Bergantino AE212 - Just Released

[DB5]

Thanks for posting Ken

 

[joelb79]

Hey Ken, I can't wait for the RH450 clips. I'd love to hear that cab with some tube saturation dialed in.

 

[nemo]

Thanks for the clip. Listening to good headphones, I would guess that the AE212 still needs some burn in - opening up and releasing the cones.. Would you please post some clip after couple of gigs with it?

 

[KJung]

Thanks, as always, for your reports and reviews. I actually was going to do this cab and a separate single cab (different builder) but went with two AE112s. I'm really impressed with them and a MB F500 just straight-up flat out of the box, but the first gig test is tonight. I wonder if the 212 is better tuned/more efficient or "omphicient" than the two 112s together, but I'm liking what I'm hearing anyway.

I would guess the 2 x AE112 stack would sound virtually identical, or within 5% either way.

It is funny with the F500. It has all that EQ power... filters, semi-parametric mids, etc. With the Berg AE's, I just plug it in, set it flat and play!

 

[KJung]

Thanks for the clip. Listening to good headphones, I would guess that the AE212 still needs some burn in - opening up and releasing the cones.. Would you please post some clip after couple of gigs with it?

I've never really noticed much more 'opening up' with these mid voiced, full range neo drivers after the first hour of playing or so, but will be keeping my ears open to it over time.

You are right though, that the low end might extend a touch more over time... not sure my little recorder would pick that up, but I'll give it some time and post another clip.

Also, for anyone wondering, the room I recorded these clips in is a family room built on a concrete slab at the back of my house. So, the AE410 sounds exactly the same with or without the wheels attached... no mechanical coupling issues. So, I didn't bother to take them off when doing the clip.

 

[taphappy]

Jamerson is still in Detroit!!!!.... His spirit has taken over Ken's cat....

HEH! Niiiiice

Ken - great A/Bing! And I have to agree with nemo...headphones made a world of difference in hearing the unique qualities of these cabs. The recorder picked up quite a bit, hearing a lot more in the low mid spectrum from the AE.

 

[jnewmark]

Where do you normally set the levels on your bass when you do these clips? i would love to hear an A/B with a passive Jazz with these two cabs. Active basses are just not my thing.

 

[KJung]

Where do you normally set the levels on your bass when you do these clips? i would love to hear an A/B with a passive Jazz with these two cabs. Active basses are just not my thing.

Volume all the way up, preamp engaged with just a slight (10% or so) bass boost, passive tone control open all the way in this clip. The passive tone of the Sadowsky is not that different from the active mode with the slight EQ that I use. However, it is a 'modern' sounding bass.

I have a clip up with the Sadowsky in active and passive mode through the AE410 on the youtube channel (it is the clip listed just before this current one).

When we do the 60's J clip with the RH450 this weekend, I'll make sure we do a passive section!

 

[KJung]

HEH! Niiiiice

Ken - great A/Bing! And I have to agree with nemo...headphones made a world of difference in hearing the unique qualities of these cabs. The recorder picked up quite a bit, hearing a lot more in the low mid spectrum from the AE.

Cool. If the AE212 opens up a touch more over time, all the better. The little Zoom recorder is quite impressive. If it had a pause function, it would be perfect for these type of clips.

And, Jim just emailed that the cover will ship on Monday, so he, as always, has his game together on these new product introductions and service.

 

[KJung]

Where do you normally set the levels on your bass when you do these clips? i would love to hear an A/B with a passive Jazz with these two cabs. Active basses are just not my thing.

Your wish is my command. Here is a very quick clip of the same bass (Sadowsky Vintage with single coils) in passive mode, with the AE212 driven by the warmer, fatter LMII with the VLE filter engaged a bit (the VLE.. vintage loudspeaker emulation... is a variable lo pass filter that takes the upper treble edge off of a cab with a tweeter... nice circuit).

Of course, the bass is still ash/maple with stainless steel roundwounds... so not really 'old school', but you can hear that nice, unbuffered, organic growl and grind. The AE212 KICKS if this is your tone goal!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoWx2ixLLJo

 

[Musicman20]

Your wish is my command. Here is a very quick clip of the same bass (Sadowsky Vintage with single coils) in passive mode, with the AE212 driven by the warmer, fatter LMII with the VLE filter engaged a bit (the VLE.. vintage loudspeaker emulation... is a variable lo pass filter that takes the upper treble edge off of a cab with a tweeter... nice circuit).

Of course, the bass is still ash/maple with stainless steel roundwounds... so not really 'old school', but you can hear that nice, unbuffered, organic growl and grind. The AE212 KICKS if this is your tone goal!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoWx2ixLLJo

Now THATS what Im talking about. That screams exactly the tone im looking for, warmer, less bright, more old school. The lows seem fantastic. So far I think the AE212s only competition now is the HS410 (for my tone goals).

 

[KJung]

Now THATS what Im talking about. That screams exactly the tone im looking for, warmer, less bright, more old school. The lows seem fantastic. So far I think the AE212s only competition now is the HS410 (for my tone goals).

I often forget that my 'tight and bright' tone goals probably sound like fingernails on a chalkboard to some. This is a pretty good example of what I call a 'modern passive tone'. My guru for this sort of tone is Jimmy Earl, who has some sort of Frankenfender that gets this sort of 'passive, growly but not necessarily old school/vintage' tone.

If you want to hear something, hunt down Robben Ford's 'Paris Concert' DVD. Jimmy Earl's playing and tone is just about as perfect as you can get for that sort of modern blues/rock sort of thing.

I'll put up a more old school/vintage clip with my alder/RW A-C with nickels and the RH450 on Sunday when Jason comes over.

 

[Musicman20]

I often forget that my 'tight and bright' tone goals probably sound like fingernails on a chalkboard to some. This is a pretty good example of what I call a 'modern passive tone'. My guru for this sort of tone is Jimmy Earl, who has some sort of Frankenfender that gets this sort of 'passive, growly but not necessarily old school/vintage' tone.

If you want to hear something, hunt down Robben Ford's 'Paris Concert' DVD. Jimmy Earl's playing and tone is just about as perfect as you can get for that sort of modern blues/rock sort of thing.

I'll put up a more old school/vintage clip with my alder/RW A-C with nickels and the RH450 on Sunday when Jason comes over.

Dont get me wrong the tighter and bright tones are great as well, but I seem to sway towards a more vintage tone in my current bands.

A clip with the RH450 would be great! Thanks for putting these up.

 

[joelb79]

Ken that LMII Tone with that cab is amazing. Sounds great with the camera, rather fat but pretty in a way. I hope that the fatness would cut through better though, I think the limitation of the LMII eq is that the low mid doesn't bring up the low mid fatness, rather it is really the lower side of the midrange. So I cant help but think a head with a more growly low mids, a compressed low end, and a compressed top with that cab would be close to the tone I'm looking for...

Or I can just keep plugging away on my VTBASS > LMII > UL410S1... I just think its too modern/polite sounding for me and the VTBASS is needed to add the sound in my head I want.. which is like a grindy sounding flip top on steroids.

 

[Whitbass]

its kinda interesting how different folks have different tastes in tone, sometimes despite the genre.....
I think I am somewhere between some you folks tonally.....
I like it tight and focused and punchy, with some funk style edge, yet not really bright, and with major authority, but more punch and not so warm, more burpy....I like the lows to fill, but not so much otherwise, and low mids-highs to really talk, with the upper edges smoothed off a bit......
my tone makes for terrible slap IMO, but with a little adjustment either way with pups, I can go just mellow enough to not be in your face, then a slight twist, I can really dig in.....

......now if I could just play

Also wonder if the F500, etc might suit me better than the LMII

 

[KJung]

Ken that LMII Tone with that cab is amazing. Sounds great with the camera, rather fat but pretty in a way. I hope that the fatness would cut through better though, I think the limitation of the LMII eq is that the low mid doesn't bring up the low mid fatness, rather it is really the lower side of the midrange. So I cant help but think a head with a more growly low mids, a compressed low end, and a compressed top with that cab would be close to the tone I'm looking for...

Or I can just keep plugging away on my VTBASS > LMII > UL410S1... I just think its too modern/polite sounding for me and the VTBASS is needed to add the sound in my head I want.. which is like a grindy sounding flip top on steroids.

That's the beauty of the AE voicing with the LMII... those cabs have much more low mid oomph than the 410UL. I really like the 410UL with the MB heads also, but it is a different thing... modern, deep, sizzly, GREAT for slapping and really putting a pillow under the band. And, the MB heads with the low mid semi-parametric also work great with the Epi UL cabs.. dialing that center point down to 200 or 150. However, if you like low mid burp and punch, the AE line of Berg cabs will get you there without having to mess with EQ boosts or whatever. IMO, and a lot of IME with both lines of cabs.

 

[mrpackerguy]

I want one.

I recently bought one of Jorg's 1212BMF's in the GFS. It's been lots of fun in the basement with my mpulse600, but the real test will be at the gig this Saturday. Kjung, will anxiously await your assessment of the AE212 at the gig.

 

[KJung]

I want one.

I recently bought one of Jorg's 1212BMF's in the GFS. It's been lots of fun in the basement with my mpulse600, but the real test will be at the gig this Saturday. Kjung, will anxiously await your assessment of the AE212 at the gig.

The AE212 will have MUCH more real low end than the BMF1212. Depending on the head, that can be a good thing or a bad thing. The MPulse600 has a HUGE low end extension that was 'too much' with many of the cabs I tried it with when I owned one. I would guess that the 1212BMF would sound VERY good with that head, nice yin yang between a very wide, deeply voiced, somewhat bloomy head with a super tight, deep low end attenuated box.

I think you are pretty much set there I still love my 115L+ (which is basically a 15BMF), and with the right head, it is very punchy and loud.

 

[MOSCOWBASS]

Have you tried it with the Puma yet Ken?

 

[mrpackerguy]

The AE212 will have MUCH more real low end than the BMF1212. Depending on the head, that can be a good thing or a bad thing. The MPulse600 has a HUGE low end extension that was 'too much' with many of the cabs I tried it with when I owned one. I would guess that the 1212BMF would sound VERY good with that head, nice yin yang between a very wide, deeply voiced, somewhat bloomy head with a super tight, deep low end attenuated box.

I think you are pretty much set there I still love my 115L+ (which is basically a 15BMF), and with the right head, it is very punchy and loud.

I'll probably post on it after my gig Saturday, but you are probably right. There is certainly a fullness to the Mpulse600 and I am just past "unity gain" on the bass control of the Mpulse and my basses to bring in enough low end to the 1212BMF. At 37#, it's an older guy's gigging dream, but the ultimate test is at the gig tomorrow night, a wedding gig where I won't be using PA support in a 6 piece band configuration playing classic rock and country and variety.