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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

Indeed, Mark, back OT! Based on what I experienced at Reading, the 112 does really well as a standalone - the 18 sound has pretty good sensitivity along with a fairly low impedance for an 8 ohm driver which helps wring some additional juice out of the amp. I would think it would do well with any of the micros that are rated in the 350 watt range at 8 ohms which gives a lot of options and makes for a very capable yet reasonably light and compact rig.
 
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When I picked up my cab, I briefly tried my HBP-800D through its internal power section, then the 1000W Ice module (in the form of JGR's 1000W Ice-module based power-amp), then the 700W Ice (in the form of a box that Mike and Radbass put together). Given that I don't know what, if any, signal-shaping/circuitry is in the HBP between the preamp and power section and that there might be differences between the two "Iceboxes" aside from the module inside, the 700 also struck me as smoother and "less grainy" than the Demmie's internal power section. Nice extension up top, tight and clean down low. The 1000W Ice felt a little less present up top than the 700W, but the low end had more heft and authority. I didn't max out the volume on any of these amps (though I did get loud enough earlier to draw the attention of a neighbor -- sorry, Mike. Sorry, neighbor.), so I don't know how they'd behave at their limits (or where the limits of the 700 would fall vs. the 800), but, with the Demmie as a front end, the 700 was my favorite, followed closely by the 1000, followed by its own internal power. I also tried running Monique through the Iceboxes and through the effects return on the Demmie. With Monique in front, the HBP-as-poweramp was my favorite overall (the little bit of grain/texture enhances the top-end presence of Monique, IMO, and the Presence control on the HBP, if you want to use it, is voiced to work very well with the smooth Monique), followed by the 700, followed by the 1000.

Both the 700 and the 1000 felt cleaner, quicker, and had a more cohesive attack in the lowest register than the 800 in the Demmie. That said, the Demmie is no slouch as is, and kicks harder than the vast majority of class D heads I've heard.

I've never had a CA-9, so can't compare there. Closest I've come is my GBE 1200. The 700 doesn't have the heft/slam of the GBE. I won't venture a comparison between the GBE and the 1000 other than to say that they feel different, but both the 700 and 1000 felt more lead-sled-like -- more solid, more immediate, less harsh -- than other class D implementations I've tried.

With the Demmie, the 700 felt a little more balanced and extended (or maybe just present) up top than the 1000. That's not to say the 1000 can't reproduce a present and detailed top end -- I think I said earlier in this thread how much I dug JGR's Box O' Tone straight into his 1000W Icebox (no EQ), then into the 112 -- super lively, super detailed. That combo was very responsive, with no lack of extension and plenty going on up top.
This is a real premium lineup to feed that new MAS112. Does that switch to disengage the mid/hi drivers give that more vintage (topped out at 4k) feel? Also, how does the MAS112 compare to the MAS66 as a bass cab? I have the Gen-3 MAS66 which I use more for small PA duty (very nice in this service) but am considering an MAS-112 like yours with the okume back and full range 12-only switch. Is the low end fatter and fuller? Thanks.
 
Back with a gig report on my first use of the MAS112 in that problem room I mentioned in post 932. Best explanation for the lack of punch seems to be a combination of the room's ambience (every surface is reflective) and boundary cancellation (see post 942) from the dimensions. I've tried several different cabs in there (all with a Metro Will Lee 5 into an Aggie TH500), and never been able to get a tight, muscular tone there.

You guessed it: not until now. All the usual virtues (precise articulation, even response, pleasing dispersion), _and_ this time the punch I've been missing when we worked there.

Bada-bing, bada-boom. Dis cab is da shizzle!
 
This is a real premium lineup to feed that new MAS112. Does that switch to disengage the mid/hi drivers give that more vintage (topped out at 4k) feel? Also, how does the MAS112 compare to the MAS66 as a bass cab? I have the Gen-3 MAS66 which I use more for small PA duty (very nice in this service) but am considering an MAS-112 like yours with the okume back and full range 12-only switch. Is the low end fatter and fuller? Thanks.

In my experience the8 ohm 112 is leaner and more muscular than the 66. Not a thin sounding cab---just not warm and romantic---which is more of the 66 voicing to me. The 4 ohm 112 (or 8 ohms with the Faital 8--I've tried them both) is fatter and fuller than the 66. The 66 has a bit more upper bass bumpage but the Faital-loaded 112's have more muscle and control.
 
In regards to the 700 module----played back and forth between the 700 and 1000. Reluctantly my nod goes to the 1000. The 700 has a small bit better fidelity, but the 1000 has much better low end power and control. I'll take the extra 2# and a couple of extra inches hit of the 1000. For upright and loud but not crazy loud gigs I'll probably take the 700.

The 1000 is the first time I didn't feel a 50# A/B amp a necessity. The 250 is very good sounding--very functional for a minute digital amp--no apologies necessary. The 700 is a better sounding digital amp. The 1000 doesn't sound like a digital amp.
 
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This is a real premium lineup to feed that new MAS112. Does that switch to disengage the mid/hi drivers give that more vintage (topped out at 4k) feel? Also, how does the MAS112 compare to the MAS66 as a bass cab? I have the Gen-3 MAS66 which I use more for small PA duty (very nice in this service) but am considering an MAS-112 like yours with the okume back and full range 12-only switch. Is the low end fatter and fuller? Thanks.

Yeah -- the Iceboxes (sorry, that word just seems apt for the poweramps) aren't mine, but the HBP, Monique, and the big Genz are. I'm a little embarrassed, actually, at the extravagence.

Re. the 112 vs. the 66, I've been holding off on saying much more until I can play it out a few times with groups in different rooms -- as busy as work is now, that might be a little while. Also, my 66 was a 2nd generation. I did get to play the 66 out several times, including several times at a loud jam in an acoustically weird bar and once at a small outdoor festival. I haven't played the 4 Ohm, Eminence-loaded 112. Those caveats in mind, here are my impressions:

My 66 was smooth and deep, with a relaxed midrange and a clear top end. Super-groovy for R&B and hip-hop, though certainly not limited to those genres. Did fine at lower volumes, but, the more power I hit it with, the happier it seemed. Didn't compress like some cabs, but just got more open and articulate up to the limits of my Markbass F500 (It was even better with the HBP). I played the outdoor gig with the F500 and that cab just slew in that context. That said, it never quite felt like "me" -- I like a present midrange with a lot of texture, maybe a bit of grind. I don't mind hearing the windings on the strings, now and then. Playing it solo in practice, the 112 comes closer to the mark for me in terms of tone and feel than any other cab so far. Mids are more present and detailed than they were with my 66. Bottom extends deep, but feels tighter and more controlled to me. Slap is special -- a great feeling of bounce. The 66 had a "little kick drum" feel when it got going. The 112 has a slightly bigger kick drum, tuned a little higher, and it seems to kick in a bit earlier. The low end is full, but doesn't strike me as "fat" if that makes sense.

The switch -- the 12" on its own goes surprisingly high. If I want to cop a Jamerson tone (never mind that the rest of my gear is different), I'll need to use a sponge, palm-mute, and/or roll off the passive tone on my bass. That said, I think it's a useful option and could see it killing on a rock gig with an SVT. Even does some respectable, old-school slap tones on its own. That said, I'm glad the mids are there. They add a lot of detail. The tweeter -- I'm actually leaving it engaged more often than not. Didn't think that would be the case. Not necessary, but it adds something nice, and integrates with the other drivers better than any other tweet I've heard in a bass cab. Mike tweaked the switch package formerly known as "the MarkA Switch Package" (he had to -- my lawyers were beating down his door for back-royalties) by making the mids and tweeter independently switchable, so you can run just the woof and the tweets, which is surprisingly useable. Still better integrated than a lot of 2-way bass cabs. Not what I'd go for normally, but another viable voicing.

I could ramble on more, but I've really got to get the cab out -- if I still had my 66, I'd A/B them live. That'd be fun.

If the 4 Ohm 112 has a bigger bottom than the 66... that's a big bottom.

One more thing, if it helps -- again, this is just based, so far, on solo practice, but I felt the 112 a better match, for my tastes, for Monique, than my 66 was. The tighter, more mid-present voicing of the 112 is a nice yin/yang with the wide, smooth voice of Monique. YMMV and all that.
 
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Back with a gig report on my first use of the MAS112 in that problem room I mentioned in post 932. Best explanation for the lack of punch seems to be a combination of the room's ambience (every surface is reflective) and boundary cancellation (see post 942) from the dimensions. I've tried several different cabs in there (all with a Metro Will Lee 5 into an Aggie TH500), and never been able to get a tight, muscular tone there.

You guessed it: not until now. All the usual virtues (precise articulation, even response, pleasing dispersion), _and_ this time the punch I've been missing when we worked there.

Bada-bing, bada-boom. Dis cab is da shizzle!

The manipulated vortex conquers another acoustic nightmare. :cool:
 
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Sorry, didn't mean it that way! There is a lot of amp-curiosity in this thread, mine included, and I always find your posts to be cogent and on-point. You just provided a natural segue into a topic I'm curious about.
Indeed, Mark, back OT! Based on what I experienced at Reading, the 112 does really well as a standalone - the 18 sound has pretty good sensitivity along with a fairly low impedance for an 8 ohm driver which helps wring some additional juice out of the amp. I would think it would do well with any of the micros that are rated in the 350 watt range at 8 ohms which gives a lot of options and makes for a very capable yet reasonably light and compact rig.
 
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I know the 112 is the focus of this thread right now, but I thought I would chime in on the 46, and Streamliner combo too. Last night I showed for the "can you fill in" type call from a local guitar talent. Bar gig, and moderate volume Robben Ford and other blues spectrum songs. The little 46 can fill a medium room that is long and narrow. Still amazed how the E sounds full and rich with those 4 little 6'ers. Easy schlep. Can't wait to hear a local stepping up and playing out with a 112 though.
 
I know the 112 is the focus of this thread right now, but I thought I would chime in on the 46, and Streamliner combo too. Last night I showed for the "can you fill in" type call from a local guitar talent. Bar gig, and moderate volume Robben Ford and other blues spectrum songs. The little 46 can fill a medium room that is long and narrow. Still amazed how the E sounds full and rich with those 4 little 6'ers. Easy schlep. Can't wait to hear a local stepping up and playing out with a 112 though.

This makes me happy! I am awaiting a 4/6 with a 2/6 for a more modular set up. Still not sure of the amp yet, now i have a GK MBFusion 500 that i think is not gonna cut it. Possible power amp / preamp pedal combo.

Not sure.Any suggestions?
 
It isn't a digital amp.
Yeah---I know. How do you describe a class D amp? I know that the power supply is "switching" The power section is also switching, isn't it? Would it be better just to say "class d"? What were the class h amps? (Charlie is usually the smartest guy in the room) (any room)
 
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Yeah---I know. How do you describe a class D amp? I know that the power supply is "switching" The power section is also switching, isn't it? Would it be better just to say "class d"? What were the class h amps? (Charlie is usually the smartest guy in the room) (any room)

Take a read through Bobby Bld's excellent thread: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/class-d-illustrated-lots-of-pics.1083366/

My takeway is that, as with other topologies, the debbil's in the details. There are even Class D "lead sleds" with big toroid power transformers and non-switch mode power supply config, the old Crown K series for example. I think most of us get what you're saying, that the 1000ASP doesn't have some of the perceived downsides of the real microamps and the somewhat larger integrated amps using the same modules that the micros do. My own experience agrees with that, FWIW. I love that you're really taking a shot at changing one thing at a time and seeing how the differences pan out BTW.

Class G and Class H are essentially A/B with a two-tiered power supply that boost the rail voltages as needed for peak demands. Since a switch of some kind is one way to get there, I think a few companies have called that digital too.
 
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