Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

[J.Wolf]

I wish I was as impressed with the PLX as the CA, it sure would make my schlep easier. Unfortunately the proof has been in the pudding for me, and the good pudding is heavy.

Certainly a high power PLX will best the Puma 900 power section, but the ICE1000 would give all of the high power rack amps a run for their money.

 

[Ewo]

Say, there's an MA amp in the works, yeah?

 

[lelandcrooks]

Self powered everything is in the works. It just takes money and time. We've all got time.

 

[Ewo]

Yup, constraints on R & D.

But someplace I got the idea there was an integrated amp in development (or experimentation, anyway) The big ICE module with a Sonic Farm pre in front of it..?

 

[ahc]

Yup, constraints on R & D.

But someplace I got the idea there was an integrated amp in development (or experimentation, anyway) The big ICE module with a Sonic Farm pre in front of it..?

That would be this:

Sonic Farm/MAS Bass Amp project.

And in the last few pages of this:

Sonic Farm 2di4

 

[Ewo]

Yup. Thanks!

 

[Proton Lenny]

Thanks again, mntngrown, for setting up the GTG. Just to give a little more feedback:

We compared the 210 flex mod sub vs the "regular" 110 sub that pairs with the 45. Not too surprisingly, the 46/210 sub was clear and balanced through the range, with a fullness and extra lowend heft as compared to just the 46 by itself.

The 46/regular sub (both cabs direct from amp) was bassier - a high bass/low mid hump as Mike correctly predicted here a couple months ago. BUT, to my ears, that extra bassiness gave a nice extra blast of oomph and punch without losing overall clarity. Different flavors.

Then we compared the 46/regular sub with the 46 daisy-chained from the regular sub with the sub's cross-over engaged (this cross-over switch sends the lows to the sub and anything above, say, 100 Hz, goes to the 46, and it's set at a lower crossover frequency than the 210 flex mod sub, for those who haven't been keeping up on this). I think we were all pretty surprised how similar it sounded to the 46/210 sub - again, balanced but with extra authority compared to the 46 alone. Not bad.

So, to my ears at least, the regular sub offers a couple of choices with the 46 which would probably be nice for all but the best-eared among us who want perfect balance between cabs/drivers. But I really like what either sub does for the 46 for those looking for a little more volume and authority from a single 46. Again, different flavors.

Thanks, DM

So I've been discussing this with Mike. Trying to get a handle on what exactly the differences sonically would be. I have a Flex 210 mod sitting at my house right now, and it sounds great! However the 10 pounds less and slightly smaller 46 as a top is really tempting, so much so that I'm thinking about swapping. Curious if the 46+110 sub has that strong low mid punch that the 210 flex has? Anybody with experience with both of these setups can chime in on any descriptions you may have. Mike says that he likes the 46 more as a stand alone cab more than the flex 210 mod top. He also says that the 46+110 sub is his favorite combo. But he thought the 46+110 might be a little dark in the mids for some of the chordal work and a heavy effects work that I do. Yet again, the ease of carrying the 46 vs the Flex 210 top is almost enough to make me go for it. I figure I could EQ them to be very similar sonically.

 

[mntngrown]

I was about to weigh in till you discussed what you do musically. Maybe wrp who plays 6 string Foderas and chords some cool jazz music might comment. He was at the gtg I would listen to Mike. He of course, if you don't already know, is a top notch player who toured internationally. I think you would love your flex mod sub with a 46. but my heroes are Johnny B Gayden, Tommy Shannon etc. I have never played a chord unless it was by accident.lol A reminder as I have understood Mikes comments. the 46 goes lower than most. Adding a flex mod sub increases the punch in mids or low mids? I could be happy with two 46's bring one or two depending on the gig size. I am just 4 strings with flats blues/boogie guy. Kesslari loves his 210 flex mod and is a fretless player across multiple genres. Mike is the sounding board on the phone ultimately.

 

[mntngrown]

So I was impressed with the bassy sound of deeman's 46 atop the lower crossed over sub built for 45's? upright etc, and would choose that if I was reggae world beat. For my sweet spot I liked kesslaris flex mod 10 sub under my 46. Hope this helps.

 

[J.Wolf]

Being one who owns a Flex 210 mod and having heard the 66+110, I can offer some insight as to what the perceived differences would be between the flex210 and the 46+110.

My impression is that while the 46 goes lower, the flex top offers more usable low end 'slam' at gig volume. The flex top has this kick drum kind of upper bass response. It's fairly addictive for staccato playing, each note seems front loaded with some 'good god y'all' impact. The 46/66 is more round and warm in the upper bass, so while it may 'go lower' it may not have the same level of mix cutting slam that the flex has, on the gig.

Keep in mind that all of this is fairly hair splitting. Both rigs sound great, but id say if you lean towards a more percussive, hit you in the chest bass response, the flex is the winner. If you want that warm, round, even bass response, and slightly fuller middle mids, the 46 would be perhaps better. I have been able to dial in pretty much whatever sound I need with my flex rig and an empress para eq. just my .02c

 

[Proton Lenny]

Being one who owns a Flex 210 mod and having heard the 66+110, I can offer some insight as to what the perceived differences would be between the flex210 and the 46+110.

My impression is that while the 46 goes lower, the flex top offers more usable low end 'slam' at gig volume. The flex top has this kick drum kind of upper bass response. It's fairly addictive for staccato playing, each note seems front loaded with some 'good god y'all' impact. The 46/66 is more round and warm in the upper bass, so while it may 'go lower' it may not have the same level of mix cutting slam that the flex has, on the gig.

Keep in mind that all of this is fairly hair splitting. Both rigs sound great, but id say if you lean towards a more percussive, hit you in the chest bass response, the flex is the winner. If you want that warm, round, even bass response, and slightly fuller middle mids, the 46 would be perhaps better. I have been able to dial in pretty much whatever sound I need with my flex rig and an empress para eq. just my .02c

This is what I was curious about, thanks. If I was running just my bass through my cabs I'd love to have that low end slam you talk of (which I do like from playing with my 210 flex). But I also do a bunch of looping, chordal work, soloing, and even run a Moog Sub 37 synth through my rig. So really balance is most important for me. And even more so, ease of transport is really crucial. This is really why I'm considering the 46. 10 pounds doens't seem like that much of a difference, but due to the smaller size and weight I could actually one hand the 46 making moving it at the sub a one trip load. And if the differences between these two setups is minimal sonically, I could get what I want via EQ I'm sure.

 

[J.Wolf]

I do a lot of looping, chordal textural stuff, and nothing comes close to my Flex cab. I havent tried that repertoire on the 66 or 46, and I'm sure it would do great. Just saying the Flex kills for detail and midrange texture. I think the 6 stuff does too, but with a different flavor.

Caveat: I haven't really tried the 46 enough to speak intelligently about it, my observations are based on the 66/110. I gather that the 46/110 and 66/110 would differ in how the top cab keeps up with the sub. So the net effect may be more different than just the difference between the two 6 loaded cabs, as how they integrate with the sub has a lot to do with the final result

 

[tombowlus]

I'm having some fun with my MAS cabs (in between other time-consuming projects). More to report, hopefully soon!

 

[J.Wolf]

Thats deadly Tom... I know how good that Demeter head sounds with the flex. I would love to try the Valkrye someday.

I'd be very curious to hear your rough assessment of how those two cab setups compare.

 

[J.Wolf]

I forgot I was going to post a crummy pic with some 2di4 > CA6 > MAS love.

 

[J.Wolf]

Just spotted this on the MAS FB page, looks sweet!! As someone who uses 1x10 cabs for hotel/restaurant/lounge gigs, this thing looks to be promising!!

MA16
One custom 6.5" Eminence and one 3" Faital mid/tweet.
13 1/2" deep by 14" wide by 8" tall.
12.5 lbs.
Keeps up with 10" driver cabs like the Wizzy 10.
Same low extension as all of the 6's.
Approx $500

 

[John D Harris]

This is what I was curious about, thanks. If I was running just my bass through my cabs I'd love to have that low end slam you talk of (which I do like from playing with my 210 flex). But I also do a bunch of looping, chordal work, soloing, and even run a Moog Sub 37 synth through my rig. So really balance is most important for me. And even more so, ease of transport is really crucial. This is really why I'm considering the 46. 10 pounds doens't seem like that much of a difference, but due to the smaller size and weight I could actually one hand the 46 making moving it at the sub a one trip load. And if the differences between these two setups is minimal sonically, I could get what I want via EQ I'm sure.

I'm not suggesting one over the other, but I think the 210 FlexMod would be about the same two-hand carry as the 46 + sub. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're looking for though.
As a one cab for smaller venue type approach, maybe you're thinking the 46 would work better for that for you than the 210 FlexMod top by itself. You might be right (I think I'd tend to lean that way), but after listening to J.Wolf wax regarding the 210 FlexMod, I get less convinced.
There's only so many hairs you can split though if you're balancing single cab use vs. a two cabs.
Forgive my ramblings...
I strongly suspect it would be hard to go wrong either way.

 

[kesslari]

I strongly suspect it would be hard to go wrong either way.

Yep. I have the 210 FlexMod. I've heard the 46+110 sub (both flavors).
The 46 is lighter, and as a "small gig rig" it has the lighter weight going for it.
But not enough to make me lust after replacing the top of my 210 FlexMod. And yeah, the incredible punch that the FlexMod top gives to tight staccato fingerstyle grooving is pure sex.

Oh, and FWIW, I miss Mike's contributions to this forum.

 

[MarkA]

Yep. I have the 210 FlexMod. I've heard the 46+110 sub (both flavors).
The 46 is lighter, and as a "small gig rig" it has the lighter weight going for it.
But not enough to make me lust after replacing the top of my 210 FlexMod. And yeah, the incredible punch that it gives to tight staccato fingerstyle grooving is pure sex.

Oh, and FWIW, I miss Mike's contributions to this forum.

I do, too. I've had to stop myself once or twice from addressing a question to him in this thread.

I've been wanting to say something (I hope something useful and insightful, but no guarantees) about the 46+Flex sub vs. 210 Flex mod. I picked up the Flex here and had Mike make me a 46 (mentioned several posts up, underneath the purple people eater) so that I could try both. They both have a lot to recommend them, and I could see one or the other working better in different situations and/or depending on your tastes.

I'm still getting to know the cabs and haven't gigged the 46 (with or without sub) yet, but I can say the following:

• Comparing just the tops, the 46 is a one-hander, the Flex a two-hander (at least for me -- maybe some folks could one-hand it with a handle on top).
• The 46 is more even, top-to-bottom, than the Flex top. With the sub, they're closer, but the 46 is still more even. If you're looking for a "blank slate" for a variety of instruments, I suspect that the 46 would be closer.
• Both cabs with the sub are articulate and pop. The Flex, I think, has more pop and more separation between notes, but I'd have to play the 46+sub on a gig to say for sure. (I didn't fully appreciate the Flex until I gigged it.)
• 46+sub, to my ear, is, as Jake said, bigger down low and rounder than the Flex. It is a full, smooth sound.
• I think that you could EQ the Flex and the 46+sub to have a similar tonal profile (similar frequency response curve), but the character of the mids to upper mids would be different, with the Flex being rougher and more textured. Different drivers, crossover, and the mids in the Flex have their own waveguide (if that's the right word).

Gotta run -- will add more in the event of a stray insight and/or as I get more time and experience with the cabs.

 

[Proton Lenny]

Thanks for all the insight gents. I appreciate the help. Think I'll still need to take a long drive up to Chicago and hear for myself. The truth of the matter is, most of my gigs are on a big enough stage where 80% of my heard sound is monitors, not my rig. So this is all nit picking over stuff I probably won't be able to perceive much on the gig. Except for the rare smaller gigs where I'd just bring the top. Both of these things lead me to kind of think logistically the 46 may be a better choice for me, even though sonically, the Flex might edge out for my preference.