Beware Fodera's "certified pre-owned" web page and consignment deals

[rlbates99]

I don't see how your instrument was historic regardless of what "Mike" said. This isn't the "Ying Yang" bass that was made along with the first one built. To me that would be historic. Again I'm probably missing something here.

Hey Phil. Yeah, I didn't call it "historic". The guy at Fodera did in the listing he posted on their site. You're right, mine wasn't made along with the very first Y/Y, but it was made along with the first one with the new 2006 specs (different woods ... walnut body, figured satinwood/ebony top, etc). But that's not the reason he labelled it "historic". He labelled it that way because it was made alongside Vic's '06, "from adjoining cuts of wood", etc.

Sure, the debate about whether or not that "really" made it "worth more" is interesting, but it really is totally irrelevant to the issue. Things don't have any intrisic value, right? Nothing does. The value of something is nothing more than what 1 or more people are willing to pay for it. For that reason, "value", in my opinion, is kind of an abstract concept, but a simple one. And this bass, when it actually sold to a buyer other than the agent who was supposed to be facilitating the consigment for me, did sell for over 12k. So evidently, we can be sure that atleast one guy felt the bass was worth that amount. Whether it was worth that by some definition or evaluation or other ... is a totally separation discussion. What is central to THIS discussion, is that what I was paid for it was about 50% of the selling price, rather than the agreed upon 80% - another very simple, straight-forward fact.

This kind of discussion really can go on indefinitely, so to avoid the "temptation" of jumping into the thread again, I'm not going to come back to it. I was just curious to check it out, when my friend from another forum told me about it. The issue is still not resolved, and I hope that one day soon I can come back here and let you guys know that Fodera opted to do the right thing.

Peace, Grace & Bass in yer Face,
Robert

 

[Brad Johnson]

I don't see how your instrument was historic regardless of what "Mike" said. This isn't the "Ying Yang" bass that was made along with the first one built. To me that would be historic. Again I'm probably missing something here.

If it wasn't somehow "historic", why would it sell for $12k?

 

[Phil Smith]

If it wasn't somehow "historic", why would it sell for $12k?

Well, it's definitely historic now or should I say notorious.

 

[Woodchuck]

You guys are missing the point. Really.

He was told that he would get 80% which was 6200 because "Mike" already had a buyer. The OP agreed to 80%. "Mike" puts on his capitalism jacket before the transaction is even finalized knowing the bass is worth more.

This "Mike" lied about the buyer and the 80% value.

Whether or not "Mike" just runs his own shop with Fodera, Fodera has this type of petty thievery associated with them now.

Yes, he stole the difference and lied to the OP. They had a verbal agreement for 80% of the sale price.

You guys need to get off your high horse. Really. This is a dirty way to do business. Period.

+1!!!!! If the story is indeed true, I TOTALLY agree!

 

[CelinderMotoMan]

Now you're assuming he didn't... despite the fact that he was selling his bass through them. Why?

Because Brad, he said that he didn't. I know that I don't sale something whether outright or consignment without having a price in mind. I have never even talked to a dealer and wasn't asked what I wanted to get for it or was told what it could sell for.

 

[CelinderMotoMan]

My side is the only side I can give, right? So it doesn't make since to imply that it's somehow "suspicious" that I'm not telling you anyone else's side.

That was aimed at all of the people who are assuming that Fodera was a knowing party in all of this.

Research? The whole "boutique" thing was new to me. Maybe my viewpoint was simplistic or naive, but I didn't know there was anything unique about the history of the bass, and it didn't occur to me to ask the question, "Hey Joey, is there anything that any prospective buyer might consider an added collectbility factor about this bass that I should know about?"

I know that I never sold something, whether outright or consignment, without having a price in mind. I have never even talked to a dealer and wasn't asked what I wanted to get for it or was told what it could sell for. I guess your naiveness burned you here.

I guess my question to you in response would be, when Fodera's records regarding my bass were reviewed by the guy handling the consignment when they received my bass, and he discovered that it was (in his words from the listing he created on their site after sending me a check) a "historic instrument" ... what does the fact that he kept that info close to his chest and chose to not share it with me, indicate to you about his intentions, and the level of integrity of those intentions? That's "ok" in your opinion?

Once again, even you don't know what went down. The employee bought your bass with his own money, maybe he was going to keep it then found out that it was worth more.
I have bought basses on Ebay and sold them for up to $1000 more, should I contact the person that I bought it from and send them more money?

You say "I've explained my viewpoint to "Mike" as well as to Vinny & Joey - which is that I am still due the full 80% of the actual selling price (to the real buyer .. not the Fodera employee handling the consignment for me ... isn't that sort of a no-brainer?), as Joey and I discussed. "
What did Joey say when you talked to him about it? What did Vinnie say?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Because Brad, he said that he didn't. I know that I don't sale something whether outright or consignment without having a price in mind. I have never even talked to a dealer and wasn't asked what I wanted to get for it or was told what it could sell for.

So what builders have you consigned through? And what does your consignment experience have to do with this?


Are you saying he was told what it would sell for and it then was sold for almost double that price afterwards?
When did he say that he didn't ask what the value was during this consignment process?

 

[Wilbyman]

+1!!!!! If the story is indeed true, I TOTALLY agree!

I love my Fodera but +2, it ain't right!

 

[Brad Johnson]

Once again, even you don't know what went down. The employee bought your bass with his own money, maybe he was going to keep it then found out that it was worth more.
I have bought basses on Ebay and sold them for up to $1000 more, should I contact the person that I bought it from and send them more money?

You seem to be completely ignoring the the fact of who was handling the consignment... unless it's your contention that "Mike" didn't find out the value until AFTER he bought the bass, apparently with his own money.... and then advertised and sold it. That seems shaky at best.

I've bought basses and sold them for profit too... and your premise is pretty pointless in this context. You weren't providing a PAID SERVICE for the eBay seller... were you?

You say "I've explained my viewpoint to "Mike" as well as to Vinny & Joey - which is that I am still due the full 80% of the actual selling price (to the real buyer .. not the Fodera employee handling the consignment for me ... isn't that sort of a no-brainer?), as Joey and I discussed. "
What did Joey say when you talked to him about it? What did Vinnie say?

I'd be interested in your answer to this hypothetical question: IF his story holds up and it happened as he said it happened, where would you stand on this in that event?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Well, it's definitely historic now or should I say notorious.

If it sold for $12k, Phil, it had to have already had some history.

 

[CelinderMotoMan]

So what builders have you consigned through?

Not that it is relavent, but I have discussed consignment deals with Fodera, Lowend, Austin Bass Traders, Bass Central, Electric City Music, Planet Bass, GGuitars, Bass World, Bass Trading, Marshal Music, M&M Music, Club Bass , Bass Club Chicago, LA Bass Exchange, Bass Northwest, Atlanta Bass Gallery, Groove Shoppe and more that I am forgetting. The point is no one has ever not talked price with me.

And what does your consignment experience have to do with this?

Just as much as anyone else's posted opinion has to do with it, same as yours.

Are you saying he was told what it would sell for and it then was sold for almost double that price afterwards?
When did he say that he didn't ask what the value was during this consignment process?

He said that he was naive, plus he never said that he did.
If anyone sends their $7000-$10,000 bass in to someone for consignment without discussing a price they are an idiot. Period. Why would you even pay to ship a bass without knowing what you were going to get for it?

 

[CelinderMotoMan]

You seem to be completely ignoring the the fact of who was handling the consignment... unless it's your contention that "Mike" didn't find out the value until AFTER he bought the bass, apparently with his own money.... and then advertised and sold it. That seems shaky at best.

No one knows what happened, and that is my point. But please everyone go ahead and assume that Fodera is unethical.
Make sure that it gets around on the internet and becomes "notorious" without knowing the facts.

I'd be interested in your answer to this hypothetical question: IF his story holds up and it happened as he said it happened, where would you stand on this in that event?

I don't answer hypithetical questions, I do know Joey and Vinnie and I give them the benefit of the doubt because that is the right thing to do.

p.s. I don't know "mike" or Robert so I can't vouche for either ones character..

 

[fishtx]

Is anyone from Fodera a member here at TB? and if so, have they chimed in?...and if not...why not?

Also, If there are members here that know the cats at Fodera, someone please call them and let them know this thread is going on, and ask that they get in here and explain.

I'm sure they will want to do the right thing, and right now the right things is to explain this, and fix it if something was done improperly...

 

[lamarjones]

Is anyone from Fodera a member here at TB? and if so, have they chimed in?...and if not...why not?

Also, If there are members here that know the cats at Fodera, someone please call them and let them know this thread is going on, and ask that they get in here and explain.

I'm sure they will want to do the right thing, and right now the right things is to explain this, and fix it if something was done improperly...

With all due respect, it actually doesn't do a lot of good to come into a fire pit if you AREN'T trying to have the longest most publicly drawn out converstion on this, which is not in their interest either way. It's a crappy scenario, but its also dirty laundry aired publicly which some people thrive on (and this thead itself has turned into the bold and the beautiful), I personally don't see how a fair shake would ever come out.

That said, it does seem like a sketchy situation, however its not a robbery type situation. I PERSONALLY would love to know what kind of shadiness might have transpired, but I can't get over the fact that 6200 for a yin yang is a very reasonable price for one of those, so I can't imagine this is a real easy thing to figure out. A lot of conversations would have to be replayed verbatim in order for me to even think about having an unbiased opinion. But then that would be the difference in strict buisnessmen/salesman and samaritans, it would be an awful lot to make me think crook since 6200 was straight up accepted.

Still, 12k for one of these?!?!?! Who would have thought!

 

[CelinderMotoMan]

I still have never saw any proof that the bass sold for $12,000 or even a picture of the bass in discussion.
I thought the first rule of Talkbass was "no pics, no bass".

 

[lamarjones]

I still have never saw any proof that the bass sold for $12,000 or even a picture of the bass in discussion.
I thought the first rule of Talkbass was "no pics, no bass".

i think that needs to be established

 

[Brad Johnson]

Not that it is relavent, but I have discussed consignment deals with Fodera, Lowend, Austin Bass Traders, Bass Central, Electric City Music, Planet Bass, GGuitars, Bass World, Bass Trading, Marshal Music, M&M Music, Club Bass , Bass Club Chicago, LA Bass Exchange, Bass Northwest, Atlanta Bass Gallery, Groove Shoppe and more that I am forgetting. The point is no one has ever not talked price with me.



Just as much as anyone else's posted opinion has to do with it, same as yours.

That wasn't an opinion, it was relating an experience. That had nothing to do with his.

He said that he was naive, plus he never said that he did.
If anyone sends their $7000-$10,000 bass in to someone for consignment without discussing a price they are an idiot. Period. Why would you even pay to ship a bass without knowing what you were going to get for it?

Then I guess I would've been an idiot because I've called them in the past to get an idea of the value of my older Anthony Jackson contrabass. They couldn't tell me the value without seeing it, which would involve me sending it to them.


So much for "idiots". Not that you namecalling is the least bit helpul IMO.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I still have never saw any proof that the bass sold for $12,000 or even a picture of the bass in discussion.
I thought the first rule of Talkbass was "no pics, no bass".

The first rule is adding carrots as an option on polls.

 

[Brad Johnson]

No one knows what happened, and that is my point. But please everyone go ahead and assume that Fodera is unethical.
Make sure that it gets around on the internet and becomes "notorious" without knowing the facts.

Please go ahead and ASSUME that I did that. I clearly didn't.

I don't answer hypithetical questions, I do know Joey and Vinnie and I give them the benefit of the doubt because that is the right thing to do.

That's pretty hypocritical, considering how many hypothetical scenarios you keep bringing up. Isn't it?

It's a simple straightforward question... so by all means don't answer it.

p.s. I don't know "mike" or Robert so I can't vouche for either ones character..

No one is vouching for anyone, though it's pretty clear a few of you are trying to poke holes in his story. Because...


I can only guess as to why.


BTW no one asked you to vouch for anyone.

 

[Phil Smith]

If it sold for $12k, Phil, it had to have already had some history.

Yeah, 1 years worth of recent history, built in 2006 sold by the owner in 2007. Come on Brad, don't you have enough splinters from the straws in your hand?