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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

Since I doubt if anyone out there has two MAS109 (latest version), this might be a question for Mike Arnopol: would it wonk up the projected soundfield if you stacked a horizontal MAS109 on top of a vertical MAS109 (i.e. a T shaped stack)?
I was wondering how a pair would sound stacked with both horizontal sitting on a 1ft stand, then looking at nostatic's cab, I just thought (stability aside) this might provide some unique space coverage.
 
Believe I can answer this, at least from the perspective of what it does to the sound field. It will narrow the dispersion. Bass is omnidirectional, until you do this. You can create a steerable field. At a show we had 15's vertical next to 18's horizontal. Dispersion narrowed to about 120-140 degrees. Ultimate power alley. Outside the alley it dropped like a stone. I didn't have a meter, but it had to be 8-10db. We could aim the field by just aiming the cabs.

Completely accidental discovery.
 
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I was lucky enough to be at Mike's right before he shipped two MAS 109s. We had to try both together in a bunch of configurations. The bottom and sound pressure from two of these things is unreal. We were using the Sonic Farm pre. into 1200 watt ice module based amp. Both vertical on the floor was insane, very slightly clearer than both horizontal, but both on the floor in either configuration were a little too bottom heavy for me. Both raised up and tilted back made them sound clearer and with more definition. A wonderful sound, still with crushing bottom. One on top of the other vertically was my favorite sound, slightly clearer and punchier than the other configurations and while we were in a small room, it seemed to have the best dispersion and projection. Just for fun we tried a T. It seemed to sound about half way between the vertical stack and both on the floor horizontally, slightly less clear and punchy than both elevated and tilted back. They still had the same excellent dispersion of all MVW cabs and no weirdness or cancelation. I've heard that if you line up the front edge of any of the cabs, you can mix and match them in most any configuration with no ill effects. One of the MS 109s is amazing, I think it would give a good 2x12 a run for it's money, but with more low bottom. Two together is nuts. I can't imagine any situation where they wouldn't suffice.
 
As soon as my budget recovers from a few purchases I think a second MAS109 will be happening. The one I have now will be a perfect "sub" (since it has the low-pass built-in), and when running both I'd run one on top of the other. I've also run the single MAS109 on a Gramma but I haven't done a lot of comparison with and without yet.

I love vertical stacks...
 
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My new micro rig. Swapped out the Flex for the new 109! I'm totally blown away by this little guy! Since I'm doing mostly solo gigs or small clubs right now, this just made more sense. And in the future I will be buying another one of these to accompany it for the big gigs! Such a cool cabinet.
 
Enjoy! Yep, for a lot of folks the MAS 112 can be the Holy Grail one-cab solution.

Hey, I'm new to the D-800, myself. We could trade notes on the D-800 into an MAS 112... I'm liking the EQ close to flat, the deep off, and the voicing around 9:00. You?
 
I was lucky enough to be at Mike's right before he shipped two MAS 109s. We had to try both together in a bunch of configurations. The bottom and sound pressure from two of these things is unreal. We were using the Sonic Farm pre. into 1200 watt ice module based amp. Both vertical on the floor was insane, very slightly clearer than both horizontal, but both on the floor in either configuration were a little too bottom heavy for me. Both raised up and tilted back made them sound clearer and with more definition. A wonderful sound, still with crushing bottom. One on top of the other vertically was my favorite sound, slightly clearer and punchier than the other configurations and while we were in a small room, it seemed to have the best dispersion and projection. Just for fun we tried a T. It seemed to sound about half way between the vertical stack and both on the floor horizontally, slightly less clear and punchy than both elevated and tilted back. They still had the same excellent dispersion of all MVW cabs and no weirdness or cancelation. I've heard that if you line up the front edge of any of the cabs, you can mix and match them in most any configuration with no ill effects. One of the MS 109s is amazing, I think it would give a good 2x12 a run for it's money, but with more low bottom. Two together is nuts. I can't imagine any situation where they wouldn't suffice.
Wow! That would have been a fun session.
I'm a bit surprised about the response of the vertical pair having better dispersion - makes sense with conventional cabs.
I suspect Mike has done some enclosure tweaking on the vertical cabs to help with horizontal dispersion.
 
Second gig in the infamous "problem room." Different drummer tonight - much heavier player even though he's mostly a straight jazz guy. Same result as last time with the MAS109 - zero boom. Drummer agreed, and it was great to be able to hear much better what was going on. Especially when three women (two of which were smoking hot), showed up to "sing." Adventures in being the house bass player...

The MAS109 is the real deal. A second one will be forthcoming. Still keeping the one Hathor 1203, but the TC112 will be up for grabs.
 
@nostatic (at all...) - what are your thoughts on the MAS-109 vs. the MAS 112's (of any flavor)

On my end, hosted the monthly jam night at Joe's Bar. Again, 4 bass players (including me) so I got to listen from the audience for a few tunes.
One of the things that really slays me about the Flex is how much the notes "pop" when someone is playing a tight fingerstyle groove. Very 'plosive, if that's a word.
 
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I'll try asking again.
Can anyone describe the differences (form factor and sound) between the MAS 112 (of whatever flaver) and the MAS 109?
I'm curious about this myself -- I can't comment on the 112 vs. the 109 from direct experience, but the gist I got, from talking with Mike, is that it might lie somewhere between the 112 and the Flex in terms of the kind of "impact" it has. The Flex, as you know, has this crazy pop in fingerstyle -- rapid-fire hits you in the chest. The 112 (at least my 18 Sound 112, which is the only configuration I've tried) has a harder kick down low, but not as much pop in the chest. I got the impression that the new 109 would be somewhere in between, but that's my take on a convo I had with Mike a month ago. I wish he could chime in here to clear it up.

@radbass might have some impressions. If I get to try one -- not sure when I'll be up that way next, but I've mentioned to Mike that I'd like to try that cab and the newest 112 with the custom Eminence driver -- I will report back.
 
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Yes. Mods can set what rules they will - their site. But I don't see the sense in allowing other commercial cabinet makers to tout their wares but not Mike.
I've refrained from addressing this publicly until now for various reasons. We welcome manufacturers participating on TalkBass, but they need to abide by a set of rules called the 'Commercial User Policy'. While Supporting Memberships help a great deal with the costs of running the site, they don't cover the whole nut. The rest comes from advertising, whether generic ads or targeted ads from musical equipment manufacturers, plus sponsored forums. The reason for the Commercial User Policy is because unrestricted posting by Commercial Users leads to paying advertisers asking "why am I paying for what I could get for free?". Without them, the site doesn't exist in this form.

So, we let CU's answer questions posed by members and they can respond in kind. They can't post promo material or unsolicited product announcements because that falls into that 'free advertising' category that leads to loss of ad revenue. The CU benefits at zero cost while TB suffers.

It's understood that first couple of times a CU might not be familiar with the rules or not 100% clear on the interpretation, so we cut them slack to start with - especially on borderline content. But at some point there have to start being consequences for breaking the CUP, just as there are consequences for regular users breaking rules like profanity, disrespect etc. As those repeat, they eventually lead to temporary bans (several) before a permanent site ban. Mike reached the point way beyond a permanent ban would have been in order, as has happened for other CU's. In previous vBulletin forum software, site ban was only real option. With the new software, there is the possibility of blocking specific members from specific threads. Faced with site ban or thread ban we took this thread ban route with Mike because he has a lot of knowledge to offer the community, and you can see he has continued to share that knowledge in other threads. He is also still free to read this thread and PM any members with questions. We felt this was a better option for everyone than site ban.

So, that's the reasoning I used - I was the one who implemented this after discussing with other mods / admins. You can disagree with our choice, that's your right. I'm happy to clarify anything that was unclear here as long as it doesn't get into Rule #5 territory.

If you see CU's breaking the CUP 'touting their wares' please use the report post button next to offending posts and we will investigate. Please don't think of it as being a narc, think of it as helping to maintain a level playing field. There are thousands of posts on TB per day, mods can't read them all so we rely a great deal on reported content from users. This applies for all TB rules, not just the CUP.

I know the answer to the above, but I will refrain from posting it here. Mike may share it if u call and chat with him personally.
I'm pretty sure I know what Mike will tell you is the reason, because he's told a number of people the same thing who have then told it to me enough times to me for me to have this certainty. He has told people we were under pressure from specific manufacturers, positioning it as a 'big guy vs little guy' thing. He's wrong. The reason is 100% what I just described above, enforcement of the commercial user policy, anything else is supposition with no factual backing. The mods couldn't tell you who the paying advertisers are, I couldn't either most of the time - we deliberately keep it that way to avoid possibility of that type of scenario, whether consciously or unconsciously.
 
I'll try asking again.
Can anyone describe the differences (form factor and sound) between the MAS 112 (of whatever flaver) and the MAS 109?

For me, the MAS109 is an easy carry at 34#. The MAS112 I believe is close to 50 (?) and has the option of rollers, which is a no-go in my book because of how I haul my gear, etc.

Given the comparison between MAS109 and H1203 (different beasts to be sure, but you can get some of the flavor of the 12 vs 10), my feeling is that the 12 will go a bit lower and be a bit more open while the 10 is more focused. But I haven't played an MAS112 or a Flex - closest to that was 46/110 combo.
 
Thanks, Nostatic.
I really do NOT need GAS for another, lighter, easier-schlepp cabinet. Especially after seeing Mntngrown's surprising hassles selling a Flex in the bay area.
I DO not need more GAS, I DO not need more GAS, I DO I DO I DO...
 
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