and that we'll see the violation of the corpse of the American Dream and Economy many more times as it is lowered into its grave. I think by the end of it Buffet will be widely mocked, as is former darling Greenspan now rightly villified as a major culprit in what has happened.



"When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers, and destroyers press upon them so fast, that there is no resisting afterwards," wrote John Adams in 1787. ".... The people grow less steady, spirited, and virtuous, the seekers more numerous and more corrupt, and every day increases the circles of their dependants and expectants, until virtue, integrity, public spirit, simplicity, and frugality become the objects of ridicule and scorn, and vanity, luxury, foppery, selfishness, meanness, and downright venality swallow up the whole society."

AMEN !!!

“Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate ... It will purge the rottenness out of the system...values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people...”

– U.S. Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon in 1928.





That said, I can't help but point (there's that word again :D) out a thin, but real, hope. This country has been in these kind of situations before and we have pulled through. I fully expect we will do so again; it won't be easy and it won't be pretty, but we will do it.

All empires end eventually. All of them, the exact same way - frivolous wars, debt, elite frauds in power, and all pee-ons dancing while the ship sinks. Don't risk being so vain to think it won't happen in our lifetime. Prepare accordingly, just in case.




Bassic83, cheers man. Keep on rockin'.

These are the good ol' days.
 
I'm not sure who he goes to for investment advice, but he should start doing what I am doing and listen to SMASH.

FROM MSN Money:
Link Removed

He lost $700 million in four months -- and it gets worse
Posted Oct 21 2008, 11:28 AM by Charley Blaine Rating: Filed under: Bank of America, Ford, economy, credit crisis, automotive


Being a billionaire isn't as much fun as it used to be. Just ask investor Kirk Kerkorian, the investor and casino magnate.

Kerkorian plunked down $1 billion in Ford Motor in the spring, ending with a 6.4% stake in the automaker. In a bit more than four months, he's seen more than two thirds of the value of that investment vanish as Ford and all the automakers have struggled with high gas prices and the crummy economy.
 
If you don't mind my asking, given that you've done the right things it seems, I'm curuous how this has negatively impacted you. I'm not challenging the assertion, as I can think of several ways. I'm just wondering what the ways actually are.
I seemed to have missed this post, Smash, so I'll answer now, a bit late but perhaps the next time you check in you can respond if necessary ...

We (my wife & I) have what could only be viewed as very conservative investments. Nothing truely high risk, no day trading or anything like that .... most of what we have is in what would normally be looked at as "safe" investments, i.e., blended mutual funds, 401K's, Govt bonds etc. Things with a slower rate of return. We also have heavily invested in ourselves, specifically agressively paying down our mortgage, eliminating ALL debt beyond the minor balance left on the mortgage, maintaining our vehicles in pristine condition to further the life of the vehicle and not have to buy "new", etc. Additionally, we have some real estate holdings that are very long term investments that we aren't currently too worried about (bought them very low and even with this serious market correction we are still very much on the positive side of these properties).

With the realization that any investment is a risk of sorts, we believe that we have limited our exposure to the degree possible that a moderate return on the investments could be realized. As is painfully evident in this economy, even the most conservative of investments has experienced a hit of 30% or more.

Will it come back? Hopefully, but I sure don't know that for a fact. We have to assume that it won't, and we now need to change direction to attempt to recoup the "losses" we have experienced recently. Part of being a conservative investor (IMO) is to not sit back and "hope for the best". Had the economy simply leveled off rather than dropped so precipitously, our gains over the past 15 years could have been re-addressed into even more conservative vehicles. But now, we must look different approaches to solidify our theoretical retirement years.

We have always tried to be conservative and handle our finances in a manner that limited the risks .... in other words, work a lot harder for what we have but sleep peacefully knowing that we wouldn't lose it all on a gamble. And because neither one of us is well-versed enough to fully manage our own accounts, we engaged professionals that worked for us to manage things in a conservative way. And yet, even with that due caution, we have found ourselves seeing a downturn.

Knowing that we are in much better shape than a fairly high majority of our friends/neighbors/family is of little satisfaction to us. Knowing that many of these people ran the very high risk gauntlet and also knowing that there are plans afoot to provide support to them for their bad behavior leaves a very bitter taste. Perhaps I'm being short-sighted, perhaps I'm misunderstanding the larger picture, but all I know is years of being a responsible, hard working dope has resulted in me having to, in essence, bail out others who chose to be far less responsible ....

Yup, I'm p*ssed off .... and open to suggestions or comments ....
 
One of the things people have been asking me is "how come you still have a 401k? Mine used to be a 401k, now it's a 4.01k!"

The simple answer is, I, too "lost money". I'm down about 20% from where I should be. But the number in my 401k is just that- a number. I did move all my money into the bond market before the bottom fell out. I got stung a little, but not as bad as my aunt, who had about 70% of her nest egg in "Small cap growth" and "Emerging market" vehicles. She got hammered, losing almost 50% of her retirement funds. I told her to move it or lose it, she moved it too late and lost a lot of it.

People ask me what I think of this fund or that stock, whatever...I answer them with a couple simple questions- "If you had to live without their product, could you? If you had the chance to buy the whole company for $10,000 in cash, would you? And if you didn't have the cash to throw down, would you borrow from your mother to get the company?" If they answer "No, yes, maybe", then I encourage them to look into how to figure out what the net worth of that company is. Too many people don't understand financials. I tried to come up with $21 Billion the other day, because I wanted to buy Charles Schwab. Their market cap was $21 billion, and on that particular day, you could have bought every last share for that amount, they had $28 billion in cash and liquidity. I could have put my $21B down, shuttered the company right then and there, and walked out the door with $7 billion in cash. I know, I know...it's a shiddy thing to do to all those people, both employees and account holders, but the fact remains that it was available, for that price, with that much left over. Unfortunately, my uncle Sam hasn't died yet, (though he is awfully close, if you ask me!) and when he does, he'll probably leave everything to his niece and nephew, Fannie and Freddie...
 
Ed,
You really asked two questions:

How do I go forward with my investments?
How do I deal with the anger?

You have professional help on the first question, so I'd continue to follow their advice. As for me, after reducing my equity allocation a bit over the past year (but nowhere near enough in 20/20 hindsight :bawl:), I have started to slowly buy equities again. Stocks are on sale. Doesn't mean that they might not go lower again; but I like my odds in the long run.

On the anger front, I'll let you know what I have been doing about the second because I am pretty angry as well.

1. I have spent a lot of time thinking about this as it hits me both personally and professionally. I read a lot in the real estate press and financial press. My favorite blogger is a guy named David Smith, who is a big deal in my field, the somewhat arcane world of affordable housing. His writing is clear and entertaining and IMO not particularly partisan (YMMV). Invalid Link Removed . Part of the reason I do this is that I am angry at the media and by partisan voices of all stripes that seem to focus on talking points rather than solid analysis.

2. Part of the reason I spend a lot of time thinking is to help me properly distribute my anger. As with my investments, I am a big believer in having my anger broadly diversified. (We need a smilie that says that I am not sure if I am serious or joking; I think I'm both in this case) My own list is pretty long and it includes people who signed on the dotted line for more debt than they could afford whether in a first purchase or a refinance; but it also includes everyone in that particular supply chain that made money on the deal.

3. I try to take comfort in being a little better off than folks who went too far with the debt. My balances are lower in the savings and retirement accounts, but I know my wife and I earn enough to pay our bills (partly because we have always tried to live below our means). That piece of mind is priceless. It may be corny, but I find that taking more pleasure in the stuff money can't buy has helped me the past month or two or twelve.

4. One thing that I have learned in my bureaucratic life is to not get too excited about plans and proposals until they pop out of Congress and the regs are written. The support that overstretched borrowers are likely to actually obtain now in declining order are:
a. repayment plans - still owe all the payments but stretched over time
b. no interest rate increase - still owe all the principal on a house that is probably worth less. The subprime loans that I have seen have starting rates above a prime loan, so while this is a break over what they signed up, it is not a great deal and doesn't have any real impact on you or I.
c. rate reduction - again they still owe all the principal on a house that is probably worth less. Maybe this gets the rate down closer to prime; maybe it gets it to prime; maybe it even gets to below prime. At least here the lender is taking a bigger part of the pain. Not sure how this would impact you or I.
d. allow a short sale - the owners lose whatever equity they had and this will negatively affect their credit, the banks lose money on the sale. Shared pain by lender and owner.
e. HOPE for homeowners loan - if you can afford a mortgage, and your bank is willing to take a 10% haircut, then you will be refinanced into a loan that gives the banks and the government a share of future equity. Not sure how many people will actually fit in this box but there is a distribution of pain here and a possibility that we the taxpayers might make some money on the deal.
f. principal reduction - unlikely to happen at any grand scale whether it is McCain's plan buy the mortgages at full price and have the government eat it or varous Democratic proposals to give bankrupcy courts the power to cram down mortgages. The first is very expensive and the second creates far too much moral hazard and could very likely have very bad unintended consequences as lenders change their practices to account for the possibility of future cramdowns. I'm not that worried that either of things will ever come to pass.

5. Whatever happens, even if some version of principal reduction takes place - I know I would not want to switch places with someone in a position to benefit from any of the above options.

6. I believe that life is a risky proposition; we can do what we can to minimize it but we can't eliminate it. I also believe that life is not fair. Lastly, I believe I am relatively powerless to change either of those two things, so I try not to worry about them too much.

Ed,
I'm not sure that any of the above will help. For what it is worth, I feel a little better just having gotten some of these thoughts out, thanks for giving me a little nudge to write.
 
Yes, well thought out indeed! Your synopsis meets my basic understanding of the situation as well, but much more of a cohesive series of thoughts than I've had recently :rolleyes:

Truthfully, I regularly fluctuate between anger and relief over this whole economic picture. Some of that anger is self directed, especially when I consider that during the "good times" I could have engaged in higher return investing and realized more reward rather than maintaining the conservative investment path. Kick myself every day for that a little bit .... but not being a gambler I guess I always take the slow and steady safe route.

But, just to be clear, I'm blessed to still have the security we are realizing today. Despite the economic problems today, my wife and I are secure and comfortable .... we can still easily afford a very nice dinner out, or a vacation, or for that matter a new bass :D. Where friends and family are having a very tough time making weekly ends meet, our lives have barely changed.

We'll get through this fine, we always do. We know how to work, we know how to save & invest, we have discipline with our money, and when need be we absolutely know how to sacrifice certain comforts to which we've become adjusted. I really don't know a lot of people in our circles who can make the same statement.

But controls do need to be put into place by the powers that be (or will soon be ;)), or at least some path defined for us commoners. Whatever the system is that ultimately gets put into place, undoubtedly there will be a way for us to find our way to a comfortable place .... just have to figure out what that way is, as right now the path is not clear ....