• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Big E Speakers pt 3

Status
Not open for further replies.
#121
I know, I know. :hiding: I was never a believer in audible differences between amplifiers. At least at the pro level. In the home audio world years ago when I sold hifi you could hear subtle differences very quickly between mid range and high end gear. But it was really subtle, and we listened to this stuff all the time.

And I didn't buy it here either when I was told to use Ashly. Until I did an AB with several amps, crown, qsc, behringer. For development work I use a digmoda ICE amp with enormous dsp capablilities that's not cheap. $1400 amplifier, 1000w into 4 ohms. I bought a KLR200 to compare, and it was better. It was audible immediately, using the filtered outputs from the digmoda, so the processing was the same. The old school qsc 5500's (IIRC) I tried exhibited the same improvement. There are two more reasons we recommend Ashly, the Protea processor, and durability.

$500 power cables and $1000 interconnects. Oh dude, when I went to RMAF it was insanity. The amount of money being dropped on that stuff is just insane. I listened to home systems that were a half million bucks.

I get and appreciate your skepticism Ken. Been there done that. Still there doing that on some of the stuff that I just shake my head about.
 
#122
lelandcrooks said:
I know, I know. :hiding: I was never a believer in audible differences between amplifiers. At least at the pro level. In the home audio world years ago when I sold hifi you could hear subtle differences very quickly between mid range and high end gear. But it was really subtle, and we listened to this stuff all the time.

And I didn't buy it here either when I was told to use Ashly. Until I did an AB with several amps, crown, qsc, behringer. For development work I use a digmoda ICE amp with enormous dsp capablilities that's not cheap. $1400 amplifier, 1000w into 4 ohms. I bought a KLR200 to compare, and it was better. It was audible immediately, using the filtered outputs from the digmoda, so the processing was the same. The old school qsc 5500's (IIRC) I tried exhibited the same improvement.

I get and appreciate your skepticism Ken. Been there done that. Still there doing that on some of the stuff that I just shake my head about.
Click to expand...


Input gain level matching, hi passing, THD, other circuitry within a power amp, etc. all impact the what is coming out of power amps in subtle ways for sure. The class of the power amp, not so much.

+1 The hi end audio category is full of beliefs (i.e., hearing the difference in expensive power cables, 'burning in power cables', etc, etc.). I can see that if you are listening to this stuff in a solo setting, in-going 'expectations' (i.e., non blind testing) is a very powerful thing. Pretty hard to not hear a difference in that $1,000 power cable once you spent the $1,000, and read all the amazing claims of the manufacturer!

Also, easy to equate 'weight with sound' when you lift a piece of gear up prior to listening for sure.
 
#123
Mike Arnopol said:
This is an important observation I think. When you listen to most rock and roll in the 50's it's upright bass. When Fender came out with the electric bass he was trying to emulate the upright bass sound. Hence the mute foam.

It was interesting---a guy on the DB side did some RTA measurements of his upright unamplified. Not a whole lot under 100hz but a big rising peak starting at about 150hz to about 300 hz with a peak at about 225. (or so)

People always note that a pizz upright has a lot more "thump" than an electric bass. That thump and pitch definition are in the upper bass/lower midrange.

I'm not saying that an electric bass has to emulate the upright sound----I'm just saying that the upper bass/lower mid component is important as far as hearing yourself. A lot of guys like cabs that are accentuated in the mids (500 to 2k). They claim that they can hear themselves cut through the mix better. Which is true---you hear some of the attack and upper partials of the pitch---you can hear what you're doing.

I would rather get my pitch cues from the range of the bass more closely associated with pitch and get my rhythmic cues from the part that provides the "thump"---not as much from the mids . The mids are very important but I want to feel myself propelling the group. And it's the "thump" portion that provides that. Even with a "piano string" tone there still is that element---just not nearly as pronounced as in R&B and funk. Low bass doesn't provide that same thump---there is a rhythmic component that has to start and stop correctly---if not it can obscure anything happening in the next few octaves above.

You can definitely have too much upper bass/low mids----it can put a blanket over what's occurring in the next few octaves above that---not a good thing. The early 46's had too much there---they obscured the mids as a result.

I think that Dirt Poor found that those low mids gave more rhythmic power that was obviously noticed by other players.

I know the feeling---at home you think--maybe too much low mids. But you get on the gig and everything feels and functions better.
Click to expand...

This is one useful post - it nails down an understanding of eq balances that I've been flirting with for a while. Thanks!
 
#124
I just plugged in my MP3 player into the glock and Oh what a glorious sound came out of the big e cabs! It was way easier to hear how omni directional the sound is! I can almost stand behind it and the clarity is still there. This is the best recorded music I've heard, I'd say it's better than our really expensive Meyer setup the band uses. Very sweet.
 
#127
Mike Arnopol said:
That actually surprised me. We designed the Flex's from the ground up to be electric bass cabs.Keep the uber flat response for the hifi pussies! The Flex's are a man's cabinets!

Well it turned out thanks to the insanity of Steve and his cruel insistence of making the cabs even harder to make---they can do both.

Oh---and one other thing---they're GREAT at killing mice. Seriously---ran the 210's loud and voila--no more mice!
Click to expand...

Mike, if a person had a pair of Flex 110 & wanted to stack them, which way would be better (assuming they're both pointed in the same direction), top cab upsides-down w/ mid drivers in the middle or would you stack both right-side up?

I'm thinking two cabs for dual duty bass & home hi-fi thing (where you wouldn't stack them - doh).
 
#129
lo-freq said:
Mike, if a person had a pair of Flex 110 & wanted to stack them, which way would be better (assuming they're both pointed in the same direction), top cab upsides-down w/ mid drivers in the middle or would you stack both right-side up?

I'm thinking two cabs for dual duty bass & home hi-fi thing (where you wouldn't stack them - doh).
Click to expand...

I was day-dreaming last week about investing in a pair of the 2x5's for my home system. I'd have to change up the amp/receiver to a rig that could mix my bass signal with the other input signals. It would be fun!
 
#132
So I got some time in with the puma today. I cant say I've made a verdict yet, but I'm leaning towards the glock as the winner on electric. The puma was great don't get me wrong, but it had that "tube compression emulation" thing going on like the mark bass heads have, most love that though, my tone goals are a little different from that right now. I was also not able to dial in the clarity that the glock has, super clear without being harsh. And the biggest thing is how huge the glock sounds down low, and that's saying a lot since the puma slams down low too, the glock just does it better. I've just found the glock pairs really well with the big e cabs, they can put out a massive low end and has the best tweeter I've ever heard, so the clarity out of the glock is just glorious. I just wish the glock had a mid control at 1k, that's its one down fall. Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled program, the big e thread!
 
#133
Have you messed with the taste knob? That changes the character of the amp quite a bit. The thing I liked about the Puma over the Glock was the ability to tweak the upper mids if need be (both through the upper mid eq and the taste knob). The Glock is missing a control there. If your bass/cab/technique combination doesn't require tweaking there then you're set. If you do like to mess around there, then it can be a little tougher.

Both are great amps. I ended up keeping the Puma mostly based on the increased portability (it is my backup head) and the fact that I find the eq points to be perfect for the rest of my setup.
 
#134
I agree that the eq points are better on the puma, I did mess with the taste knob as well, lots of different tones in there. I can't rule it out yet, but initially, I didn't like that "tube emulation" thing going on in the mids, which does go away when you turn the taste knob down, but then it gets a little to harsh. To me the glock tone is clearer without being harsh and just hammers, for the high mids I need I just flip the switch on my fodera and boost the high mids, although I wish I could just do it on the amp. Still need more time with both, just my initial reactions right now. Either way, big e cabs all the way!
 
#138
It's true--if the Puma errs it's on the side of being just a bit tubey. Without the tube bloat.

The Glock is definitely a bit more detailed---but not at all dry . It's probably a bit better amp overall. About 3x as heavy and a bit bigger.

The Puma has more power.

It's weird--when I was at Tom Bowlus' I found the Reeves to be more detailed than the Puma. I still love the Puma---it is very practical. And as a package it suits my needs the best.

The amp I want to try is the Valkarie.(sp?)
While the switching amps are narrowing the gap---I still prefer A/B and some iron. I just don't want to haul 30# around.
 
#139
Yeah mike, that's what I like about the glock, it doesn't have that "give" at all like a tube amp has or the puma kind of has. No matter how hard I hit the glock, every note comes out with authority. The big e cabs sure help translate that! I'm in aural heaven! My guitar player still says I have the best sounding bass rig he has ever heard!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back