Anyone here have experience with the AE212 and Genz Benz Neox 212? Curious if these two are distant cousins. I have to admit, the rear porting of the AE212 scares me. Each time I've bitten the bullet on rear-ported cabs, I've ultimately wound up being disappointed with them in some specific situations.
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Bergantino AE212 - Just Released
- Thread starter KJung
- Start date
- Status
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,518
- 19,954
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
My guess is that the NeoX-212T will be more warm, round and smooth, and the AE212 will be more articulate, aggressive, and dynamic.
TBowlus replied: My guess is that the NeoX-212T will be more warm, round and smooth, and the AE212 will be more articulate, aggressive, and dynamic.
That just took the AE212 off my wishlist. I want warm, round y smooth. So I can keep my two Neox 212T's. But that Uber 212 sure has me thinking of it, really gotta go play one to compare.
I've played/owned a couple Bergy cabs, they don't seem to do it for me. Sold off my few months old NV215 to a TX-TBer and I played the AE410 at the store before I bought the NV215, just not my tone, I guess. But I can sure respect the quality of Jim's cabs.
That just took the AE212 off my wishlist. I want warm, round y smooth. So I can keep my two Neox 212T's. But that Uber 212 sure has me thinking of it, really gotta go play one to compare.
I've played/owned a couple Bergy cabs, they don't seem to do it for me. Sold off my few months old NV215 to a TX-TBer and I played the AE410 at the store before I bought the NV215, just not my tone, I guess. But I can sure respect the quality of Jim's cabs.
Just FYI, there really isn't a 'Bergantino tone' IMO. All his cabs sound VERY different across his different product lines, from the 'new vintage' of the NV line, to the very smooth, creamy tone of the HT to the 'vintage meets modern' HS line, and finally to the more modern and aggressive AE line.
If you dig the NV215, the AE line (or the Genz cabs) would probably not be for you... totally different vibe.
Port location really has no impact on anything. There are rear ported cabs I don't like much, but that has nothing to do with the rear ports
I've heard this a lot, and I tend to agree if the port design doesn't break some of the rules. I'd think Jim knows what he's doing for sure, and the AE212 wouldn't have rear port issues. Are the paper cones easily visible through the rear ports?Port location really has no impact on anything. There are rear ported cabs I don't like much, but that has nothing to do with the rear ports
No. I have a picture of the back of the cab in the first post of the thread. The ports are to the side of the cab, and there is an actual baffle between the drivers, etc.
I do agree that a rear port like on the little Bag End 15" cube (just a big hole cut right behind the driver) can be an issue with directional sound coming out of that hole (almost like an open back guitar cab). However, this is rare IME.
This AE212 is really the first 212 that I've really dug (along with the Genz NeoX 212).... tight and punchy like a 410, but with just a bit more true low end extension and a bit less 'in your face' bright grind up top. It is like a better made, smaller, lighter, better sounding Eden 212XLT (also a very nice 212 IMO).
In that case, I really need to check it out. I love the tone of the 212xlt. The AE212 might be the ticket as I want a single-cab 4 ohm solution that is relatively light. I don't need the volume of a 410 at all, but I do want the force that it can bring at say 50% output. I'm not slapper, at least not in a showcase kind of way. I like an aggressive fingerstyle tone that doesn't get harsh in the upper register. The 212xlt killed for this. The AE410 is probably a bit much, and while light for a 410 still a bit on the heavy side.
I'm also going to get an F500 I believe. I want something really small. Mostly I just want to play with something new and have fun. You only live so long.
Kjung:Just FYI, there really isn't a 'Bergantino tone' IMO. All his cabs sound VERY different across his different product lines, from the 'new vintage' of the NV line, to the very smooth, creamy tone of the HT to the 'vintage meets modern' HS line, and finally to the more modern and aggressive AE line.
If you dig the NV215, the AE line (or the Genz cabs) would probably not be for you... totally different vibe.
ME: Well since I only played the AE410 in the store briefly, I prolly shouldn't speak to that cab. At that time it did not sound like what I wanted tone-wise. Now, the store was cool in that they let me gig the NV610 first at a gig; returned it and got the NV215. I had just joined a large disco band with little bass PA support, so I felt I needed a large cab.
Maybe the sealed cabs thing was not what worked for me, always owned ported cabs prior. So I felt then that the NV cabs "tone" was not for me. I believe those two cabs do have an inherent tone, Bergy or not. I found I did not dig the NV cabs afterall.
I proceeded to use a 210xlt/410xlt for a 610 rig in that band. Or I'd use my two Neox 212T cabs at times, each with B1500 head. Now, in two other bands I'm currently in, I get away with either one Neox 212T or the 410xlt with either F1 or LMII, depending on club size. These are smaller bands, not so loud and one offers me PA support.
I've heard the Uber 212 is abit "bigger" sounding than the Neox 212T so that's why I'm checking that cab out. I can't speak alot to specs on any cab, as I'm not that educated on the subject. Other than what I read here and it actually has helped me along since I've joined. Though that's pretty much how I ended up with the NV cabs, alota research read here but maybe not enough to know better of what I needed. And you Ken, have been gracious in replying to my past PMs about certain cabs or gear with much detail. Thanks for that.
I'm usually pretty good about buying my gear using my ears and did not apply that so much back then. Maybe the AE410 woulda worked for me. I do like 410 cabs.
Don't really need the Uber cab, just gassy to at least try one out. Just maybe I'll see if they have the AE212 in soon. I mean, won't hurt to just try it, right? Famous last words of a fool.
If you dig the NV215, the AE line (or the Genz cabs) would probably not be for you... totally different vibe.
ME: Well since I only played the AE410 in the store briefly, I prolly shouldn't speak to that cab. At that time it did not sound like what I wanted tone-wise. Now, the store was cool in that they let me gig the NV610 first at a gig; returned it and got the NV215. I had just joined a large disco band with little bass PA support, so I felt I needed a large cab.
Maybe the sealed cabs thing was not what worked for me, always owned ported cabs prior. So I felt then that the NV cabs "tone" was not for me. I believe those two cabs do have an inherent tone, Bergy or not. I found I did not dig the NV cabs afterall.
I proceeded to use a 210xlt/410xlt for a 610 rig in that band. Or I'd use my two Neox 212T cabs at times, each with B1500 head. Now, in two other bands I'm currently in, I get away with either one Neox 212T or the 410xlt with either F1 or LMII, depending on club size. These are smaller bands, not so loud and one offers me PA support.
I've heard the Uber 212 is abit "bigger" sounding than the Neox 212T so that's why I'm checking that cab out. I can't speak alot to specs on any cab, as I'm not that educated on the subject. Other than what I read here and it actually has helped me along since I've joined. Though that's pretty much how I ended up with the NV cabs, alota research read here but maybe not enough to know better of what I needed. And you Ken, have been gracious in replying to my past PMs about certain cabs or gear with much detail. Thanks for that.
I'm usually pretty good about buying my gear using my ears and did not apply that so much back then. Maybe the AE410 woulda worked for me. I do like 410 cabs.
Don't really need the Uber cab, just gassy to at least try one out. Just maybe I'll see if they have the AE212 in soon. I mean, won't hurt to just try it, right? Famous last words of a fool.
ME: Well since I only played the AE410 in the store briefly, I prolly shouldn't speak to that cab. At that time it did not sound like what I wanted tone-wise. Now, the store was cool in that they let me gig the NV610 first at a gig; returned it and got the NV215. I had just joined a large disco band with little bass PA support, so I felt I needed a large cab.
Maybe the sealed cabs thing was not what worked for me, always owned ported cabs prior. So I felt then that the NV cabs "tone" was not for me. I believe those two cabs do have an inherent tone, Bergy or not. I found I did not dig the NV cabs afterall.
I proceeded to use a 210xlt/410xlt for a 610 rig in that band. Or I'd use my two Neox 212T cabs at times, each with B1500 head. Now, in two other bands I'm currently in, I get away with either one Neox 212T or the 410xlt with either F1 or LMII, depending on club size. These are smaller bands, not so loud and one offers me PA support.
I've heard the Uber 212 is abit "bigger" sounding than the Neox 212T so that's why I'm checking that cab out. I can't speak alot to specs on any cab, as I'm not that educated on the subject. Other than what I read here and it actually has helped me along since I've joined. Though that's pretty much how I ended up with the NV cabs, alota research read here but maybe not enough to know better of what I needed. And you Ken, have been gracious in replying to my past PMs about certain cabs or gear with much detail. Thanks for that.
I'm usually pretty good about buying my gear using my ears and did not apply that so much back then. Maybe the AE410 woulda worked for me. I do like 410 cabs.
Don't really need the Uber cab, just gassy to at least try one out. Just maybe I'll see if they have the AE212 in soon. I mean, won't hurt to just try it, right? Famous last words of a fool.
+1 I love the AE410 but have absolutely no use for the vintage, sealed NV type tone. They sound very different, but, as you say, they each have a strong voice that you are going to dig or not dig.
I don't like the HT and HS line, nor the NV's, although I respect them for what they are trying to achieve. They all sound quite different.
I have all three
AE, HT and NV. And yes they all do sound very different, that's for sure. Gosh if they all sounded the same then I would only keep one anyway.I find that my NV212 sounds just killer with a front end that is tube heavy. My Aggie DB750 and my DB680 pre are perfect with the sealed cabinet. Just crazy massive with an old musty SVT, too.
The pair of HT112s work great with my old Fafner, my Walter Wood Ultra and not bad with either my LMII or my Mesa M6. The HTs sound great with my fretless basses. But the AE410 is the king as it sounds great with everything that I have.
So even though I dig the NV tone I still LOVE the AE tone.
^^ +1, Jerry. I LOVE my NV-610, but I also know that it just happens to suit the music I'm playing in my main band (Allman Bros, Little Feat, blues, etc.). If I had to slap or cover a wider range of popular music, I'd need a different cab. I'd be looking at the AE-212, AE-410, the HT112ER or the HS410 if that were my situation.
So, I don't recall seeing any gig reviews of the AE212, yet. Still in the "wait and see" stage?
Ken, I believe you are in the F500 camp with the AE series, but do you think most folks would prefer the LMIII with the AE212? Does those to seem to really have some mojo together, or is the tighter voicing of the F1/500 make that much of a difference?
IMO, different but, with this cab, equally good. The AE212 still has plenty of punch so that the wide, smooth tone of the LMII/III sounds great if you want it a bit fat and warm and smooth. And, the AE212 isn't quite as over the top grindy and punchy as the AE410, which means that the F500 sounds quite warm also, but increases the punch and burp and brightness versus the LM. They both really sound good, and my guess is the Shuttle 9 would also kill, being a bit more grindy and bright but similarly punchy to the F500.
My preference is still the F500 with this cab, but that's for my tone goals. The LMII/III kills also!
Having been a Bergantino guy for the last 6 years (currently, I have 3 AE112's, 1 IP112, and 1 HT112), I am looking forward to having my AE212 early next week!
For my live performances, I have been using 2 AE112's powered by either a Markbass F1 or an Epifani UL-502. I will use the AE212 with the F1 and given the performance of 2 AE112's, I cannot even imagine the AE212!
Cheers,
Alper
For my live performances, I have been using 2 AE112's powered by either a Markbass F1 or an Epifani UL-502. I will use the AE212 with the F1 and given the performance of 2 AE112's, I cannot even imagine the AE212!
Cheers,
Alper
I have all three
I find that my NV212 sounds just killer with a front end that is tube heavy. My Aggie DB750 and my DB680 pre are perfect with the sealed cabinet. Just crazy massive with an old musty SVT, too.
The pair of HT112s work great with my old Fafner, my Walter Wood Ultra and not bad with either my LMII or my Mesa M6. The HTs sound great with my fretless basses. But the AE410 is the king as it sounds great with everything that I have.
So even though I dig the NV tone I still LOVE the AE tone.
Hey Jerry --
Are you going to buy one of these so I can gig it some time?
I've got a new M9 on the way so my wife would be mighty grumpy if I got an AE212 any time soon.The AE410 will continue to be my #1 for gigging in the foreseeable future. I'd sure like to hear an AE 212 though.
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