Beware Fodera's "certified pre-owned" web page and consignment deals

[bburk]

I refuse to base a decision based on half of the story, it's too bad that others choose to do so, and on a public forum.

I don't redily see anywhere where anyone besides the storys author states that they believe the story is unadulterated fact.

What I do see are people that say what "Mike" did in the story (please note that last word) was a perfectly acceptable business practice, other people who want to correct those people by explaining that consignment != sale to the consignee. Then there are a few other people who can't seem to understand the difference between objectively discussing a story as presented and a 'whichhunt'.

If we removed all referenced to Fodera in the story, would there still be a problem? BTW, if you really like Fodera's products and business as a company you would do them better service by simply stating your overall satisfaction with your experience with them. Shouting down anyone who might have had (or heard of) a negative experience only makes you look like a shill and degrades the credability of your own experience.

Almost any business will have had complaints raised by their customers. Just look at the Link Removed (Fodera isn't listed BTW) site for any reasonably sized company. Reasonable people when presented with reports of negative experiences with a business or product will weigh that against the positives and try to make an informed decision. Attempting to supress the dissemination of such information only serves to hinder a consumer's information gathering capabilites. For every person that has an axe to grind with a company you can probably count on at least one other person who is an uncompromisable fan.

A good company won't come in here and defend itself. It will attempt to make right by their customer and let them explain the resolution to all interested parties. I'm hoping that Robert comes back in here in a few weeks and tells us that's exactly what happened. So, let's please quit the bickering and make this a hospitable place for him to return to.


BTW Robert, a compaint with the BBB may be an appropriate course of action in your situation if you don't feel resolution is forthcoming.

 

[aborgman]

And when did he find out the ultimate value?

A legitimate question. Another set of which is:


a) What type of agent regulation exists in the state where the bass was sold

b) What type of agent regulation exists in the state where the original owner resides

c) What type of verbal contract (or written policy) does their consignment site operate under

 

[Phil Smith]

So let me get this straight... if this story is true AND SO FAR NO ONE INVOLVED HAS COME FORWARD TO DISPUTE IT (maybe no one at Fodera has heard about this thread yet), the "holes" are what exactly?


What I see here is people looking for holes. That's pretty obvious.

Because someone doesn't come and dispute a accusation in this forum doesn't mean that the accusation is true or that it has any truth to it.

You seem to think it's all iron clad and bonafide, which is kind of interesting, but then again maybe you don't.

Everyone is going on about what "Mike" did, but I didn't see where it was stated that the check that was issued was from "Mike" as in a personal check so I think it's safe to assume it was a check drawn on the Fodera account, so they either all conspired to deprive a fellow of $12,000(bogus "historic" wording that we can't see now aside) for a used bass that they sell new for $9,000 or there's something else going on here.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Because someone doesn't come and dispute a accusation in this forum doesn't mean that the accusation is true or that it has any truth to it.

Did anyone say it was?

A couple of you seem to be doing some nice interpretive reading vs. looking at the actual words, in context, in their entirety. Why?

Exhibit T...

You seem to think it's all iron clad and bonafide, which is kind of interesting, but then again maybe you don't.

Read bburk's post #141. It explains quite well why you're dead wrong with what you think I'm doing.

You can't show one thing that even hints that I think anything is all iron clad and bonafide. That's all in your head, not mine. You may want to ask yourself why.

Everyone is going on about what "Mike" did, but I didn't see where it was stated that the check that was issued was from "Mike" as in a personal check so I think it's safe to assume it was a check drawn on the Fodera account, so they either all conspired to deprive a fellow of $12,000(bogus "historic" wording that we can't see now aside) for a used bass that they sell new for $9,000 or there's something else going on here.

This is laid out early in the thread... maybe you missed it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I don't redily see anywhere where anyone besides the storys author states that they believe the story is unadulterated fact.

What I do see are people that say what "Mike" did in the story (please note that last word) was a perfectly acceptable business practice, other people who want to correct those people by explaining that consignment != sale to the consignee. Then there are a few other people who can't seem to understand the difference between objectively discussing a story as presented and a 'whichhunt'.

If we removed all referenced to Fodera in the story, would there still be a problem? BTW, if you really like Fodera's products and business as a company you would do them better service by simply stating your overall satisfaction with your experience with them. Shouting down anyone who might have had (or heard of) a negative experience only makes you look like a shill and degrades the credability of your own experience.

Almost any business will have had complaints raised by their customers. Just look at the Link Removed (Fodera isn't listed BTW) site for any reasonably sized company. Reasonable people when presented with reports of negative experiences with a business or product will weigh that against the positives and try to make an informed decision. Attempting to supress the dissemination of such information only serves to hinder a consumer's information gathering capabilites. For every person that has an axe to grind with a company you can probably count on at least one other person who is an uncompromisable fan.

A good company won't come in here and defend itself. It will attempt to make right by their customer and let them explain the resolution to all interested parties. I'm hoping that Robert comes back in here in a few weeks and tells us that's exactly what happened. So, let's please quit the bickering and make this a hospitable place for him to return to.


BTW Robert, a compaint with the BBB may be an appropriate course of action in your situation if you don't feel resolution is forthcoming.

+1

 

[Brad Johnson]

A legitimate question. Another set of which is:


a) What type of agent regulation exists in the state where the bass was sold

b) What type of agent regulation exists in the state where the original owner resides

c) What type of verbal contract (or written policy) does their consignment site operate under

All pertinent to this issue.

 

[Lesfunk]

I think its criminal enough selling a piece of wood for $12k alone..but then again no one is forced to pay it

Thank you!

 

[Phil Smith]

Did anyone say it was?

A couple of you seem to be doing some nice interpretive reading vs. looking at the actual words, in context, in their entirety. Why?

Okay. when you say the following:

So let me get this straight... if this story is true AND SO FAR NO ONE INVOLVED HAS COME FORWARD TO DISPUTE IT (maybe no one at Fodera has heard about this thread yet), the "holes" are what exactly?

Do you mean you think the story is true or do you mean there's good reason to assume it's true because somone involved hasn't come along and disputed it?

Exhibit T...


Read bburk's post #141. It explains quite well why you're dead wrong with what you think I'm doing.

You can't show one thing that even hints that I think anything is all iron clad and bonafide. That's all in your head, not mine. You may want to ask yourself why.

I did say "seem to" and also said "maybe not", but it's more an attempt to get at what you are saying, hypothetically speaking of course.

 

[bigfatbass]

And the semantic sissy fight continues....as I said it would.

You are all saying the same thing, lol, just nit picking the exact words used to express it.

And a side point that really has no bearing on the argument because Fodera is not the offending party, the consignment board (Mike) is: So, Fodera thinks boards like this aren't worth their time? What the froog do they think made their extragalactic priced toys so popular/well known in the first place? Before forums like this, demand for instruments like their's was a hair on the zit on the butt of what it is now. If you didn't follow a player who played one, or subscribe to a bass mag, you had no idea who they were.

Here's my hypothetical, again with no real bearing on the actual trouble in this thread: Say a deal was directly with Fodera (or any other top shelf gear maker) and something had gone wrong in some way to result in a 5k discrepancy, with the fault lying on Fodera's side in the form of a sketchy deal/really bad customer service. Bear with me here, I think this is a valid point. Wouldn't a thread publicly calling them out in a forum of this size/focus be sufficient cause to take notice?

I have said this many times, and am often poo-pooed for it, but I'll lay money I'm right. It takes years of good product and good service over hundreds of transactions to build up a rep like Fodera has.

But, if they think one credible negative thread here wouldn't have an impact on their bottom line in such a scenario as I described, they are sadly Jurassic in their view of the global marketplace.

I'm certainly not saying they should chime in here on this topic, but to say it is below their need to notice is laughable.

 

[Munjibunga]

And the semantic sissy fight continues....as I said it would.

You are all saying the same thing, lol, just nit picking the exact words used to express it.

And a side point that really has no bearing on the argument because Fodera is not the offending party, the consignment board (Mike) is: So, Fodera thinks boards like this aren't worth their time? What the froog do they think made their extragalactic priced toys so popular/well known in the first place? Before forums like this, demand for instruments like their's was a hair on the zit on the butt of what it is now. If you didn't follow a player who played one, or subscribe to a bass mag, you had no idea who they were.

Here's my hypothetical, again with no real bearing on the actual trouble in this thread: Say a deal was directly with Fodera (or any other top shelf gear maker) and something had gone wrong in some way to result in a 5k discrepancy, with the fault lying on Fodera's side in the form of a sketchy deal/really bad customer service. Bear with me here, I think this is a valid point. Wouldn't a thread publicly calling them out in a forum of this size/focus be sufficient cause to take notice?

I have said this many times, and am often poo-pooed for it, but I'll lay money I'm right. It takes years of good product and good service over hundreds of transactions to build up a rep like Fodera has.

But, if they think one credible negative thread here wouldn't have an impact on their bottom line in such a scenario as I described, they are sadly Jurassic in their view of the global marketplace.

I'm certainly not saying they should chime in here on this topic, but to say it is below their need to notice is laughable.

As one who probably has a Fodera in his future, I'll just say that the sleaziness of this transaction will have absolutely no effect on my willingness to buy a Fodera. While there apparently is some loose affiliation with this clown "Mike", I have no doubts about Vinnie and Joey's ethics and especially not about the quality of their basses. I don't disagree that this thread will decrease Fodera's stock in the eyes of some, but they'll still have no problem selling all the basses they make, and at the same high prices.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Okay. when you say the following:

Do you mean you think the story is true or do you mean there's good reason to assume it's true because somone involved hasn't come along and disputed it?

Considering you quoted it, it's odd that you didn't actually read it. Here ya go, with a new highlight:

"So let me get this straight... if this story is true AND SO FAR NO ONE INVOLVED HAS COME FORWARD TO DISPUTE IT (maybe no one at Fodera has heard about this thread yet), the "holes" are what exactly?"

In case you still don't get it, I don't know if it's true or not. IF it is...

hth

I did say "seem to" and also said "maybe not", but it's more an attempt to get at what you are saying, hypothetically speaking of course.

Sure, if you're going to pick and choose which words you're going to read, you can draw all sorts of conclusions. Definitely.

 

[Jazz Ad]

It's sometimes worth reminding members that TalkBass isn't the center of the World.
Most builders and bass players do business, get gigs and live their whole life without thinking about it even a single split second.
I don't see why anyone would come discussing the story here, original poster or parties involved.

 

[NickyBass]

I don't disagree that this thread will decrease Fodera's stock in the eyes of some, but they'll still have no problem selling all the basses they make, and at the same high prices.

I think some people go out of their way to find reasons to dislike Fodera--based soley on the high ticket price.

I don't know if the story is accurate, but, aside from price and tone, this is the ONLY complaint that I've read about them as a company---and this situation wasn't even directly involving Vinnie or Joey. I doubt that they would risk tarnishing their reputaion for a few grand.

I wouldn't own a Fodera because it's not my tone, but I do think they are making a wonderful instrument.

 

[bigfatbass]

I sure don't consider TB to be the center of anything, but I've seen more than one "X company/dealer completely screwed me!" thread get attention from the biz in question, and I think with good reason. Word of mouth is everything, doesn't matter where the seed starts. Yeah, Fodera would still sell all they can build, but do you want to be thought of as Ken Smith, or Roger Sadowsky? From all accounts the Fodera gang are aces and I think they'd care if there was discussion calling them crooks.

But as I said, Fodera has no need to involve themselves in any of this because the dispute isn't with them. It's with the consignor and there is nothing in it for F to chime in.

At least not yet, that's for sure.

 

[Bass Boy]

Yeah, Fodera would still sell all they can build, but do you want to be thought of as Ken Smith, or Roger Sadowsky?

?

 

[lamarjones]

?

I assume Smith is the con and Sadowsky is the pro.

However, I HIGHLY doubt Smith has taken a hit at all on some of his more interesting choice of words. I think THAT mentalitly is limited to TB, which is why I don't really agree with that whole notion in the first place.

 

[Guest043]

i havent read any of the posts on this thread (cause its 8 pages long..) but i did read the whole story.

i used to have much respect for fodera as a whole..not so much anymore.

 

[Bass Boy]

I assume Smith is the con and Sadowsky is the pro.

However, I HIGHLY doubt Smith has taken a hit at all on some of his more interesting choice of words. I think THAT mentalitly is limited to TB, which is why I don't really agree with that whole notion in the first place.

Cool, that's what I thought he meant but wanted to be sure.

 

[CelinderMotoMan]

i havent read any of the posts on this thread (cause its 8 pages long..) but i did read the whole story.

i used to have much respect for fodera as a whole..not so much anymore.

This is proof of the point that I was trying to make.
One side of the story taken as truth, without even knowing the parties envolved, but Foderas reputation is still taking the hit (and without reading the whole thread I might add. WOW)

 

[tkozal]

Well, this is all public for all to see. One can only see that the OP says he has not been contacted by Fodera, nor have they done anything here to address this.

thats called REALLY BAD PUBLICITY regardless of the actual issue. very bad PR. BAD BAD BAD. But obivously, they don't care, So fine. They can do whatever they want.