Two of us really dig them.
Maybe the fives are the more popular config now.
Loud deep articulate is my call on my 4x8.
Mike will point out differences I am sure.
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Big E speakers: Pt 2
- Thread starter Chef
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Two of us really dig them.
Maybe the fives are the more popular config now.
Loud deep articulate is my call on my 4x8.
Mike will point out differences I am sure.
The 48's have the most astounding low end I've ever heard. Super powerful, low, and no boom. As articulate as the 5's.
The 5" based cabs have great low end. Imagine the super 15 cabs out there. The 5's go as low. They just don't boom. No overhang to the notes.
I never thought I'd like anything that went lower than that. A recipe for disaster in my book. Any big cab I've played that tried to go lower just seemed to put a "boomy" blanket over everything. Until I heard the Big E 6's and 8's. Especially the 8's.Hearing what a B string really sounds like with out it ruining the rest of the sound.
The 48 will waste an 810 and keep up with a 215. The 48 has the most neutral balance. The 6's and 5's have a little bit of a mid/upper bass warmth. The 8's are plenty warm---not at all dry---just more neutral.
A new version of the 48 has been added. Faital has come up with a killin' uber compression driver so that I can use just one. I've coupled it to a fabulous waveguide horn (Duke's recommendation) A bit more "direct" highs as opposed to the more "enveloping" highs of the original. Both sound great. The new one knocks off 5# of weight.
The 5" based cabs have great low end. Imagine the super 15 cabs out there. The 5's go as low. They just don't boom. No overhang to the notes.
I never thought I'd like anything that went lower than that. A recipe for disaster in my book. Any big cab I've played that tried to go lower just seemed to put a "boomy" blanket over everything. Until I heard the Big E 6's and 8's. Especially the 8's.Hearing what a B string really sounds like with out it ruining the rest of the sound.
The 48 will waste an 810 and keep up with a 215. The 48 has the most neutral balance. The 6's and 5's have a little bit of a mid/upper bass warmth. The 8's are plenty warm---not at all dry---just more neutral.
A new version of the 48 has been added. Faital has come up with a killin' uber compression driver so that I can use just one. I've coupled it to a fabulous waveguide horn (Duke's recommendation) A bit more "direct" highs as opposed to the more "enveloping" highs of the original. Both sound great. The new one knocks off 5# of weight.
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
You are making me salivate. I'd love to hear one of the 48s with my Modulus Q6 TBX! It sounds like it would not make me miss my fEARful at all.
Have you experimented with stereo rigs at all? There are times when I run stereo effects (ping pong delays, reverbs, etc) and haven't had on stage stereo monitoring in a while because of the size and weight issues, but do you think a could of 28s would work well in that context?
Conceivably he could set up a 4x8 cabinet with independent inputs for each pair of speakers and a patch cord could be used to connect the other pair of speakers for mono operation. This would likely require the use of the old version's tweeters. This seems rather simple to me - only needs another input jack or two compared to stock.
Oops - I just remembered it would probably need another crossover too. Still, not too complex.
Oops - I just remembered it would probably need another crossover too. Still, not too complex.
I sometimes run stereo without FOH. The most effect is really in the mids and highs. Like 500hz up.
I don't separate the cabs, instead they are next to each other and crossfired
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1293
Not as much crossfired in as these are, but you get the idea.
For rotating speaker type effects the throw is pretty far and predictable this way. And when you switch to mono - there's no weird combing
If I was to get a stereo cab I'd look for the cross-firing arrangement.
I don't separate the cabs, instead they are next to each other and crossfired
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1293
Not as much crossfired in as these are, but you get the idea.
For rotating speaker type effects the throw is pretty far and predictable this way. And when you switch to mono - there's no weird combing
If I was to get a stereo cab I'd look for the cross-firing arrangement.
Post #36 in this thread shows that when the cabinet lays horizontally the speakers are in a cross-fire arrangement. The cabinet in the photo is standing vertically.
Here is the photo :
Here is the photo :
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
Yes, but I don't rely on the stage sound to bring the stereoness to the audience. I let the PA do that. It's been a while since I've played a gig where the stage volume had to carry the room. Back in the day, I used to use a lot of very stereo delay sounds and we carried a PA with us and when we played rooms that had a good one, we set ours up in the back and the soundguy would mess with it further so some really psychedelic effects were possible. Of course, very little of this is an issue for 95% of the playing I do now.
I could do either. The newest version uses one tweet, but two is pretty easy---there is enough space. So---one cab in stereo or 2 cabs. And the stereo could have switchable jumpers.
Tom and Steve (the Big E boys)are driving 2 1/2 hours on Saturday to my place to help crank out cabs. They are REALLY good guys.
Tom and Steve (the Big E boys)are driving 2 1/2 hours on Saturday to my place to help crank out cabs. They are REALLY good guys.
Now that's customer support!
No waiting 7 months for a cab.
Don't ask me what that means, cause I won't say, but Mike and BigE seem to be very concerned about turn around time.
No waiting 7 months for a cab.
Don't ask me what that means, cause I won't say, but Mike and BigE seem to be very concerned about turn around time.
How are the highs on the 48? How are the new horn vs previous horn vs combo of the two? Can it get Marcus Miller highs but still have good lows? Can the horns be adjusted?
The previous version has multiple horn drivers firing into a narrow dispersion waveguide horn with a front diffuser. While this sounds great IMO it is a bit more of a PA type horn. Meaning that you hear less highs right in front of the speaker---and more as you move away from it. In front of the speaker it is a bit more "enveloping" and warm.
The new design uses a heavy duty molded horn (recommended by Duke) and a brand new uber high powered Faital driver. So I only need one driver. It's a beast at around 5# which is about the weight of the two drivers used previously. It's going to knock off about a pound since I don't have to use the large integrated wood horn.
Since the horn is still a lot more efficient than the woofer it can be adjusted to pretty screaming highs if wanted. An available option is either a switch or a rotary attenuator to adjust the highs. The difference with the highs on the Big E's is that I'm using the best high frequency drivers so it's not the bite-your-head-off highs typical of bass cabs.
So---if you want an aggressive slap tone you can use even more highs without sounding annoyingly bright because of the quality of the drivers and crossover.
As far as lows----I don't know another way to describe it---the deepest, most powerful lows I've ever experienced. But tight and focused.Flappin' the pants legs and hitting you in the chest.
As Nostatic had commented to me---they really have the "feel the lows" thing happening.
Any other conventional cab I've ever played with super powerful lows have had the habit of putting a huge "bass blanket" over the sound. With the Big E's I can play repeated 16th notes on the B string with pretty amazing power but with this astounding separation between notes.
I think it will be the same or just a bit more volume as the Berg. Close to a standard 15 but less than a "super" 15 like a Greenboy or Thunderchild 15.
The Bergs have helped define one type of great modern hifi bass tone. They're great cabs. To me---within it's dynamic limits---the 5" based cabs are the most balanced bass cabs I've played through. When most people talk about "punch" in bass cabs they're talking about the mids and the ability to hear yourself from the mids really speaking well. Which is a good thing. When I talk about "punch" with the Big E's I'm talking about really feeling the air moved. I just played an upright gig with the 45. When walking every note had the thump and physical presence I'm looking for. I prefer a flatter midrange---just my preference. I think that some guys prefer a rising midrange so that when played live the mids allow the bass to "cut" through. The Big E's take midrange boost very nicely if that's your thing.In my opinion I prefer not having to have elevated mids so as to hear myself. I'd rather have my pitch and rhythmic definition from the lower range. I think that the popularity of some of the great new cabs like the Baer, Xsonic and Glasstone cabs (they're all very different but great sounding in their own ways) is due to the fact that bass players are finally starting to get it----huge low end has a tendency of obscuring the harmonics above the bass range. These cabs aren't trying to do super powerful low bass. Just punchy, articulate bass. I'd rather have things a bit leaner below 100hz if it yields better articulation.
I've never liked the "voice of God" massive low end. All the notes run together to me. I heard a comment about a highly respected cab where the bassist asked an audience member how the bass sounded. The comment was that the bass was plenty loud and powerful but he couldn't really hear what he was playing. That's powerful bass gone bad.
To me, the Big E's have that power but everything is super articulate.
I think this is it in a nutshell. My Baers are really voiced with a present midrange - very different vibe than the 4x6. "Better" is totally up to what the individual prefers. A mid boost on the 4x6 gets you part of the way there, just like a low mid boost on the Baer pushes it more towards 4x6 voice. But I think while most good cabs will take eq well, they really shine when they are pumping out what the designer had in mind (if that makes sense).
Funny thing is that the 5" based cabs are a bit more forward in the mids. The Big E's are weird---the 6.5 cabs and 5" cabs measure pretty much the same---but the 5's "feel" a bit punchier in the mids. I think that it's difference in basic character of the Faitals in the 5's and the Eminence Oem's in the 6's.
That's another peculiarity of measuring. If you look at the 2 cabs (5's and 6.5's) in terms of measurements they "look" like they should sound the same. But they have noticeably different characters. I really like them both. I truly believe that EVERYTHING is measurable---it's just that there are so many subtleties that have yet to be figured out. There are so many more different measurements available today that weren't available 20 years ago. But I truly believe that we're still just scratching the surface as far as quantifying the entirety of the subjective listening experience.
As I stated earlier---I prefer to get my pitch and rhythmic definition from the mid to upper bass. The low bass gives you the "girth". The "thump or "whomp" that allow you to really feel what you're playing comes from what I'd call the mid bass. The pitch definition comes from the mid to upper bass. Most speakers that try to give the "whomp" are ill defined in my opinion. And the pitch feels not--too--centered to me. Pushing up the area where you hinge upon to hear what you're playing makes sense if you can't get it from the bass regions. Not a criticism---just a difference in philosophy. What drew me to playing bass was the physicality of it. Now I feel like I have my cake and eat it too. Even in the crappiest sonic situations ---band members and the audience consistently say "I could hear every note you're playing." And the nice thing is---I can feel the "whomp" too.
That's another peculiarity of measuring. If you look at the 2 cabs (5's and 6.5's) in terms of measurements they "look" like they should sound the same. But they have noticeably different characters. I really like them both. I truly believe that EVERYTHING is measurable---it's just that there are so many subtleties that have yet to be figured out. There are so many more different measurements available today that weren't available 20 years ago. But I truly believe that we're still just scratching the surface as far as quantifying the entirety of the subjective listening experience.
As I stated earlier---I prefer to get my pitch and rhythmic definition from the mid to upper bass. The low bass gives you the "girth". The "thump or "whomp" that allow you to really feel what you're playing comes from what I'd call the mid bass. The pitch definition comes from the mid to upper bass. Most speakers that try to give the "whomp" are ill defined in my opinion. And the pitch feels not--too--centered to me. Pushing up the area where you hinge upon to hear what you're playing makes sense if you can't get it from the bass regions. Not a criticism---just a difference in philosophy. What drew me to playing bass was the physicality of it. Now I feel like I have my cake and eat it too. Even in the crappiest sonic situations ---band members and the audience consistently say "I could hear every note you're playing." And the nice thing is---I can feel the "whomp" too.
2.5 hours of Cabpallooza this afternoon with steubig. NOTE: non-scientific and totally subjective session. The players:
ML112 (pair)
TC212 composite
TC112
BigE 4x6
Monique/Minnie
Puma 900
ShuttleMax 12.0
Random Foderas (4 and 6, fretted and fretless), Rob Allen Deep 4, Shen SB190 with KK BassMax piezo. We tried most every combination including some mix/match with the cabs. The short stories:
ML112 - most articulate, best "rock"cab by far (of course depends on what you like more Chris Squire/Geddy Lee/etc)
TC212 - huge sound - made the TC112 sound small by comparison. More relaxed in the mids, more "hi-fi".
BigE 4x6 - best with the upright, more of a low-mid push, and it has some really interesting things going on with dispersion.
Lot's more minor impressions with them. Really three very differently voiced cabs. I can say that despite my comment earlier, the pair of ML112s sounds different than the single cab. Not just louder, but also more beef. We also tried them vertical, horizontal, and L-configuration. Subtle differences, steubig like the L-config best, I'm still clinging to the vertical.
Actually the surprise hit was the ML112 with the BigE 4x6 on top, stacked vertically. Kind of a yin/yang thing going on there - articulate upper mid cut with the Baer, some low-mid push with the BigE. Sounded huge and nasty together.
The BigE also did some crazy things with close intervals (e.g. m2, m9). The beating would actually start to pulse and move as the notes rang over time. Really interesting sounds (in the capable hands of steubig - he plays some crazy stuff).
ML112 (pair)
TC212 composite
TC112
BigE 4x6
Monique/Minnie
Puma 900
ShuttleMax 12.0
Random Foderas (4 and 6, fretted and fretless), Rob Allen Deep 4, Shen SB190 with KK BassMax piezo. We tried most every combination including some mix/match with the cabs. The short stories:
ML112 - most articulate, best "rock"cab by far (of course depends on what you like more Chris Squire/Geddy Lee/etc)
TC212 - huge sound - made the TC112 sound small by comparison. More relaxed in the mids, more "hi-fi".
BigE 4x6 - best with the upright, more of a low-mid push, and it has some really interesting things going on with dispersion.
Lot's more minor impressions with them. Really three very differently voiced cabs. I can say that despite my comment earlier, the pair of ML112s sounds different than the single cab. Not just louder, but also more beef. We also tried them vertical, horizontal, and L-configuration. Subtle differences, steubig like the L-config best, I'm still clinging to the vertical.
Actually the surprise hit was the ML112 with the BigE 4x6 on top, stacked vertically. Kind of a yin/yang thing going on there - articulate upper mid cut with the Baer, some low-mid push with the BigE. Sounded huge and nasty together.
The BigE also did some crazy things with close intervals (e.g. m2, m9). The beating would actually start to pulse and move as the notes rang over time. Really interesting sounds (in the capable hands of steubig - he plays some crazy stuff).
i'm following todd's post on these . . .
i'll chime in on the cabalooza.
first, big fun (thanks todd—and thanks to your better half for dealing with a lot of loud lowend sound in the house for a number of hours).
what todd says pretty much is our consensus.
my addenda:
1. wish the baer could turn the small speaker (don't know the size) down a little as it's just a little too much for me. brilliant cab though.
2. the tc212 sounds great. too big/much for my needs. i like my tc112 fine and today made me think about getting another (as opposed to having a 212). if you need a very clean, loud cab with a lot of low end, the 212 could be something to look at. (i'm not really a rocker or fusion guy, more of a sorta jazzer . . . or something)
3. as todd says, the big e/baer combo was pretty amazing. kinda of a brilliant reese's cup thing.
4. the big e in the horizontal position does really interesting things with overtones. we spent a lot time listening to note decay and the overtones in a close-voiced triple stop (A-E-F). in the horizontal position, there was this sort of 3D thing that happened with different parts of the chord or overtones popping out. you'd hear a very high C# sorta fade up, then out; and the overtones from the E and F would cross each other so it almost felt like the notes were bending in the air. it was really almost eerie—or maybe like a flashback ;-) this was most pronounced with the monique in the minnie; it still happened then the puma was the power for the monique, but not to the same degree. i don't recall if we did it with the puma as the pre. i think if we did it didn't do the same thing—or a very slight version of it. this probably isn't what a lot of people would like, but it does speak to something about the cabs. (the overtones did NOT work the same way with the baers or either of the tc cabs.)
i can see why mike like the big e for upright.
i'll chime in on the cabalooza.
first, big fun (thanks todd—and thanks to your better half for dealing with a lot of loud lowend sound in the house for a number of hours).
what todd says pretty much is our consensus.
my addenda:
1. wish the baer could turn the small speaker (don't know the size) down a little as it's just a little too much for me. brilliant cab though.
2. the tc212 sounds great. too big/much for my needs. i like my tc112 fine and today made me think about getting another (as opposed to having a 212). if you need a very clean, loud cab with a lot of low end, the 212 could be something to look at. (i'm not really a rocker or fusion guy, more of a sorta jazzer . . . or something)
3. as todd says, the big e/baer combo was pretty amazing. kinda of a brilliant reese's cup thing.
4. the big e in the horizontal position does really interesting things with overtones. we spent a lot time listening to note decay and the overtones in a close-voiced triple stop (A-E-F). in the horizontal position, there was this sort of 3D thing that happened with different parts of the chord or overtones popping out. you'd hear a very high C# sorta fade up, then out; and the overtones from the E and F would cross each other so it almost felt like the notes were bending in the air. it was really almost eerie—or maybe like a flashback ;-) this was most pronounced with the monique in the minnie; it still happened then the puma was the power for the monique, but not to the same degree. i don't recall if we did it with the puma as the pre. i think if we did it didn't do the same thing—or a very slight version of it. this probably isn't what a lot of people would like, but it does speak to something about the cabs. (the overtones did NOT work the same way with the baers or either of the tc cabs.)
i can see why mike like the big e for upright.
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