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Blew my 12".....AGAIN!!!!!

#381
mbelue said:
There is no way the OP replaced those 5 blown drivers in a vacuum. Someone gave him bad advice.
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Bigbri said:
I don't know what is meant by "in a vacuum." I was the one who asked about that. Some speakers with the dust caps pushed in. i was just confirming that I heard for a long time that a vacuum would work to get them back out. Someone said to put a sock over the hose which was good advice.
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I daresay @mbelue just meant "in isolation, without influence from the outside". I seriously doubt there was any reference to the thread subplot of "how to pull dustcaps back out"...although I couldn't rule out the chance of a hint of wordplay in "blown" vs. "vacuum"... ;)
 
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#382
Omega Monkey said:
Again, because it balances them out more.

But also again, I think the OP is basically wasting his time and money unless he either goes for a 15" sub, or 2 matching 3 way cabs.
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take a small tub of icecream. Serve a bowl to kid 1, then the remainder in bowl 2 but you didn't leave enough and kid 2 packs a screaming fit. Do you then scoop some back from kid one and throw it in the sink? No, you break out another tub of icecream from the freezer.
 
#384
mechanical power handling (respectively max. acoustical power) versus tuning.

Delta 12 LFC
white: cab tuning 38Hz (as suggested)
yellow: cab tuning 50Hz (rather balanced frequency response)
upload_2016-1-25_21-26-33.png

if both cabs where properly high pass filtered the 38Hz tuning lacks from mechanical power handling versus 50Hz tuning.

Delta 12 LFC at 50Hz tuning versus 3012LF at 38Hz tuning
white: 3012LF
yellow: Delta 12 LFC
upload_2016-1-25_21-38-33.png

Although the 3012LF provides nearly twice the Xmax of the delta 12LFC but if properly high pass filtered then max. acoustical power is nearly the same.
Of course the 3012LF provides more of low end content but, with a 4 string bass guitar that doesn't really matter.

For completeness 3012LF at 45Hz tuning
upload_2016-1-25_21-46-5.png

perfectly balanced
 
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#387
mbelue said:
I really hate how bi-amping is represented by bass players. It just makes us look dumb.

The only amp your average bass player should be bi-amping is a GK 800rb. GK was smart enough to keep the hi side of the amplifier @100w so the 300w low side would have even a chance to keep up.
Your bx1500 may very well be a great amplifier, but it is a stupid choice for simple biamping.
The same goes for every biamp head with identical poweramps, Ampeg, Peavey, etc. Every single one is a loaded gun pointed right at our speakers.

We bass players just never pick the right cabinets to do the job. Generally it ain't our fault. Wet go to mom and pop music stores with our hard earned cash and get bad advice. Or we ask a guitarist, and get bad advice. We need education, and we need it simplified so one short conversation can lead folks to the proper path to learn something.

You can't approach a subject as deep as biamping with the plan to ignore all the details. The proof is right here in this thread:
1. The OP tried it, sounded great till a driver blew.
2. The OP went out and blew the rest of his money on the wrong drivers before learning the root of his problem.
3. The OP cannot affort to correctly solve his problem because of point number 2.

It's just sad. The OP wanted to do something awesome, and dammit he has every right to, and nobody was there to lead him in the right direction.

This whole blasted industry really needs to grow up. Start educating customers instead of milking their wallets with operator error. Give their customers reasonable expectations of the usage and output of their products.

To top things off it's embarrassing that Talkbass can't discuss this without bickering, but we've a whole boatload of misinformed bass players. Bass players that don't know they are contributing to the problem. Bass players that don't know they've been mislead.
:rage:

There is nothing wrong with being ignorant. Nothing to be embarrassed by or ashamed of. Use that moment to learn something instead of just repeating "what you've heard."
There is no way the OP replaced those 5 blown drivers in a vacuum. Someone gave him bad advice. Don't be that guy. Please. We can and should all be friends here. Friends don't let friends blow up their cabinets in ignorance.
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Is this what they call "tough love"? Or have you just had too much caffeine?
 
#396
hey all...OP here......Just an update.

I recieved the Kappa 12LFC that I originally ordered and intended to replace with the 3012, but opted to NOT spend the extra money and see how it sounded. I also Blocked off one of the ports on my Avatar B112, to see if it tuned the cab lower, as suggested earlier in the thread. Here's what I discovered.

The Avatar B112 with the extended range woofer sounds really quite good, alone in full range. When I added the 4x8, keeping the set up full range on both cabs, It sounded.....worse. The two cabs blended in full range doesn't jive. This outcome was similar to the results from the earlier config with the prior Faital NEO 12 in the AVATAR which was a mid bass woofer.

Also, A/B'ing the Avatar in full range vs the 4x8 in full range....the Avatar sounds much better. The comparison really showed the full range of the B112 with the extended frequency capability of the LFC, and possibly port reduction.

Lastly...and I know I'm gonna hear a bunch of "I told you so's" , but the Avatar alone sounds better than the rig in BiAmp mode. I understand all the excitement conveyed by so many posters regarding fearless, and other $1000+ single 12 cabs. The Avatar sounded like a different cab than it used to be ( and rightly so, lower frequency driver and port reduction)

But here's the next problem.

I gigged the Avatar 112 alone this weekend in a typical rock trio setting ( I run a Karaoke band so the repotoire is very diverse) and even at 4ohms, with gobs o wattage, ( which I made a point NOT to overuse) The cab doesn't have enough Volume for some of the songs. Rather than add the 4x8, I think I'll get another identical Avatar 12 and use that when I need more volume. And use them full range. Hopefully, someday I'll have the funds and situation to permit purchase of some of the great cabs discussed here. For now, I'll get a more modestly priced cab, and likely put the drivers in it that the more expensive cabs use, sometime after. For now the Kappa LFC in full range really sounds sweet.

It would appear my days of BiAmping are over ( for now).

Everyone's been very helpful, and there's been alot of passion in most of the responses. I never imagined I would spur such a polarizing topic.

You guys are great, and thx for all your input.

Pete.

Invalid Link Removed
 
#400
David Jayne said:
He's suggesting that when you installed the new speaker you may have reversed + and -. If you do that, there will be a big reduction in low end using the two cabs together.
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I do not run the cabs connected together. They are on different/completely separate outputs, but the short answer is no. Speaker is wired correctly
 

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