Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

[ric426]

I received a KXB500 as a partial trade for another amp a few months ago, but I liked my Walkabout better, so I sold it. Now I'm thinking about changing some things and you guys are making me regret parting with it. I've got a tube preamp pedal that I'm really liking and it sounds better going into a power amp than it does going into the effects return on the Walkabout. Now I'm looking around for a mini power amp or a mini amp that has an effects return or power amp input. That KXB might have worked for that, though I would have wanted to find a quieter fan for it.

 

[MarkA]

NAD: The BEST Amp I've Ever Heard!! Kustom KXB500 | Page 36 | TalkBass.com

Scroll down 9 or 10 posts and you'll see clips of the KXB, Walkabout, and F500 through the 112. A little further and you'll see a photo of the settings used on each amp.

The KXB clip, turns out, I posted in this thread some months back. Don't know about the others, but thought it might be worth hearing them together for comparison.

 

[Dee-man]

Just had a practice/jam with a loud drummer and 2 loud-ish guitards. Used the MAS110 sub (the one designed for the MAS45) under a F112 cab. The sub continues to impress me with how much low end punch and clarity it delivers! Beefs up any cab and is a breeze to transport. Thanks Mike (wherever you are)!

 

[tombowlus]

I have had my 66/110 rig set up at my regular practice room for several months now, and I get to play a lot of different heads through it. What amazes me is how well this setup responds to widely different heads. I had been using the Mesa/Boogie Subway D-800 prototype for some time, and it really sounds great. Last night, I tried the new 50-watt tube PF-50T, and I gotta tell you, folks, it killed! Much louder than I expected from "just" 50 tube watts.

 

[MarkA]

Wow, that head, on top of that cab, looks so Evil Robot - in the best way possible. Xylon spaceship. I've noticed that EQ changes are very evident through the 46 - the Flex and 112 too, for that matter.

 

[MarkA]

And that red-and-black is pretty cool. Makes me wonder if I was too cautious with my all-black... but I dig that, too, even if it's less in-your-face.

And my bass is red - all black was a good choice.

 

[Dee-man]

Sorry to digress from that awesome Darth Vadar rig TB has, but I was wondering if anyone knows what the sensitivity is of the MAS110 sub (the one designed to pair with the MAS45)? I can't find any info on that on MA's site. Thanks, DM

 

[MarkA]

Sorry to digress from that awesome Darth Vadar rig TB has, but I was wondering if anyone knows what the sensitivity is of the MAS110 sub is (the one designed to pair with the MAS45)? I can't find any info on that on MA's site. Thanks, DM

Hunh. I don't know. There are a couple of roundabout ways I could guesstimate (emphasis on the "guess" part), but this really would be a question for Mike.

 

[mntngrown]

So this is not intended to dis any iconic rigs but merely to point out a lead guitarist's perception of my little 46 powered by the Kustom kxb500, 2 weeks apart from a full 8x10 plus 300 watt tube head weighing more than a hundred pounds in the same medium room.
The history was my blues band asking my friend guitarist and collaborator to step in and play lead guitar, and our go to harp master and our go to keys guy too. The reason we got my sometime lead guitar buddy, who I fill in on bass once in awhile, to step in, is my band's lead has fret hand problems due to neck damage/issues. Gig was scheduled, and I, and keys guy wanted to play it. We had a great time with the club owner coming up and slapping me on the back and telling me the sound mix was perfect. (46 powered by kxb 500)
Hang in with me here as there is a point I am getting to, but I can't cut to the chase LOL. About a week later I get an e-mail from a band leader telling me he is looking for another band to share a gig at the same club as he has half a show worth of content as his keys guy quit who sang lead on half their songs. He simply went to the club's facebook and solicited recent bands to share the gig. I turned my friend onto the share gig. I went. The arrangement turned out to be the band with the gig putting up the bass amp (iconic 8x10 300 watt) and my friends band playing on their bass rig and drum kit. (sorry I am getting there). So after my lead guitar friend's band opened,(where he asked me to give input on the sound mix) and I told him the bass needed to turn down, (imagine that), the band that secured the gig played and I had a beer with the opening act. The guitar friend asked me what I thought of the bass rig as we were listening to the band that owned it. We agreed it was muddy and boomy and and not clear or distinct. He told me my rig a few weeks before was much better. (46 and kxb500).
That is all Not a double blind study with a control. LOL

 

[MarkA]

So this is not intended to dis any iconic rigs but merely to point out a lead guitarist's perception of my little 46 powered by the Kustom kxb500, 2 weeks apart from a full 8x10 plus 300 watt tube head weighing more than a hundred pounds in the same medium room.
The history was my blues band asking my friend guitarist and collaborator to step in and play lead guitar, and our go to harp master and our go to keys guy too. The reason we got my sometime lead guitar buddy, who I fill in on bass once in awhile, to step in, is my band's lead has fret hand problems due to neck damage/issues. Gig was scheduled, and I, and keys guy wanted to play it. We had a great time with the club owner coming up and slapping me on the back and telling me the sound mix was perfect. (46 powered by kxb 500)
Hang in with me here as there is a point I am getting to, but I can't cut to the chase LOL. About a week later I get an e-mail from a band leader telling me he is looking for another band to share a gig at the same club as he has half a show worth of content as his keys guy quit who sang lead on half their songs. He simply went to the club's facebook and solicited recent bands to share the gig. I turned my friend onto the share gig. I went. The arrangement turned out to be the band with the gig putting up the bass amp (iconic 8x10 300 watt) and my friends band playing on their bass rig and drum kit. (sorry I am getting there). So after my lead guitar friend's band opened,(where he asked me to give input on the sound mix) and I told him the bass needed to turn down, (imagine that), the band that secured the gig played and I had a beer with the opening act. The guitar friend asked me what I thought of the bass rig as we were listening to the band that owned it. We agreed it was muddy and boomy and and not clear or distinct. He told me my rig a few weeks before was much better. (46 and kxb500).
That is all Not a double blind study with a control. LOL

Cool! And good to hear from you. I've found that I can hear Mike's cabs more clearly, onstage and in the house, than any others I've tried. 112 is especially good if you have to stand right on top of it (upward angled mids and tweet).

Still think you should try the KXB through either of your big cabs (Flex or 48).

Btw, I nevet tried a 48, but first time I checked out the Big E cabs my fave was a 28 - half your cab, but with different drivers (Faitals - didn't go as low as yours). I'm curious how the 48 compares to the Flex, to your ears. To me, the Flex is the ultimate funk machine (loved the KXB with it for that - I think if Rocco Prestia played that rig it would cause a riot), but I know you're partial to the 48, so curious as to your thoughts.

 

[mntngrown]

Well the first thing I will reiterate my friend, is I am a simple pocket player, who loves the blues, but of course can't resist great funk and R and B too. Duane told people to listen to King Curtis live at the Fillmore East and shows like that,(Memphis Soul Stew) anybody? and Carl Radle on the original Layla album, and of course Tommy Shannon on all SRV and Johnny B Gayden on every Iceman gig are what I groove with. But my choices with these cabs are not as empirical and scientific as your great breakdowns, and I truly appreciate your input here! I get sporadic gigs so can not do specific double blind studies as to what is the best. My limited take em out to the real world of gigging is dependent on what I anticipate the need is vs the output. When I play out I rarely plug into the PA. I want a bass cab that can hang with the venue. (I built a 1515/66) since donated to a school. The 48 is a monster outdoor no PA needed hammer for an old school hack like me. But Mike would probably tell you one of his 12's or two could do the same. So I have an outdoor gig I have played annually for a few years no PA. Fearfull 2x15 carried it fine with the streamliner 900. Then the 4x8 did it great with the svt7pro. Next year the 2x10flex with the streamliner dissappointed me and the lead guitar/singer who actually hangs on my playing more than any bass guy could ever hope for. The SVT7 pro crapped out as they are prone to do. So my limited playing scenarios limit my ability to say anything about any specific cab Mike makes. I just know the 46 is golden in the small to medium clubs and the 48 is a hammer that can replace a 1515/66 outdoors, and the 210 flex is waiting for more opportunities to impress me with the superbassman 300 or the Kustom 500.
Forgot to mention the 48 powered by the Fender Superbassman 300 in an acoustically cruched and designed venue was complimented by the other bands playing that night. All a bunch of HooDoo if you are are happy with your generic 4x10. I am not, but some guy who is may get way more gigs than me. It's all context.

 

[MarkA]

Hey, don't discount a good pocket. One of the more memorable nice things anyone ever said about me as a bass player was when a drummer I respect introduced me to some friends of his and the first thing he did was complement my "pocket"!

As for empirical breakdowns, yeah, I'll geek out, but feel and tone are the big things - pretty much everything comes down to how those manifest in different situations. I am not a regularly gigging pro - on bass, I'd consider myself a dedicated amateur who gigs when life, work, and energy levels allow. Then there is the confluence of those with opportunity - there's a pithy saying or two in there somewhere, I'm sure. .

 

[lelandcrooks]

Sorry to digress from that awesome Darth Vadar rig TB has, but I was wondering if anyone knows what the sensitivity is of the MAS110 sub is (the one designed to pair with the MAS45)? I can't find any info on that on MA's site. Thanks, DM

This is a point of research. We are still figuring out how to measure sensitivity. Or more correctly, how to report it. Because the output of the horn flares does not really kick in until you reach a certain power level, the standard 1w1m is useless. So if we measure at 100w10m, which is probably closer to correct, you cannot extrapolate from there, up or down. The other effects of the MVW alignment make sensitivity a complex measurement. Most notably the nearfield/farfield effect which we call the event horizon.

 

[Dee-man]

Thanks, Leland. Didn't realize I had opened up a can of worms, so to speak. Just wondering how it would pair with a 110 with a stated 95db sensitivity. I'm guessing just fine, but wanted to check first since I've read that mating cabs with different sensitivities can create imbalance. MarkA, feel free to toss out a ballpark if you have the time and inclination. Thanks, DM

 

[Dee-man]

Well, Mike answered me in a pm (and could follow-up that way, if I understood correctly) and said the MAS110 sub (for the MAS45) is around 95 to 96 db spl, which will be just what I need! Again, I've already paired the sub with a Fearless F112 and it sounded great. Will try it with a Audiokinesis TC112 one of these days, but I have v.1, which is 4 ohms (the sub is 8 ohms). Thanks again TB.

 

[MarkA]

Well, Mike answered me in a pm (and could follow-up that way, if I understood correctly) and said the MAS110 sub (for the MAS45) is around 95 to 96 db spl, which will be just what I need! Again, I've already paired the sub with a Fearless F112 and it sounded great. Will try it with a Audiokinesis TC112 one of these days, but I have v.1, which is 4 ohms (the sub is 8 ohms). Thanks again TB.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Someone in the Audiokinesis thread tried the sub (not sure which version -wasn't you, was it?) with one of Duke's cabs awhile back.

Glad you were able to get the info from the horse's mouth.

 

[lelandcrooks]

Well, Mike answered me in a pm

Glad you got an answer. Mike has obviously settled on some numbers. I can't yet. The PA world wants a hard number.

 

[coyoteboy]

So, why couldnt one add additional sensitivity ratings beyond the standard? If they're verifiable, it would help illustrate whats going on with the vortexitude.

 

[Dee-man]

I do't' think it was me, Mark, but my memory ain't what it used to be. I'll fire it up one of these days. Lucky me, I have a Puma 1000 (which has separate channel volume knobs in the back of the amp, on top of gain/master in the front) so I can adjust the output of each channel to try to account for the impedance difference between the cabs.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Efficiency rating can be challenging, and knowing how useful they are is a bit of subjective interpretation, especially when comparing cab x against cab y.

For example, at the 1W standard, a particular frequency range may be down several dBs in SPL, making that cab appear weaker in that range when comparing cab x to cab y. But with lots and lots of watts, perhaps that same cab being measured now shows that particular frequency range as actually being even with the rest of the frequencies.

I understand the issue with PA guys needing good numbers. If they are engineering a system to do a specific task, having varying or unpredictable SPLs in certain frequency ranges may be problematic in designing and operating a proper PA system. Big money is at stake in a system involving multiple power amps, lots of cabs, etc.