The knobs & switches were all the same. Everything about the two basses is the same, except of course the wood.
Read my most recent observation with two SR300E.
Read my most recent observation with two SR300E.
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body wood does matter
- Thread starter Killed_by_Death
- Start date
I have heard the tolerances are wide enough in electronics to make a (tonal) difference, but am not equipped to test that.
I am open to the possibility of solid body wood affecting tone, and being into acoustic instruments, I "want to believe". But the evidence does not lead in that direction, at present. All we have is anecdote and feelings. The hard data tends to show fairly conclusively that body wood has no effect.
If that were true, designing anything would be moot. Electronics (incl. p/ups) are typically manufactured to certain specs and documented. Hand wound p/ups have looser tolerances and would show more variability.
BTW The hard data that you mention is soft as the system of vibration relies on how the body affects the resonance of the strings. The bridge and the nut link the system to the body and does affect how the strings vibrate. What is really debatable is the amount the body affects the system, IMPE it matters a great deal. If the type of wood used in a barrel affects the flavor of the whiskey, why can't you believe it affects the tone of the instrument?
The pickups are wound on a machine with the same AWG of wire & the same number of turns. I can't imagine there being much variance.
My latest acquisition has more output than its same model predecessor, but somehow is brighter.
Normally if a pickup is wound hotter, it loses some highs.
So I'm still inclined to believe it's the wood making the difference.
My latest acquisition has more output than its same model predecessor, but somehow is brighter.
Normally if a pickup is wound hotter, it loses some highs.
So I'm still inclined to believe it's the wood making the difference.
Actually it is good data, and its the only hard data I know of. In multiple tests, it is shown that the surface the bridge is mounted to does not affect string vibration, as we would expect. Heavy physics becomes involved, showing how the sound wave is not affected by the wood composition. It is counter-intuitive, but this is how science often goes.
Hard data for your side of the argument would be something that could be replicated and measured, such as : maple bodies accentuate higher frequencies (as it does in acoustic construction) If it were true, we could say it as a fact. But we can't, because we can compare maple bodies to plywood, and in controlled experiments like that, there is no difference in tone. This is what I mean by "hard data" = controlled experiments.
I would be happy to see controlled experiments where solidbody tonewood effect on electric signal is confirmed, rather than disproven. I am not aware of any such experiments, and the longer this debate goes on, the worse it looks for the solidbody-tonewood crowd.
It is of course completely possible that the right experiment hasn't been tried yet.
My only point is that the more rigorous experiments disprove solidbody tonewood. All the anecdote in the world cannot counter that.
Do you think the solidbody is making the output hotter? Or does it seem the difference in output is more likely due to electronics?
I tend to think the latter: there was something wrong with the first bass's electronics. I may be on the wrong track thinking pickups or pots, but your observation of a different output level does not suggest body wood to me.
Bass on!
He said the knob responded more noticiably when using an ash body... Not that ash and alder sound different at the same setting
Before I go back into hibernation again..............
I bought a Fender "Anyone Can Play Bass" packages for my wife once upon a time.
This was 'way before I started building my own.... but it was cute - fire engine red and had a small amp, a strap and very little else - OH -- it had a VHS tape on "How To Play Bass" or words to that effect, so there you have it - it was a VHS tape, so it had to be a while back.
I actually hated that bass from day 1. It was corny-sounding, not even good enough to be on that 6 or 8 inch cabinet. I put it back into it's gig bag (Oh yeah - it has a gig bag too in the 'kit'), and shoved it under the bed.
Fast forward ten years or so and I took it to Guitar Center in Murrietta Springs, CA and attempted to trade it in for a real bass.
The guy (Mike, last initial is "M") said: "Wait a minute, let me have it and I'll be right back".
I thought he was gonna take it to the manager for a laugh and to see what they could allow for trade-in dollars. He came back in 30 minutes or so and handed me the bass and he said: "Play it".
Gawd! Was it ever sweet! He had changed the strings to Roto Flats, reset the neck and lowered the action. He told me to NOT trade it in, but just outright buy another bass if I wanted, but this one was (seriously) a great bass as it just seemed to talk to him and all it needed was some TLC.
I still have that Fender Squier Affinity P-bass and the same strings on it - now over a decade old, and it is one of the sweetest basses I own.
What's the body wood? Who in hell cares. It sounds fantastic, if wood even meant anything in the first place.
What's the neck wood? Again - who the hell cares. It's straight, has excellent fretwork and doesn't have a ski jump. Any acoustic quality means nothing because if you can hear it it won't get to the amp anyway. So there!
How about the p'ups? Well - ya got me there - as one of the P-pups died, so I replaced them with some Peavey Furys that are very nice and rich-sounding and somewhat more powerful than the original Fender Squier p'ups it originally had.
What about the pots? Again - these are original - the ones that everyone runs out and gets some new gold-standard CTS versions because "Those da#ned cheap-a$$'d small pots are junk" fanboi attitude takes over and they get off'd before the guitar even gets played.
What about the jack - surely IT'S gotta be junk, being Chinese and all"! Nope. It's original although I gave the spring side of it a slight tweak to make it somewhat tighter. It's all good.
Well - surely it's that cheap Chinese wire that you've gotta replace with cotton push-back to make it REALLY sound good! Yeah - go out and buy lots of that 'cause I bought just stock in a Legacy Cotton Covered Push-Back Wire Factory.
What about the red color? Surely that's gotta make it sound all wonky" Again - that kinda logic is the same as....
You guys will believe anything that costs money. I'd laugh my head off if this post isn't full of wood factory trolls, just getting your jaws tight to make you go out and buy something that is unobtanium ---> good sounding wood.
Keep searching. Keep spending. Keep worrying.
Now - if we are after GOOD TASTING WOOD - well.... we've got a whole new criteria for arguing about what wood came outta a 1844 Wine Cask, built from apple trees from the north side of a hill in Greece that was planted before the Crimean War.
Does this bass taste good? I dunnow. Go suck on it a while and get back to me.
I bought a Fender "Anyone Can Play Bass" packages for my wife once upon a time.
This was 'way before I started building my own.... but it was cute - fire engine red and had a small amp, a strap and very little else - OH -- it had a VHS tape on "How To Play Bass" or words to that effect, so there you have it - it was a VHS tape, so it had to be a while back.
I actually hated that bass from day 1. It was corny-sounding, not even good enough to be on that 6 or 8 inch cabinet. I put it back into it's gig bag (Oh yeah - it has a gig bag too in the 'kit'), and shoved it under the bed.
Fast forward ten years or so and I took it to Guitar Center in Murrietta Springs, CA and attempted to trade it in for a real bass.
The guy (Mike, last initial is "M") said: "Wait a minute, let me have it and I'll be right back".
I thought he was gonna take it to the manager for a laugh and to see what they could allow for trade-in dollars. He came back in 30 minutes or so and handed me the bass and he said: "Play it".
Gawd! Was it ever sweet! He had changed the strings to Roto Flats, reset the neck and lowered the action. He told me to NOT trade it in, but just outright buy another bass if I wanted, but this one was (seriously) a great bass as it just seemed to talk to him and all it needed was some TLC.
I still have that Fender Squier Affinity P-bass and the same strings on it - now over a decade old, and it is one of the sweetest basses I own.
What's the body wood? Who in hell cares. It sounds fantastic, if wood even meant anything in the first place.
What's the neck wood? Again - who the hell cares. It's straight, has excellent fretwork and doesn't have a ski jump. Any acoustic quality means nothing because if you can hear it it won't get to the amp anyway. So there!
How about the p'ups? Well - ya got me there - as one of the P-pups died, so I replaced them with some Peavey Furys that are very nice and rich-sounding and somewhat more powerful than the original Fender Squier p'ups it originally had.
What about the pots? Again - these are original - the ones that everyone runs out and gets some new gold-standard CTS versions because "Those da#ned cheap-a$$'d small pots are junk" fanboi attitude takes over and they get off'd before the guitar even gets played.
What about the jack - surely IT'S gotta be junk, being Chinese and all"! Nope. It's original although I gave the spring side of it a slight tweak to make it somewhat tighter. It's all good.
Well - surely it's that cheap Chinese wire that you've gotta replace with cotton push-back to make it REALLY sound good! Yeah - go out and buy lots of that 'cause I bought just stock in a Legacy Cotton Covered Push-Back Wire Factory.
What about the red color? Surely that's gotta make it sound all wonky" Again - that kinda logic is the same as....
"What type of wood is it made from?" - and anyone ending a sentence with a preposition tells me that this is not an educated person - so it gets no answer from me.
You WOOD MATTERS guys can agonize all over the place here and worry if the best wood you can buy is gonna make your bass the Godzilla Of All Basses in your arsenal. It won't matter a fig's worth.
You guys will believe anything that costs money. I'd laugh my head off if this post isn't full of wood factory trolls, just getting your jaws tight to make you go out and buy something that is unobtanium ---> good sounding wood.
Keep searching. Keep spending. Keep worrying.
Now - if we are after GOOD TASTING WOOD - well.... we've got a whole new criteria for arguing about what wood came outta a 1844 Wine Cask, built from apple trees from the north side of a hill in Greece that was planted before the Crimean War.
Does this bass taste good? I dunnow. Go suck on it a while and get back to me.
Your 'hard data' is reminiscent of 'statistics,' as you provide no data at all but you still talk of this 'hard data.' In my personal experience I have noticed a difference. So, I speak from experience and do not quote data that I have not experienced myself.
Source? I'm interested the "heavy physics." On the surface of the argument, if it doesn't matter what the wood is, why does hollow construction matter?
Yes...
...but I would expect that to manifest as longer sustain with upper partials lasting longer during that envelope, rather than just 'louder', although I suppose the perception might be the same...
I didn't start this thread to say everyone must buy the most expensive wood they can.
My original comparison was between Alder & Ash.
I'm sure there are plenty of Alder basses out there that sound better than some Ash basses & vice versa.
You can sometimes find a great-sounding bass in a cheap instrument, but one of the reasons why you don't always get what you paid for is because of the variances in the wood.
Just this past weekend I bought a cheap Ibanez that sounds almost as good as it's more expensive (5x) sister.
That being claimed, I also owned a bass of the same model over the Summer, made from the same woods & hardware that didn't come very close at all to the more expensive bass, even with new strings.
I haven't even changed the strings on my new acquisition yet, & I'd almost bet it's still got the factory D'Addario's on it.
I've also compared other Ibanez basses of the same model to my SR Premium & mine just sounds better. It especially sounds better to BTB models with the same pickups.
I'm blaming it on the wenge/bubinga neck, which just adds extra springiness to the attack.
BTW, those Premium basses come with Elixirs from the factory, so claiming it's worn out strings on the other basses holds less water.
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Used to think so but now not so sure
Bought two Squiers both Agathis or whatever its called, same Duncan PU's. One was a bit heavier with a slightly narrower body thickness but with a thicker neck..yep the heavier one sounded tons better...sold the light one kept the heavy one.
Bought two Squiers both Agathis or whatever its called, same Duncan PU's. One was a bit heavier with a slightly narrower body thickness but with a thicker neck..yep the heavier one sounded tons better...sold the light one kept the heavy one.
You should have swapped the necks on them to see if one came out even better.
Turnaround
Commercial User
In his study "The Physics of Vibrations and Waves", H.J Pain from the Department of Physics at The Imperial College of Science and Technology in London describes the effects of mass and inductance coupling and how the vibrations are affected by the coupling. In our terms that translates to how the vibration of the string is affected by coupling it to the rest of the bass.
Another good source for understanding string vibration characteristics in coupled and non-coupled systems can be found here:
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Neither of these is an easy read, they do describe in scientific terms the effect of the substrate on the vibrating string. But I know that there will be a number of people who will not accept these findings because the test equipment wasn't an electric bass. Perhaps some scientist will re-invent the wheel by repeating these tests with a Fender Jazz. I rather doubt it though.
