Bergantino's Vertical 410!!!!!

[Element Zero]

I think many believe because it’s a “bass” guitar you must need a 21” subwoofer to faithfully reproduce it. I also find it laughable how often players compare designs on specs alone. This is getting old. The fact is if you’ve had even a moderate amount of exposure to various designs you know specs don’t tell the whole story. In fact, usually not even close. Bottom line, I think I’m getting old!;-)

“tHe LoW e HaS a FuNdAmEnTaL oF 41 Hz!!!”

Haters gonna hate. That particular arrangement of 410 is something I’ve been interested in for a few years now

 

[Geepers]

I think many believe because it’s a “bass” guitar you must need a 21” subwoofer to faithfully reproduce it. I also find it laughable how often players compare designs on specs alone. This is getting old. The fact is if you’ve had even a moderate amount of exposure to various designs you know specs don’t tell the whole story. In fact, usually not even close. Bottom line, I think I’m getting old!;-)

As Scott Beckwith says, “truth is what comes out of the speaker”

 

[J Wilson]

As well as how difficult it is to achieve "big" LF extension is a box of this size.

Of course LFE numbers are not the only defining factor of the perception of low end, the rolloff slope is as you point out different from a ported cabinet, and in reality extreme LFE may not be all that desired under many (or most) applications. I think today's (more sophisticated) player's adoption of the HPF highlights this now more than ever.

SVT 810 cabinets have done this for years, that sealed box rolloff in the DEEP end.

 

[J Wilson]

Here you go, 4-10's in a straight vertical lineup:

This was better:

JBL Cabaret 410 with two of their then-current 'bullet' tweeters. This was the beginning of me appreciating and wrapping my head around a 'line array' layout (somehow the Peaveys never sounded anywhere close to these, but then again, I heard them in a Bingo Hall . . . . ). At the store one day, just for the what if's, we hooked two of these as the top of a biamp stack, with a Cabaret single 18 on the low pass running off a CS800. Made one HELL of a bass rig !

If Mr Bergantino thinks that's how he wants them (it obviously lowers the overall height), that's good enough for me.

 

[jthisdell]

IME all of Jim’s cabs are great

 

[Pep]

Here you go, 4-10's in a straight vertical lineup:

View attachment 7288678

This was better:

View attachment 7288682
JBL Cabaret 410 with two of their then-current 'bullet' tweeters. This was the beginning of me appreciating and wrapping my head around a 'line array' layout (somehow the Peaveys never sounded anywhere close to these, but then again, I heard them in a Bingo Hall . . . . ). At the store one day, just for the what if's, we hooked two of these as the top of a biamp stack, with a Cabaret single 18 on the low pass running off a CS800. Made one HELL of a bass rig !

If Mr Bergantino thinks that's how he wants them (it obviously lowers the overall height), that's good enough for me.

i’m overjoyed that it’s good enough for you as It’s good enough for me as well, but not what I’m looking for. Also, thanks for the history lesson.

 

[darwin-bass]

I think many believe because it’s a “bass” guitar you must need a 21” subwoofer to faithfully reproduce it. I also find it laughable how often players compare designs on specs alone. This is getting old. The fact is if you’ve had even a moderate amount of exposure to various designs you know specs don’t tell the whole story. In fact, usually not even close. Bottom line, I think I’m getting old!;-)

So much of the sound is determined by all the stuff that happens above the lowest octave. F3 is interesting, but I suspect most of us give it too much credit for being the be-all-end-all metric.

IMHO, the most important spec is who designed the cab. If it came from a known-good place then you can be sure it is going to sound good irrespective of the paper specs. Pick a good builder, then go hear the cab. Live with it for a while. Figure out where that version of good is what you're looking for or not.

 

[calypsocoral302]

Wow!

The 410 design I've always wanted.

View attachment 7288331

That's a handsome-looking cab!

It kind of looks like a downsized take on the old Mesa Powerhouse 412's-- which I mean as a compliment, as I always considered that a pretty bada5$ looking cab!

 

[Smooth_bass88]

no thanks

 

[John D Harris]

YAABDGTS!

Yet Another Awesome Bergantino Design Gone Too Soon!

 

[HolmeBass]

I'm kind of stuck on "only"?
101dB is, objectively, an efficient cabinet.

Keep in mind that Bergantino is more known for honest specs than puffery.

I just expect more volume from a 4-driver cabinet. It’s only “only” in comparison to other 410’s, some of which hit 106. I have a 212 that’s hits 102.

 

[HolmeBass]

IME when it's not specifically indicated as -3dB, it's usually -10dB, which is often called "usable response."

Let's keep in mind this is a sealed cab that is essentially intended to give you the performance of the NV610T in a smaller package. From the product page:

• ...it preserves the NV610T’s tonal character in a much more compact, stage friendly format.

The NV610T sensitivity is 103dB 2.83V/1m and it is rated for 800W. The NV410T sensitivity is 101.5dB 2.83V/1m with a 1000W power rating. The sensitivity of the individual drivers for both cabs is about 92d 1W/1m. The drivers in the 610 handle 133W each. The drivers in the 410 handle 250W each. Keeping almost the same sensitivity and almost doubling the power handling of the drivers seems pretty impressive to me.

Calculated SPL for NV610T at 800W = 129dB. Calculated SPL for NV410T at 1000W = 128.5dB

For that many drivers/that much weight I personally prefer something louder.

What was the target you said you needed to gig with? Was 126 dB, or 124 dB? Weren’t you getting that with a 210?

 

[HolmeBass]

If it’s -10 dB at 48 Hz, what is a guess on the -3 dB frequency? Don’t sealed boxes usually roll off less steeply than ported?

 

[scuzzy]

I'd gladly rock it. Track record of greatness.

 

[rodl2005]

I thunk this'll be wicked.
I've got the HG410 and it's handled most/all sensible EQ's I've thrown at it.

Even with the B|Amp at a decent volume
Plenty of low end for my needs.

 

[Wasnex]

For that many drivers/that much weight I personally prefer something louder.

What was the target you said you needed to gig with? Was 126 dB, or 124 dB? Weren’t you getting that with a 210?

Based on the specs for various rigs I have used, my personal headroom target is a rig capable of at least 124dB calculated (min) based on the rig's usable RMS power.

My last touring rig primarily included an Eden D210XLT, which was rated 350W RMS and had 103dB 1W/1m sensitivity. I pushed it with one side of a 260W per channel amp, so calculated SPL was 127dB. I don't think I ever pushed the amp to clipping. However, there were times when I accepted not hearing particularly well rather than turning up and adding to the mayhem on stage.

My feeling is the specs for the D210XLT are probably a bit optimistic, but it was a pretty efficient cab IMHO. However, I think it's important to know I don't run heavy lows on stage as I prefer to let the PA do the heavy lifting.

I am pretty sure the NV410T would provide plenty of headroom for my needs if powered appropriately. I am sure a quality 800W amp would be plenty. I have no idea if I would like the way the NV410T sounds. A demo would be required.

 

[Wasnex]

If it’s -10 dB at 48 Hz, what is a guess on the -3 dB frequency? Don’t sealed boxes usually roll off less steeply than ported?

AFAIK...in general sealed rolls of at 12dB per octave and ported at 24dB per octave. I believe the ported can have a compound sloped, meaning the rate of roll off can change.

 

[John D Harris]

For that many drivers/that much weight I personally prefer something louder.

What was the target you said you needed to gig with? Was 126 dB, or 124 dB? Weren’t you getting that with a 210?

Those are a couple of the trade offs that people who prefer the sound of sealed cabs with non-neo drivers are often willing to make

 

[roccobass]

The only one of those specs that looks off-putting to me is the 79 lbs. Well, depending on whether that 48 Hz is the - 3 dB point or (more likely) the -10 dB point.

For portability reasons I'd rather have a pair of 2x10s. Two boxes, two trips.

Looks like a powerful cab for sure. It really does look it could kick some butt.

However, I too am past those days where schlepping a weighty beastie was ok for me. At 79 lbs, I couldn’t even get it up the stairs to my residence. More power to those with young backs.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

Based on Bergantino sealed cab reputation, this cab no doubt *sounds good* at 41Hz. To me this trumps the printed spec (like my Heritage fridge (sealed) which I love).

I don't mind a cab that rolls off (as the practicality of this has been explained many times); what I mind is a cab that rolls off and then also sounds bad, like a ported cab that's tuned too high.

I believe what kevk said about this cab having "a touch more clarity top to bottom" than the NV610, because when I drive only half of my fridge (top or bottom 4x10), it is clearer (due to less complicated acoustic coupling, etc). And since this cab is almost vertical (not a square array), it should be even clearer.

I like it. Thank you.