Bergantino AE212; Part 2!!

[tombowlus]

Looking forward to Jim B's next line of cabs -- suspect an excellent attempt to reduce the weight of conventional magnet driver cabs.

Just a little expectation-setting FYI, Jim id not a believer in lightweight woods. He feels that the density of baltic birch is a contributing factor to the performance of his cabs, and he's pretty committed to sticking with it. Now, there may be other options available with regard to weight reduction, but don't expect to see Bergantino enclosures made out of Italian poplar or anything like that.

Will be interesting to see if he tries to get close to the sonic signature of the AE's or what...

I'm not sure. To be honest, I think Jim always kind of rating the tone of his ceramic based designs as being a bit closer to his ideal tone goals than the AE's (though he was certainly proud of what he was able to do with the AE line). But if his players tell him that the tone of the AE line is worth replicating, even if the weight goes up, then my guess is that he'd listen.

Whatever he does, there is zero doubt that they will sound most excellent.

+1 to that.

 

[Vic]

Just a little expectation-setting FYI, Jim id not a believer in lightweight woods. He feels that the density of baltic birch is a contributing factor to the performance of his cabs, and he's pretty committed to sticking with it. Now, there may be other options available with regard to weight reduction, but don't expect to see Bergantino enclosures made out of Italian poplar or anything like that.

Yeah, in conversations I've had with him, he always puts tone in front of weight... by a pretty large margin... that's the whole reason it took him so long to bring Neo cabs to the market. Even with a Neo equipped cab, for example, if some bracing were needed to fully realize the results he was after, he'd put it in, rather than save the weight and have the cab be at only 90% of his target results.

He's one of the designer/builders out there that's passionate about their products, and it's very evident any time you use them.

 

[rodneyat]

Yeah, in conversations I've had with him, he always puts tone in front of weight... by a pretty large margin... that's the whole reason it took him so long to bring Neo cabs to the market. Even with a Neo equipped cab, for example, if some bracing were needed to fully realize the results he was after, he'd put it in, rather than save the weight and have the cab be at only 90% of his target results.

He's one of the designer/builders out there that's passionate about their products, and it's very evident any time you use them.

I've had similar discussions with him as well. He regularly gets "flack" for his AE line even being "heavy" Which could be true compared to some. But a pound or two here or there is nothing compared to the tonal enhancements. To be honest, most of the ultra lightweight neo cabs that I have played..sounded like crap. So, Jim has really hit a great point with his cabs making them light enough but not sacrificing tone. I don't see myself parting with my AE cabs....They're collectors items now! LOL

 

[KJung]

Yeah, in conversations I've had with him, he always puts tone in front of weight... by a pretty large margin... that's the whole reason it took him so long to bring Neo cabs to the market. Even with a Neo equipped cab, for example, if some bracing were needed to fully realize the results he was after, he'd put it in, rather than save the weight and have the cab be at only 90% of his target results.

He's one of the designer/builders out there that's passionate about their products, and it's very evident any time you use them.

Interestingly, the only nit I have to pick with the AE line is that the cabs vibrate more than any other cab I've owned. I'm a BIG fan of thick, lightweight wood, properly braced (ala Epifani). Something not quite right with the wood/bracing design on the AE's IMO... not a big problem though... I still love them.

 

[Vic]

Interestingly, the only nit I have to pick with the AE line is that the cabs vibrate more than any other cab I've owned. I'm a BIG fan of thick, lightweight wood, properly braced (ala Epifani). Something not quite right with the wood/bracing design on the AE's IMO... not a big problem though... I still love them.

Really? I've never experienced that with my 210's. Which cabs are you referring to? I know you've been through many.

 

[Musicman20]

Im sort of hoping Jim comes out with a HT112ER type cabinet again. Not fussed about weight. I think the size makes the biggest difference.

Has the HT line completely gone as well?

 

[Eublet]

The Aguilar DB cabs have the ideal tone to me. I've never found those in a Neo line, but also most ceramic cabs don't really have that tone either. I'd love it if Jim could bring that kind of tone about in a lighter weight.

For that matter, if I don't like the AE112, it's going up on the block quickly FS/T in favor of some combo of DB cabs, 112, 210 or 410. I haven't decided yet which if the AE112 doesn't meet my liking. I'm tired of screwing around with neo cabs all the time looking for an ideal tone when I know I can get what I want exactly with the Aggie DB line. With Neo cabs getting priced higher or being discontinued, this AE112 is my last ditch effort. I'm really tired of screwing with all this stuff, and want to focus more on playing.

 

[Will Kelly]

Word was that the HT line was done. Who knows now, though. I will also miss the HT EX 12's.

 

[Musicman20]

Not to derail but im with you Eublet on the beautiful tone of the DBs. I have a DB212 and it is my favourite bass cabinet by far. Always tempted to get more DB cabs but we shall see. I still havent settled on a neo cab Im 100% happy with and with the price rises/discontinuing models, I will probably not bother now. Yes, the DBs arent lightweight, but the DB212 isnt that much more/the same as some neo 4x10s.

Back to Berg!

 

[Eublet]

Not to derail but im with you Eublet on the beautiful tone of the DBs. I have a DB212 and it is my favourite bass cabinet by far. Always tempted to get more DB cabs but we shall see. I still havent settled on a neo cab Im 100% happy with and with the price rises/discontinuing models, I will probably not bother now. Yes, the DBs arent lightweight, but the DB212 isnt that much more/the same as some neo 4x10s.

Back to Berg!

Agreed! Since the DB's are ceramic loaded, my wish would be for Jim to do something similar, but cut the weight by 20% or so. I know weight is a secondary issue to him, but if it's possible I'd be all over it. I've heard the HS line is similar to the Aggie DB, but perhaps more low-mid oriented rather than mid-mid. I've never tried them...perhaps I should.

 

[tombowlus]

Im sort of hoping Jim comes out with a HT112ER type cabinet again. Not fussed about weight. I think the size makes the biggest difference.

I know that this tweeter is no longer available, but I'm hoping it comes back, too (though with a different tweet, I think).

Has the HT line completely gone as well?

Gone, but not forgotten!

 

[John D Harris]

Just a little expectation-setting FYI, Jim id not a believer in lightweight woods. He feels that the density of baltic birch is a contributing factor to the performance of his cabs, and he's pretty committed to sticking with it. Now, there may be other options available with regard to weight reduction, but don't expect to see Bergantino enclosures made out of Italian poplar or anything like that.



...

IMO, greenboy, with his fEarful cab designs, has shown that 1/2" good plywood (I prefer Baltic Birch, even though it is heavier than some of the others) when properly braced can supress a lot of serious vibrations and save a fair bit of weight.

I would think it would at least be worth Jim's investigating (assuming he hasn't already).

 

[tombowlus]

IMO, greenboy, with his fEarful cab designs, has shown that 1/2" good plywood (I prefer Baltic Birch, even though it is heavier than some of the others) when properly braced can supress a lot of serious vibrations and save a fair bit of weight.

I would think it would at least be worth Jim's investigating (assuming he hasn't already).

While I agree that the fEARful cab design manages to shave some weight and seems quite sturdy & non-resonant, let me just say that I have had this discussion with Jim, and he still prefers Baltic birch.

 

[Eublet]

While I agree that the fEARful cab design manages to shave some weight and seems quite sturdy & non-resonant, let me just say that I have had this discussion with Jim, and he still prefers Baltic birch.

Agreed. The heavier, thicker wood seems to offer some tonal differences. As an example, I remember that Aguilar uses the same drivers in the GS and DB cabs, but in addition to port tuning the DB cabs use a thicker, heavier wood to help achieve the tone profile. Those two lines sound VERY different even though the exact same drivers are used in both.

As for the Bergs, Jim knows what he's doing and what he's after. I might not like the end result of everything he does for my own needs, but I don't doubt that he's done his research to get what he wants.

 

[greenboy]

While I agree that the fEARful cab design manages to shave some weight and seems quite sturdy & non-resonant, let me just say that I have had this discussion with Jim, and he still prefers Baltic birch.

Thickness doesn't matter - RIGIDITY does. That can be achieved a number of ways. 1/2" properly braced will do better than most companies 3/4" construction, which often lacks bracing or plans it poorly.

Also Note that a lot of people build their fEARfuls out of true Baltic [or Finish] Birch. Please do not confuse issues further ; }

 

[tombowlus]

Thickness doesn't matter - RIGIDITY does. That can be achieved a number of ways. 1/2" properly braced will do better than most companies 3/4" construction, which often lacks bracing or plans it poorly.

Jim does have some thoughts about wood choice that do go beyond rigidity (which is of course highly important), but I don't feel that I am free to air these thoughts here. Personally, I have have had good results from a variety of construction techniques, and as I have stated many times, I am very impressed by the performance of my fEARfuls.

But Jim Bergantino does think things through, and he generally does things a certain way for a reason. He is not building is cabs heavier than some might think they need to be just for the sake of making them heavier. He has his reasons for preferring the materials and construction techniques which he employs. And FWIW, his cabs are braced pretty nicely inside.

Also Note that a lot of people build their fEARfuls out of true Baltic [or Finish] Birch. Please do not confuse issues further ; }

I never said that fEARfuls weren't built of birch from across the Pond, so I am not sure where any confusion would come from, but I'm sorry if I did interject any confusion on this point. My comment was meant to be read in the context of responding to lo-freq's post (which did mention Baltic birch).

 

[greenboy]

Hey Tom, I'm not arguing with either you or Jim {kind of hard to debate any wood perceptions that aren't fully aired anyway, and it would be so much nonce withut actual measurements - PROOF;}. I'm just pointing out some items before the truck starts rolling downhill. I know how fast this stuff can unravel if there are several ways to interpret a simple statement ; }

 

[tombowlus]

I know how fast this stuff can unravel if there are several ways to interpret a simple statement ; }

True enough.

 

[Tony G]

So this is real, huh? No more AE line? Well, I'm glad I have my AE410 and AE210, but I was really hoping to buy an AE212 eventually when my finances start coming around. This makes me really curious as to the future of lightweight bass cabs.

 

[GRoberts]

So this is real, huh? No more AE line? Well, I'm glad I have my AE410 and AE210, but I was really hoping to buy an AE212 eventually when my finances start coming around. This makes me really curious as to the future of lightweight bass cabs.

I was sort of thinking I could always get an AE212 down the road if I felt the urge. Now, I'm not so sure I'll be able to find one to try when the time comes. But for now, like you Tony, I am mighty glad I have my AE410. That cab is a KEEPER!