Bergantino AE212 - Just Released

[rpsands]

If Jim would tell you something about the crossover I'd be curious. It looks almost like he planned the driver offset to match the horn crossover region (e.g. since offset drivers become directional slightly sooner than vertically aligned drivers, based on how far they are offset).

 

[svtb15]

Something I may look at .. Since I am very displeased with my aggy db112s.. not at all what i was looking for in the long run.. The Berg looks interesting.

Well, here it is! The king of all 112s vs what could be the king of all lightweight 212s

I picked it up earlier this morning and decided to take a quick picture sitting next to the DB112 stack. Physically, you can see the AE212 is slightly taller but it is slightly more narrow and 4 inches less deep than the DB112s. Moving it around, it is actually just as easy to carry the AE212 as it is to move ONE DB112. It is about 10lbs heavier but the weight distribution is very even with the handle placement. It makes it very easy to move around.

OK...now to the tone comparison. In the end, it was nothing I was not expecting. The Aggies are very deep and round on the bottom end and smooth on the top. The AE212 has more edge to it on the top and the bottom. It is definitely more punchy than the DB112. SPL...It definitely goes to the AE212. But, I was expecting that when you just look at the sensitivity ratings of the two. The AE212 is considerably louder than the DB112 stack. That is probably where a lot of the extra punch is coming from. It is hard to say which one I prefer..they are just different. Neither better than the other...just different. In the end, I will probably keep both but sell a couple of the DB112s I have (I have 4...long story there) I hope to get some sound clips up later this week. And when I have some more time to spend with them, I will post more.

 

[rodneyat]

I actually have noticed that the whole response of the AE212 has softened and deepened just a smidge after 5 or 6 hours of playing. I typically don't notice this on most cabs, but this one seems to fatten up and smooth a bit as the surrounds loosen a touch. So, listen for that!

I LOVE this cab... love it, love it, love it. And, in my comparison with my TecAmp s212 (which has seen many gigs, so I know how it performs), the AE212 spanks it in low end and maxSPL (of course, it is 15 pounds heavier also). So, this should be killer on the gig.

That's interesting. We will see how it goes after a few hours of playing with mine, as well. So far, I have only played through the Epi head. Which, IME, is a more clean, "uncolored" sound. It will be interesting to see how it works with my RH450.

Another experiment will be running 3 DB112s against the AE212 just to see how the overall volume compares. One of the reasons I ended up with more than 2 of them is that on some outdoor gigs I was just pushing the limits of 2 DB112s. So, I added another. Since the AE212 is so much louder, I have a feeling it will be able to push out about the same volume as 3 of the DB112s. Then for grins, I can throw my AE112 with the AE212 and see how that flies!

 

[rodneyat]

Another interesting side note...Jim Rubio from the Atlanta Bass Gallery made some interesting comments about the AE212. We have very similar tastes in tone. He has been playing through an Epifani head and playing through an older Berg 210 and 115 stack. He said that the AE212 is a killer cab and will probably now be his cab of choice compared to the stack he is playing now. He said he had a long conversation with Jim Bergantino about the cab yesterday and he told Jim Bergantino he thinks it is the best cab he has made.

 

[RocketMusic]

I'm finding the cab has no shortage of bottom (in a good way). I'm still trying to figure out the mids and the treble with my main rig (Roscoe "Jazz" 5 -> Alembic F1X pre -> Crest CA4 power amp). The bottom seems more there than I'm used to (I usually play 10s). Definitely a nice cab, I could imagine using two of these in place of my current NV-610 cab... I'd stack two just to get one of 'em up in my ear, but that's just me...

I'll whip a clip together once I get a better handle on the overall EQ, I'm still trying to find my sound with it...

 

[KJung]

I'm finding the cab has no shortage of bottom (in a good way). I'm still trying to figure out the mids and the treble with my main rig (Roscoe "Jazz" 5 -> Alembic F1X pre -> Crest CA4 power amp). The bottom seems more there than I'm used to (I usually play 10s). Definitely a nice cab, I could imagine using two of these in place of my current NV-610 cab... I'd stack two just to get one of 'em up in my ear, but that's just me...

I'll whip a clip together once I get a better handle on the overall EQ, I'm still trying to find my sound with it...

Cool. Yeah, you definitely would not want a head with huge low end output with this cab on the gig if you like a punchy 410 type tone. That's why the MB F500 sounds SO good to me. However, if you want it fat, this cab will do it (especially given its size... very surprising).

 

[RocketMusic]

Cool. Yeah, you definitely would not want a head with huge low end output with this cab on the gig if you like a punchy 410 type tone. That's why the MB F500 sounds SO good to me. However, if you want it fat, this cab will do it (especially given its size... very surprising).

Yeah, that might be it. I tried it with a TC RH-450 and had a different situation: loads of mids, overall gnarly tone. I didn't bother messing with the EQ on that head, though, I just said "blech" and moved on to my rig (which I know I love).

I should sit down and run all the lightweight heads through this cab and tweak them until they sound good. I'm sure any of them can be made to work with it with just a smidge of tweaking. Patience has not been my strongest virtue today.

 

[RocketMusic]

Ah, I think I've got it figured out. With my cab (the NV610 cab), I usually run my bass with a slight bass and low-mid boost, sometimes even a slight high-mid boost (I use the 4-band Audere onboard pre). And I run the F1X 4-10-4 (bass-mid-treb, and 2-10-2 is "flat" in Alembic's world).

I set my bass's onboard EQ back to flat, then gave it a slight (10%?) high-mid boost. And I set the F1X 2-10-4. Now everything is there, and it's a very nice bass tone. I have to run my power amp a little hotter just 'cause both my onboard pre and my outboard pre are not as boosted down low as I usually run them. But that's OK, the tone is there and quite nice.

 

[speyer]

Boy, I really like the sound of the Tecamp with that cab compared to the other clips. Very nice.

+1 - You can really hear the Puma in that clip, which sounds beautiful through that Berg! The voice in that clip (generally speaking) is quite similar to my Puma combo's tone, thanks to it's tuning and deep low end extension.

To my ear... the AE212 is flatter sounding, whereas my combo is a little scooped in comparison when set flat. The AE also sounds a little wider/deeper and has a nice tight grind to it, with that classic bergie sizzle. In fact, it sounds frackin' awsome... I bet that rig will KILL on the gig Ken!

~pat

edit: IMO - that's the best sounding rig on your entire youtube channel

 

[Big String]

So Ken, in general do you think the F1/F500 is going to be a better match than the RH450??

 

[megadan]

You guys have no idea how much I want one of these!

And yet all my bands have just broken up

I love my NV610 and would love to have a smaller cab with similar style, tone, and quality. Interested to hear from anyone playing metal or heavier rock styles who've tried this cab; realize that may take a while

Just wish it wasn't so dang pricey, I would wait for one to pop up here on TB, but it's a pain to ship cabs up here to Canada, and I doubt I'll ever find one used here

 

[KJung]

+1 - You can really hear the Puma in that clip, which sounds beautiful through that Berg! The voice in that clip (generally speaking) is quite similar to my Puma combo's tone, thanks to it's tuning and deep low end extension.

To my ear... the AE212 is flatter sounding, whereas my combo is a little scooped in comparison when set flat. The AE also sounds a little wider/deeper and has a nice tight grind to it, with that classic bergie sizzle. In fact, it sounds frackin' awsome... I bet that rig will KILL on the gig Ken!

~pat

edit: IMO - that's the best sounding rig on your entire youtube channel

Thanks! It sounds good with the Puma! See my comments to Dean below.

 

[KJung]

So Ken, in general do you think the F1/F500 is going to be a better match than the RH450??

For me personally, the answer with any cab is most likely going to be the F1/F500. I really do like the RH450 with the tight and bright AE410, but the smoothness and mild top end of the RH450 combined with the wider, rounder sound of the AE212 is probably not going to work for me personally. I've messed with it just a little bit and it does sound good.. VERY warm, but a bit 'dull' to my ear. We will put up a clip when Jason is here tomorrow. I have high hopes with my Alleva LG (60's J) with nickels with that head and cab... haven't gotten there yet (Edit: I just noticed that Greg from RocketMusic posted similar feelings with the RH450 and AE212 above).

Also, as wonderful as the Puma sounds with the AE212 (I agree... that solo tone on the clip is DARN good!), that HUGE low end and super hi fi top end has gotten me in a bit of trouble on some gigs, with that low end just working a cab a bit too hard when really cranking (pistoning those drivers like crazy when cranking and slapping), and that pretty, sizzly, airy, crystal clear upper treble totally disappearing into drums, guitar, percussion, keys, four singers and a horn section (for other types of gigs.... piano trio's, etc... forget about it.. beautiful!).

That F1/F500 might not sound as 'pretty' as some other amps solo, but it just sits perfectly in a mix for me with my instruments, and the slightly wider, fatter tone of the AE212 should work great with it.

 

[KJung]

If Jim would tell you something about the crossover I'd be curious. It looks almost like he planned the driver offset to match the horn crossover region (e.g. since offset drivers become directional slightly sooner than vertically aligned drivers, based on how far they are offset).

I wouldn't know where to begin... way over my head. However, the inside of the box looks like a lot of thought went into it with that complicated 'bracing'. The more I play this, the more I'm hearing something unique compared to other 212's and 2 x 112 boxes (in a good way)... LOTS of mid character and punch like a 410, but a bit smoother and rounder. Very nice.

 

[RocketMusic]

I managed to capture some tasty tones this afternoon using the new AE-212! For those that aren't familiar with my sound clips, I tend to do studio sort of recording rather than video camera recording. It's less informative than Ken's approach in that I don't manipulate various parameters on the fly and tell you as I do it. But I do try to capture a variety of tones and tell you how I got them. The biggest thing for me is the audio quality, I like to let folks hear whatever I'm demo-ing as good as I can make it sound.

So for this clip, I wrote a quick chord change, programmed a quick drum loop, and then laid down some rhythm tracks and a lead line. I'll give ya'll the whole clip so you can see how the bass tone sits in the mix, and then I'll peel the onion back and expose the individual tracks so you can hear the raw tones by themselves.

My signal chain was this:

Roscoe Century Sig V w/ Joe Barden J-Pickups ->
Alembic F1X preamp ->
Crest CA4 power amp ->
Berg AE-212 ->
Peluso CEMC6 mic ->
M-Audio FastTrack Ultra 8R USB Interface ->
PC/Sonar Producer 8.5

Here's how the bass was set for each track:
Bass line: 100% Neck Pickup, slight high-mid boost, going for a P-Bass sound
Chords part: 100% Bridge pickup, slight bass and low-mid cut, going for something thin to avoid competing with the bass line and lead line
Lead Line: Both PUPs wide open, slight high mid boost, Flanger applied within Sonar

"AE-212" (All Tracks)
"AE-212" (Rhythm Tracks)
"AE-212" (Drum & Bass Line Tracks)
"AE-212" (Bass Line Track)

I've completely warmed up to this cabinet now, it's REALLY nice. As the session went on, I just kept digging it more and more.

 

[naturalkinds]

Nice clip, man! That sounds great.

 

[T. Alan Smith]

I listened to Kens vids last night with my iPhone and a pair of Sony MDR 7506 headphones. I went back and forth between them. And from what I could tell and for my tastes I liked the F500 / AE410 combination best. Damn. I guess I'll have to experience the 212 to really know.

 

[RocketMusic]

Nice clip, man! That sounds great.

Thanks!

 

[lookiel]

Wow! Great work making separate tracks with a full mix and just the bass/drum.
Gives much perspective on how things sound in a band context vs. solo.
I'd be really curious to hear the exact same thing through your NV610!

 

[emjazz]

LOTS of mid character and punch like a 410, but a bit smoother and rounder. Very nice.

This is EXACTLY what I was hoping for.