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Big E speakers: Pt 2
- Thread starter Chef
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Man--it was crazy! We had 4 inches of water in about 15 minutes. The volume of water was so intense that it pulled the gutter downspout extensions off. Fortunately I replaced my sump pump a month ago. I was at the local hardware store at about 7am to buy sheet metal screws. They opened at 6:30 and aleadty had about 35 people in to buy pumps and Shop Vacs!
We had a tiny bit of water in the basement--all is good!
We had a tiny bit of water in the basement--all is good!
4" of water in less than a half hour, is incredible!
I used to live in coastal mountains , and the clouds coming in off the Pacific were wrung out when they hit the hills.
Over a weekend a 5 gallon paint bucket could get filled but it all ran down hill. Congrats on your prior planning with the sump pump!
Glad you are OK. We missed the heavy stuff up here to the North, but it rained pretty solid for over 2 days. A couple inches of rain. Seems to finally be over.
A new sump pump is a good feeling when something like this happens! Good for you!
Here is a teaser pic from my current shootout.
Edit:
Started a thread for the comparison - don't want to derail this one.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/berg-cn212-vs-big-e-8x5-977798/
Edit:
Started a thread for the comparison - don't want to derail this one.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/berg-cn212-vs-big-e-8x5-977798/
Glad it arrived safe and sound. I'll be sending badges (ran out) next week. Got a nice (I think) new design for MAS (Micahel Arnopol Soundworks). I'll also be sending them to all who have cabs---complete with heavy duty adhesive backing. Along with the MVW badges.
Let's just say that I'm trying to get professionalism a little higher on the priority list!
Let's just say that I'm trying to get professionalism a little higher on the priority list!
Hey Mike, you did some fine work. Can't wait to see the badges. I think it looks like Darth Vader's bass cab in all black. The wife says it looks like it came out of the Matrix!
On the DB side a guy says that it looks like an insect! It actually does! Maybe we should use Latin insect names.
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
Or it's sort of like the PA the Grateful Dead used in their spring 1976 east coast theater tour. They put together two systems that were based on small drivers and it looked like giant fly's eyes on either side of the stage. I've found descriptions of that PA but no pictures. It sounded stunning, though.
I really just put the 2x6 through some serious paces playing back music. My ears gave up before it did running a single channel of my QSC USA 850. I paced it against an MCM house brand 12" sub. The sub was mushy, indefinite, and muddy all across its respective range where you could actually feel the transients with the Big E. Snares popped, bass drums kicked, and Justin Hawkins of the Darkness really wailed. 
I had actually adopted the single 2x6 as a PA speaker previous to this and it worked very, very well. Our vocalist commented that it was a lot cleaner than the PA at the bar that we used to work at together. This was all in a half full basement being used as storage for my landlord and a jam space by me. Next time I'll be running the bass direct!
I had actually adopted the single 2x6 as a PA speaker previous to this and it worked very, very well. Our vocalist commented that it was a lot cleaner than the PA at the bar that we used to work at together. This was all in a half full basement being used as storage for my landlord and a jam space by me. Next time I'll be running the bass direct!
This came from my comparison thread, I thought I would share it here as it is all about the 8x5. 
Disclaimer:
This is all one mans humble, and in no way professional opinion and experience!
I got to spend a couple of hours with the 85 yesterday. I have been playing music with my best friend/drummer for 8 years or so, minus a recent 10 month hiatus due to life and work getting in the way. We moved ourselves into a well insulated area and turned it up.
I first want to say that I can understand Mike's reluctance to post clips of these cabs. While the tone is fantastic, the real appeal of these cabs comes from something that doesn't translate to youtube.
The feel you get is the draw for me. I have always had a preference for the feel of sealed cabs (and ported ones that react like sealed one). I can honestly say that I prefer the feel of this cab to that of my sealed cabs. I spent a while trying to figure out how to describe it, so here it goes:
With most ported cabs it always seemed like there was a delay at the start and more so the end of a played note. It is more apparent in the lower registers. Even playing very percussively it seemed that the edges of the note were softened. The Berg CN212 and Baer ML112 really doesn't suffer near as much from this as most ported cabs I have tried, yet they still have some inherent traits.
With the sealed cabs that I have played (i.e. ampeg 810 mostly), the cabs seem to respond quicker. The quicker response has really seemed to go hand in hand with a more congested sound, with attenuated lows and bumped low mids. It also seemed that the highs weren't as open.
Enter the MAS 8x5:
Looks, tone, portability, weight, fit & finish, volume capabilities, that all comes later. This is about feel. The response of the 5" is incredible. The sound jumps out at you as if your strings are directly connected to them. Once you start getting the vortex(or whatever wild terminology they are using for it now) going, the 85 becomes increasingly .....ummm let's say MUSICAL. I noticed it really start to take effect before I hit half volume on my STM900. What I was getting with a bit of an aggressive pick attack was the most addictive and rewarding playing experience I have had. It was inspiring. After 10 months of not playing together, my buddy and I were able to lock in as well as we ever had before. The cab is VERY dynamic. If you play something smooth you get something smooth, if you play something aggressive you get something aggressive. Yes, thats what all cabs do... but this "feels" different. Every note is separated. Pluck the notes of a chord. They ring out individually and stay that way, no getting muddled as they decay. What I have found, is that this particular cabinet is by far the most EXPRESIVE that I have had the good fortune to play.
I know, I sound like a fanboy...............
but there really is something going on with this technology.
Disclaimer:
This is all one mans humble, and in no way professional opinion and experience!
I got to spend a couple of hours with the 85 yesterday. I have been playing music with my best friend/drummer for 8 years or so, minus a recent 10 month hiatus due to life and work getting in the way. We moved ourselves into a well insulated area and turned it up.
I first want to say that I can understand Mike's reluctance to post clips of these cabs. While the tone is fantastic, the real appeal of these cabs comes from something that doesn't translate to youtube.
The feel you get is the draw for me. I have always had a preference for the feel of sealed cabs (and ported ones that react like sealed one). I can honestly say that I prefer the feel of this cab to that of my sealed cabs. I spent a while trying to figure out how to describe it, so here it goes:
With most ported cabs it always seemed like there was a delay at the start and more so the end of a played note. It is more apparent in the lower registers. Even playing very percussively it seemed that the edges of the note were softened. The Berg CN212 and Baer ML112 really doesn't suffer near as much from this as most ported cabs I have tried, yet they still have some inherent traits.
With the sealed cabs that I have played (i.e. ampeg 810 mostly), the cabs seem to respond quicker. The quicker response has really seemed to go hand in hand with a more congested sound, with attenuated lows and bumped low mids. It also seemed that the highs weren't as open.
Enter the MAS 8x5:
Looks, tone, portability, weight, fit & finish, volume capabilities, that all comes later. This is about feel. The response of the 5" is incredible. The sound jumps out at you as if your strings are directly connected to them. Once you start getting the vortex(or whatever wild terminology they are using for it now) going, the 85 becomes increasingly .....ummm let's say MUSICAL. I noticed it really start to take effect before I hit half volume on my STM900. What I was getting with a bit of an aggressive pick attack was the most addictive and rewarding playing experience I have had. It was inspiring. After 10 months of not playing together, my buddy and I were able to lock in as well as we ever had before. The cab is VERY dynamic. If you play something smooth you get something smooth, if you play something aggressive you get something aggressive. Yes, thats what all cabs do... but this "feels" different. Every note is separated. Pluck the notes of a chord. They ring out individually and stay that way, no getting muddled as they decay. What I have found, is that this particular cabinet is by far the most EXPRESIVE that I have had the good fortune to play.
I know, I sound like a fanboy...............
but there really is something going on with this technology.
This came from my comparison thread, I thought I would share it here as it is all about the 8x5.
Disclaimer:
This is all one mans humble, and in no way professional opinion and experience!
I got to spend a couple of hours with the 85 yesterday. I have been playing music with my best friend/drummer for 8 years or so, minus a recent 10 month hiatus due to life and work getting in the way. We moved ourselves into a well insulated area and turned it up.
I first want to say that I can understand Mike's reluctance to post clips of these cabs. While the tone is fantastic, the real appeal of these cabs comes from something that doesn't translate to youtube.
The feel you get is the draw for me. I have always had a preference for the feel of sealed cabs (and ported ones that react like sealed one). I can honestly say that I prefer the feel of this cab to that of my sealed cabs. I spent a while trying to figure out how to describe it, so here it goes:
With most ported cabs it always seemed like there was a delay at the start and more so the end of a played note. It is more apparent in the lower registers. Even playing very percussively it seemed that the edges of the note were softened. The Berg CN212 and Baer ML112 really doesn't suffer near as much from this as most ported cabs I have tried, yet they still have some inherent traits.
With the sealed cabs that I have played (i.e. ampeg 810 mostly), the cabs seem to respond quicker. The quicker response has really seemed to go hand in hand with a more congested sound, with attenuated lows and bumped low mids. It also seemed that the highs weren't as open.
Enter the MAS 8x5:
Looks, tone, portability, weight, fit & finish, volume capabilities, that all comes later. This is about feel. The response of the 5" is incredible. The sound jumps out at you as if your strings are directly connected to them. Once you start getting the vortex(or whatever wild terminology they are using for it now) going, the 85 becomes increasingly .....ummm let's say MUSICAL. I noticed it really start to take effect before I hit half volume on my STM900. What I was getting with a bit of an aggressive pick attack was the most addictive and rewarding playing experience I have had. It was inspiring. After 10 months of not playing together, my buddy and I were able to lock in as well as we ever had before. The cab is VERY dynamic. If you play something smooth you get something smooth, if you play something aggressive you get something aggressive. Yes, thats what all cabs do... but this "feels" different. Every note is separated. Pluck the notes of a chord. They ring out individually and stay that way, no getting muddled as they decay. What I have found, is that this particular cabinet is by far the most EXPRESIVE that I have had the good fortune to play.
I know, I sound like a fanboy...............
but there really is something going on with this technology.
I'm intrigued. Wonder how these would sound with a Demeter-Jules DeMonique.
Believe me, I have been wondering the same thing! That purchase, unfortunately for me, won't be for a while. I am all for meeting up with someone who owns one to give it a spin, I put a feeler on the Monique thread. Honestly, thinking about a dove cave de-Monique on top of the 85 has been keeping me up at night. I remember Nostatic mentioning some very cool things through the 4x6.
That is exactly how I would describe the Big E's I have after initially demoing them with my Mesa Buster. It was ridiculous.
I think that one thing that 3rd is saying is that the envelope of a ported cab is different than a sealed cab.
As I said in the other thread Duke and I were talking about something that I've always believed . I prefer the envelope (how the sound starts and stops) of sealed cabs. Ports are kindof cheating in a way. The great thing about reflex cabs is that you can get better bass quantity, extension , power handling and efficiency in a reasonably sized cab. But one thing that you're getting---the sound coming from the port that supports the lowest octaves does not sound as good as the sound coming from the front of the cone. The acceleration response is slower and there is overhang. (from the port) I once talked to a very well respected designer of very high end stereo cabs who said "I don't want to hear anything coming out of a port in my music". Now let's be honest---there are obviously very intelligent designers out there making great speakers that are reflex designs---the high power handling speakers are optimized for reflex enclosures.
To get a sealed box that would go as loud and as low and be efficient as a well designed reflex box--- it would have to be huge. But reflex designers have to do a balancing act to reach their design goals. And there are some super smart guys out there designing great reflex speakers.
So--to me-- what appears to be speed of response is just taking the port out of the equation. It's funny---I liked the Thunderchild better after plugging one port. You know what the response looked more like? A sealed box. The contribution of the port was moved lower. But at the same time low end output was lessened.
The Big E technology is neither ported nor sealed. I think that the apparent "speed" is not as much about driver size. It's how the cabinet presents the envelope of the note. The speaker size may define the tonal voicing but not the "speed".
By the way--check out the thread about neo vs. ceramic. It's super cool. Aged Horse, Arjank and other really smart guys are really getting into depth on driver design and how manipulating
the magnetic field can change the voicing of speakers. It's really fascinating. I felt like a kindergartner listening to Einstein and Bohr.
As I said in the other thread Duke and I were talking about something that I've always believed . I prefer the envelope (how the sound starts and stops) of sealed cabs. Ports are kindof cheating in a way. The great thing about reflex cabs is that you can get better bass quantity, extension , power handling and efficiency in a reasonably sized cab. But one thing that you're getting---the sound coming from the port that supports the lowest octaves does not sound as good as the sound coming from the front of the cone. The acceleration response is slower and there is overhang. (from the port) I once talked to a very well respected designer of very high end stereo cabs who said "I don't want to hear anything coming out of a port in my music". Now let's be honest---there are obviously very intelligent designers out there making great speakers that are reflex designs---the high power handling speakers are optimized for reflex enclosures.
To get a sealed box that would go as loud and as low and be efficient as a well designed reflex box--- it would have to be huge. But reflex designers have to do a balancing act to reach their design goals. And there are some super smart guys out there designing great reflex speakers.
So--to me-- what appears to be speed of response is just taking the port out of the equation. It's funny---I liked the Thunderchild better after plugging one port. You know what the response looked more like? A sealed box. The contribution of the port was moved lower. But at the same time low end output was lessened.
The Big E technology is neither ported nor sealed. I think that the apparent "speed" is not as much about driver size. It's how the cabinet presents the envelope of the note. The speaker size may define the tonal voicing but not the "speed".
By the way--check out the thread about neo vs. ceramic. It's super cool. Aged Horse, Arjank and other really smart guys are really getting into depth on driver design and how manipulating
the magnetic field can change the voicing of speakers. It's really fascinating. I felt like a kindergartner listening to Einstein and Bohr.
Every time I've ever experienced apparent slowness it was due to something in the FR from 150hz down. If you slap an Fdeck series 3 on a ported cab and turn the variable knob up to 70hz or so, it becomes indistinguishable from sealed for me.
Just my two pence, not saying everyone's experience is the same
Just my two pence, not saying everyone's experience is the same
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