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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

#2,001
iualum said:
How do these otherwise seriously power-hungry boxes react with the relatively low output from an all-valve head?

Big watts are always recommended other than for the 112 Essential LPT.
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When I was badgering Mike about the status of the MAS115/215 he told me that one of those with my Mesa 400 atop could "disarm North Korea". One day I hope to find out. Until then I'll defer to others with practical experience in this area.

(On a side note, the 400 has replaced an Ampeg SVT6-Pro which is an 1100 watt head.)

Raz
 
#2,004
iualum said:
How do these otherwise seriously power-hungry boxes react with the relatively low output from an all-valve head?

Big watts are always recommended other than for the 112 Essential LPT.
Click to expand...

I think that big output transformers can help level the playing field. I can definitely say that all of the MAS cabs which I have tried with tube heads have performed really well with them. The Reeves C225 seems especially well-suited for Mike's cabs.
 
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#2,005
MVW cabs as a rule like transformers. The all digital amplifiers work, but you need a higher end one to get the kind of performance an iron amplifier will give. Not that familiar with the bass amp world, but in pro sound the example is the low end Behringer and Crown. The difference is audible, and they really don't like the insane transient response of these cabs. At least that's our conjecture. You cannot push them hard.
 
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#2,006
tombowlus said:
I think that big output transformers can help level the playing field. I can definitely say that all of the MAS cabs which I have tried with tube heads have performed really well with them. The Reeves C225 seems especially well-suited for Mike's cabs.
Click to expand...
Well, that's excellent news, then. Have 3 all-valves from which to choose (300 Pro, 400+, V6). Probably mostly going to be a difference in schematics.
 
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#2,007
Couple of quick observations:

I finally tried my MAS 112 on its side, angled up 15 or 20 degrees with a foam wedge underneath. Just did this at home (I am unlikely to play a stage that will allow for this soon) but it really does make a difference. Some more bass (even on a carpeted floor), a bit more plush feel to this tight and focused cab, and, most notably, more of the 3D effect -- felt a bit more like the Flex in that regard. The 112 has always had a clear sound and excellent dispersion (sounds even out in the house), but, to my ear, is the most traditional sounding and least obviously "3D" of Mike's cabs that I've played (I haven't played the Faital and LPT variants of the 112, or the 109). Turning it on its side... not a night and day difference but there was something immediately noticeable -- more open, relaxed, enveloping -- in the presentation. My brother actually likes it better vertical. Will have to play with this some more.

Of the Flex, 112, and the 46, the 46 is definitely the most hi-fi. Beautiful cab but, with my Fender, I've found myself leaning toward the more forward and textured mids of the Flex and the 112. Yesterday, I played a very modern-sounding (think "piano-like") six string that I'm trying out, through all three cabs and, to my surprise, liked it best through the 46. I say "to my surprise" because I often find myself doing a yin/yang thing with gear -- fat amp that's big down low? Pair it with a tight cab, etc. With this bass, though, the 46 seemed to enhance everything it did. It sounded good through the other cabs, but the 46 seemed made for it. I dont' know if it's so much a yang/yang thing (which is how I was tempted to think of it before) as strength complementing strength; the extreme clarity of the 46 just allowing everything to come through. And while all these cabs are quick and articulate, the 46 is probably the most plush down low (esp. with the sub, though I was playing it on its own) and the least "dry". ("Dry" here meaning zero overhang to the notes -- the 112 is the driest cab I've ever played, in that regard; the 46 not as dry but still quick and clean; and the Flex between the 46 and the 112 in "dryness".) That bass is very dry -- good sustain, but not a lot of ring from the body -- so maybe a nice yin/yang that way, if that makes sense. The sound was clean, clear, and full.

Side note: I'm not convinced of the B-string on this bass. I have a hell of a time finding a B-string I really like -- wonky overtones, man. First world problem, I know.
 
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#2,010
Thanks for the Dingwall recommendations, guys. When I went down to Chicago-land to pick up my 46 from Mike, I spent a couple of days trying out sixers (I've had brief relationships with six-strings before, but they didn't last). There were a couple of stand-outs, but, based on how the 35" scale basses felt, I'm not sure how how my left shoulder would get along with a 37" scale. And I'd have to use doublebass fingerings in the low positions, for sure -- not a big deal, just a matter of awareness and discipline. I found some shorter-scale basses with pretty decent B-strings and some 35" scale ones (played a few fivers, too -- even in the Windy City, there aren't all that many six strings around, it seems) with B-strings that were just meh, though it does seem like maybe it's easier to get a B that holds together (overtones line up with the fundamental) as you go up the neck with a longer scale. Maybe I'm unrealistic, but the inharmonicity on most B-strings just bugs me... I did play an STR once with a B that held together past the 20th fret, though. 35" on the B *might* be do-able for me if everything is in just the right place. I did play my first ever fanned-fret bass (not a Dingwall). Didn't spend a lot of time with it, but it was interesting -- I can see, for me, advantages and disadvantages. I was able to get around it better than I thought I'd be able to, though. Do they make those 35" scale basses in a six string? Anyone know where I could try one in the Midwest?

Derail aside, I'm starting to appreciate that 46 more. The cabs are all versatile but, just as with any other gear, some match-ups are more synergistic than others. That six-string is gone (it was almost there for me), but playing it through the 46 -- man. Bubbly, buoyant, full, smooth, connected, nuanced in articulation. Made me think of this, but more so...



More full down low, more clear up top (though I realize I'm comparing the sound I heard to a live Youtube recording). Not that I sounded liked that or that I was playing like Jimmy Haslip, but it made think I could and made me want to try.

 
#2,011
@JGR has been kind enough to let me goof around on his latest prototype of the Box O' Tone preamp/D.I. and I've posted some clips in his thread. Here is one of it through the 18 Sound MAS 112. Nothing super-exciting (I'm playing with the variable impedance control on the front of the D.I., which has an effect on feel and some effect on tone, though I'm not sure how much of that comes across in the recording), but I'm including it here because it might give folks some inkling of the tone/feel/articulation of the cab. A reiteration of the unreliability of clips for things like this is in order -- my bass, my playing, and my questionable mic-ing technique all come into play -- but, for what it's worth, I'm playing my passive Fender P/J with both pickups up full into the BoT into one side of an old Lab Gruppen fp2200 power amp into the 112. No EQ or other processing. Mic is an AT 2035 stuck about 8" in front of the grill, pointing more-or-less at the woofer, a little off-center. I don't think it captures all the subtleties of the cab or the DI (mids are more present and detailed in my memory), but I don't think it's horribly off, either. Anyway, here you go:

 
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#2,012
Oh, hell. As long as I'm boring you guys with water-torture clips of incremental knob changes, here are two more. Same exact setup (bass, mic placement, etc.) as before, but on the bridge pickup and the neck pickup, respectively. Listening to these through headphones now, I think the balance is skewed toward the woofer (likely my mic placement), but you can still hear the clarity of the high end. Mids are in the default position and the tweeter is on for all of these clips.


 
#2,013
This one might be slightly more fun -- made it before the others, and rather hurriedly. Biggest difference here is that the mic is 5 feet or so from the cab, sitting atop a stool and pointed in its general direction. You can hear the insect life outside and the acoustic string/finger noise from me standing too close to the mic. Same little riff is played flat and then with the various voicing filters of the BoT engaged, so you can hear how the cab reacts to that.

 
#2,016
tombowlus said:
I'm planning on gigging the 66+10 this weekend for an outside gig. Debating what head to bring... Puma 900? Demeter VT head? Anything GK? Reeves C225? I bet any of those would kick butt. But, I just had a thought... DB750! That could be the ticket. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Well, I tried out the DB750 a couple of days ago, and to be honest, I didn't find it to be as good of a match as the Demeter, so I think I'm going to roll with the VT head as my main amp, and maybe bring the Puma as a backup. As much fun as it is playing through the all tube heads, I'm also lugging (and running) the PA tonight, so the smaller, lighter heads are especially attractive for this show.
 
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#2,017
tombowlus said:
Well, I tried out the DB750 a couple of days ago, and to be honest, I didn't find it to be as good of a match as the Demeter, so I think I'm going to roll with the VT head as my main amp, and maybe bring the Puma as a backup. As much fun as it is playing through the all tube heads, I'm also lugging (and running) the PA tonight, so the smaller, lighter heads are especially attractive for this show.
Click to expand...

Tom, you always have the best toys! VT + MAS, looking forwards to your report.

=wr=
 
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#2,018
Hey MarkA, thanks for the clips. I look forward to listening through some headphones when I get some time.

As for the Dingwalls, if you have not tried a 37 inch Dingwall, I think you would be surprised how well balanced the instrument is. Also, the additional length is not really 2" because at least half is realized at the bridge.

But Sheldon makes a 35" as well for the Super P and Super J basses and they are a joy to play. What's also nice is the D and G strings are almost short-scale length at 32.75 and 32" respectively. It keeps those strings at a nice tension and makes for a bit warmer tone for those strings compared to most single scale 35" D and G strings.

If you haven't tried one, you should. You may be pleasantly surprised.
 
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#2,019
@BuffaloBob4343, thank you! I will look into that. Didn't realize that the G went down to 32".

There is a really neat fanned-fret P-bass on here, made by/for someone who played on the Lawrence Welk show -- it's not a Dingwall, but I think it's pretty cool. The fan only goes in one direction (toward the bridge -- straight nut). I've thought something like that could be cool/comfortable, though it would allow for less of a fan than fanning out the frets in both directions would.
 
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#2,020
MarkA said:
...

Side note: I'm not convinced of the B-string on this bass. I have a hell of a time finding a B-string I really like -- wonky overtones, man. First world problem, I know.
Click to expand...
Le Fay makes some fanned fret basses, I haven't tried any, but they're out there (a few other luthiers as well).
I don't think Lakland makes 6 string basses, but their 5's are mostly 35" and have a neck that doesn't feel very different from most 34" basses that I've played.
I really don't like to play on any B strings up above about the 6th fret, maybe it just the strings that I've played.
Just sounds too tonally different than the same notes on the E string.
 

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