Boutique Basses are Better: Get Over It!

[PBass101]

The right bass line played with feel and timing =90%

The right instrument=10%

I'd amend that last part to say "the right instrument with the right setup." A cheapie with a great setup will play better than, say, an Alembic with the strings an inch and a half off of the fretboard and mis-adjusted intonation. (But how often do we see that?)

And even then, who is willing to setlle for 90% when you can have 100%? Especially when you can afford it comfortably?

Also, let's not make the argument that "the audience doesn't care about boutique and therefore it doesn't matter what you're playing." It's not just about what the audience does or does not care about.

 

[KJung]

+1,000!!! I've been using an Affinity J-5 until I pick another bass comes in, and truly, it gets a nice Jazz tone with both pups on, but the 60 cycle hum is always noticeable, and it gets horrible if I solo a pickup, it is even pretty bad with the tone completely off.

Um... let's not confuse 'single coil hum' with 'quality'. Single coils will hum when solo'd... period. Of course, a well made bass with great shielding will help a bit, but again, that's kind of a separate issue. And, if you get hum with two single coils dimed, then there is probably an installation issue that can be fixed (ground wire off, etc.).

All my fancy pants basses are single coil and will hum when one pickup is solo'd. This isn't an indication of 'quality', and any bass, from the cheapest to the most expensive, can be made totally quiet by installing a hum cancelling pickup. Of course, there is a price to pay for that in that you will not get a true single coil tone, but that is a good trade-off for many.

Lot's of 'interesting' comments on what separates or doesn't separate high end basses from lower level basses

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Um... let's not confuse 'single coil hum' with 'quality'. Single coils will hum when solo'd... period. Of course, a well made bass with great shielding will help a bit, but again, that's kind of a separate issue. And, if you get hum with two single coils dimed, then there is probably an installation issue that can be fixed (ground wire off, etc.).

All my fancy pants basses are single coil and will hum when one pickup is solo'd. This isn't an indication of 'quality', and any bass, from the cheapest to the most expensive, can be made totally quiet by installing a hum cancelling pickup. Of course, there is a price to pay for that in that you will not get a true single coil tone, but that is a good trade-off for many.

Lot's of 'interesting' comments on what separates or doesn't separate high end basses from lower level basses

KJung, I've been playing jazzes a very long time, and there is hum and then there is hum like I'm experiencing on this Affinity. A better shielded instrument would not hum like this one does. I have two J-style basses on the way, and promise you that neither will hum like the Affinity I'm using at the moment.

To put it in perspective, that white Fender Jazz 5, that I was a bit too quick to sell (story of my life) had nowhere the level of hum when the pups were soloed, and the hum pretty much disappeared when I turned down the tone knob.

 

[NKUSigEp]

12 pages in...

I think the biggest problem we face is there is no clear definition of "boutique" when we're talking about basses. Some of the younger and/or less-aware bassists may view the $1k Ibanez models as boutique just because it's got a relatively large price tag. Some might view Wishbass as boutique because of their appearance and small-scale production. Good luck!

 

[Dr. Cheese]

12 pages in...

I think the biggest problem we face is there is no clear definition of "boutique" when we're talking about basses. Some of the younger and/or less-aware bassists may view the $1k Ibanez models as boutique just because it's got a relatively large price tag. Some might view Wishbass as boutique because of their appearance and small-scale production. Good luck!

That is confusing. I tend towards a "big tent' definition. I would argue that a boutique is a bass made by a small operation that involves a lots of hands on work. These basses tend to be expense. Almost all are over $2,000 with most between $2,500-$4,000.

Large companies like Fender, Peavey, Warwick, and Yamaha, have models that are made on order at boutique style operations which produce basses comparable to genuine boutiques. I think $4,000 Warwick Streamers and $3000 Yamaha Nathan East Signatures do add to the confusion.

Heck Custom Shop Cirruses with Hipshots and Millennium style mid controls approach boutique status too.

 

[KJung]

KJung, I've been playing jazzes a very long time, and there is hum and then there is hum like I'm experiencing on this Affinity. A better shielded instrument would not hum like this one does. I have two J-style basses on the way, and promise you that neither will hum like the Affinity I'm using at the moment.

To put it in perspective, that white Fender Jazz 5, that I was a bit too quick to sell (story of my life) had nowhere the level of hum when the pups were soloed, and the hum pretty much disappeared when I turned down the tone knob.

+1 My point was directed more toward the poster you were responding to, who was talking about a Fender humming.

However, even with the bass you are talking about, a trip to the luthier could probably get that bass quieter with about 50 cents worth of foil and a check of the grounding/wiring, etc. If you are hearing loud hum when both pickups are dimed, then IMO something is wrong other than it is a cheapo

 

[KJung]

12 pages in...

I think the biggest problem we face is there is no clear definition of "boutique" when we're talking about basses. Some of the younger and/or less-aware bassists may view the $1k Ibanez models as boutique just because it's got a relatively large price tag. Some might view Wishbass as boutique because of their appearance and small-scale production. Good luck!

+1 The better way to talk about this is price point.... i.e., what will an extra $2,000 get you. Even then it is difficult, because if you talk about it purely in terms of tone, an extra $2,000 might get you an instrument that sounds just like a 77 J bass. Or, if you are talking about pure aesthetics, it might get you burled walnut, wooden knobs, and a crappy sounding instrument... or anything in between!

 

[DeluxeRed]

KJung, I've been playing jazzes a very long time, and there is hum and then there is hum...

Thanks, Doc. Yeah, the one I'm talking about just gets nasty noisy at anything off "top dead center". It's just a cheap bass with cheap electronics. At the time I bought it, all I could afford was a cheap bass, and I knew what I was getting. I tried the MIAs, etc, at the time, and was fully aware of what I was compromising. It wasn't a suprise, and telling the difference wasn't rocket science.

 

[KJung]

Thanks, Doc. Yeah, the one I'm talking about just gets nasty noisy at anything off "top dead center". It's just a cheap bass with cheap electronics. At the time I bought it, all I could afford was a cheap bass, and I knew what I was getting. I tried the MIAs, etc, at the time, and was fully aware of what I was compromising. It wasn't a suprise, and telling the difference wasn't rocket science.

+1 Again, shielding, and total attention to those type of details (dead spots, noise, even string to string tone, full sound without heavy weight, etc., etc.) is one of the things you tend to get at the high end.

The good news with noise, a lot of times a very cheap bass can be made much quieter with some simple sheilding, etc., which was my point. I agree, right off the rack, there are a lot of problems at the low end of the category. Dead spots, uneven balance between strings, thin tone when played acoustically... you are pretty much stuck with that. Noise can often be reduced to acceptable levels, even in very low end single coil instruments. IMO and IME there.

 

[DeluxeRed]

I'm sure it could be tweaked and upgraded...or, I can let someone in the FCS shop do the research and charge me more for one that has already been upgraded. Fortunately, those upgraded electronics tend to come with great necks and really fine paint jobs attached, as well.

I own way above my ability...for now. I am striving to be worthy, and I hope to get there. My basses want me to: they keep going "You can do it! I'm here for you!".

 

[fretno]

sometimes a bass just has it , taps foot... waitng for the Linc Luthier

 

[johnnydi]

I've own many many fender since i started playing 26 years ago. Most of them were Jazz Basses. From completely original 62' jazz to brand new 2008 Jazz. So I prefer JB model basses. Some of the basses I've own were great some were crappy.

Back in the 80's, I was looking for a new bass and was trying every jazz bass I could put my hands on. Then someone told me about this guy in New York. Amazing Luthier. Roger Sadowsky. I did a little research to find that the guy was making exactly what I was looking for. A Jazz bass that is just that. A Jazz bass. But the difference was that he was putting a lot of attention in the choice of the wood he would use and build the best jazz bass he could build. Unfortunately the price was way too much for me so I bought a great 68 fender jb for $800.

Twenty some years later and still playing everyday and I assume a much better player. I was still thinking about the red Sadowsky Will Lee was playing on Letterman.

So I decided it was time for me to give it a try. So I found Sadowsky's phone# and called. Guess who answer the phone? Yes, the man himself and we talk about options for 15-20 minutes. I was amaze. The guy talk to me like I was Will Lee or something.

So I ordered a 4 string jb and when I got it I was blown away by the quality and craftsmanship put in the instrument. This bass play so well, it was my dream come true.

But guess what? The bass sounded like a Jazz Bass and felt like a jazz bass. It was just the best jazz bass I've ever played.

Then after that. whenever I would got gig and needed 2 basses. I would take my Sadowsky and A cool 70's Fender Jazz. The problem was whenever I would switch from the sad to the fender, I would not cut through the mix as much and every body in my 10 piece funk band noticed. So I try everything to make it right but in the end I just call Roger and order an other Sadowsky and I know exactly what I'm gonna get.

Now I assume that anybody who bash on the boutique basses is either not good enough of a player to see the difference or never owned one or didn't find the right luthier for them.

Now all this doesn't mean I don't like Fender. Its just the opposite. I love Fender. That's why I want to play the best JB out there.

 

[mstott25]

There're just too many boutique agnostics out there that know about fit and (therefore) can have an optimal experience with a "lesser" instrument than there are examples of the reverse for me to really believe it.

I could be wrong, but I havn't heard anything that convinces me yet.

LS

Ken's exactly correct. Just try for a second to apply this idea to other areas of life. Does Lance Armstrong grab any Trek from the local bikeshop before he races Tour de France? Do construction workers grab the first hammer they see in Ace hardware? Do cops/military say - just hand me a gun, any will do!

No matter what craft you choose to devote a large part of your life to -be it music, art, sport or whatever - you are going to develop a certain set of preferences, likes and dislikes.

There's not just 'boutique' basses - there's boutique bicycles, boutique pistols, boutique tools, hell there's boutique watches.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I've own many many fender since i started playing 26 years ago. Most of them were Jazz Basses. From completely original 62' jazz to brand new 2008 Jazz. So I prefer JB model basses. Some of the basses I've own were great some were crappy.

Back in the 80's, I was looking for a new bass and was trying every jazz bass I could put my hands on. Then someone told me about this guy in New York. Amazing Luthier. Roger Sadowsky. I did a little research to find that the guy was making exactly what I was looking for. A Jazz bass that is just that. A Jazz bass. But the difference was that he was putting a lot of attention in the choice of the wood he would use and build the best jazz bass he could build. Unfortunately the price was way too much for me so I bought a great 68 fender jb for $800.

Twenty some years later and still playing everyday and I assume a much better player. I was still thinking about the red Sadowsky Will Lee was playing on Letterman.

So I decided it was time for me to give it a try. So I found Sadowsky's phone# and called. Guess who answer the phone? Yes, the man himself and we talk about options for 15-20 minutes. I was amaze. The guy talk to me like I was Will Lee or something.

So I ordered a 4 string jb and when I got it I was blown away by the quality and craftsmanship put in the instrument. This bass play so well, it was my dream come true.

But guess what? The bass sounded like a Jazz Bass and felt like a jazz bass. It was just the best jazz bass I've ever played.

Then after that. whenever I would got gig and needed 2 basses. I would take my Sadowsky and A cool 70's Fender Jazz. The problem was whenever I would switch from the sad to the fender, I would not cut through the mix as much and every body in my 10 piece funk band noticed. So I try everything to make it right but in the end I just call Roger and order an other Sadowsky and I know exactly what I'm gonna get.

Now I assume that anybody who bash on the boutique basses is either not good enough of a player to see the difference or never owned one or didn't find the right luthier for them.

Now all this doesn't mean I don't like Fender. Its just the opposite. I love Fender. That's why I want to play the best JB out there.

Nice story.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

Is it not safe to say that MOST handmade boutique basses are better constructed then MOST factory made basses?

Yes, indeed it is.

Sound is in the ear of the beholder though.

 

[T-MOST]

Is it not safe to say that MOST handmade boutique basses are better constructed then MOST factory made basses?

Yes, indeed it is.

Sound is in the ear of the beholder though.

Thats it in a nutshell. GAME OVER.

 

[rcarraher]

Sorry, I like stirring the pot. You guys are right. You can definitely tell the Sadowsky when you play it. I'm basically looking for an excuse to play someone's Sadowsky for an hour

And I thought you were gaming to play someones SX

 

[rcarraher]

You point is valid though. Similar to the automobile thing, where it is true that a Chevy will get to you work in about the same time as a Ferrari. Just depends what is important to you... maximum cost efficiency in getting the job done, or a bit extra which can cost a LOT EXTRA

Now there's a comparison that lacks merit; he Chevy vs Ferrari thing (unless its a Vette). S.O. drives a Chevy, for her last b day she said that she wanted something shiney that went from zero to 150 in three seconds. So I bought her a bathroom scale. And then the fight started.....

 

[rcarraher]

I think MOST times the guys crying that a boutique isn't worth the $$ and that their Sx "is every bit as good" as a Sadowsky or A.C (after $500 in mods) are jealous. Jealous that they can't have one and feel bad everytime they hear someone gushing over their Boutique. Hey, I can't afford a 80K Mercedes but I know it's still nicer than my Saturn (which is actually very nice)! But I'm not knocking the guy with the Mercedes. Yes they both get me from point A to point B, have AC, power everything and a nice stereo but thats not the point. Some folks like things a little nicer than they "have" to be. Get over the sour grapes guys.

I traded in one of those 80K Mercedes on a Jeep GC. Not that I didn't like the 420SEL, it was the most luxurious comfortable car you could imagine, and had surprising performance. But it was getting up there, 420,000 miles and was going to be needing a trany rebuild, engine work, and the paint was going fast after 22 years. Those things aren't cheap on a Mercedes but the deciding thing was I live on a mountain and the 420 wasn't four wheel drive and didn't come off the mountain very well in the winter!

Also, when I bought the Mercedes, I was shopping for a Jeep. 17 years later, I got one. Still wished I hadn't taken the $8K in trade in for a 22 yo Mercedes. Should have garaged it and fixed it up......

 

[rcarraher]

You are using a VERY limited definition of boutique. Remember, all that boutique means in the technical sense is a relatively small batch producer that typically has the 'founder' directly involved in the manufacturing... resulting in, by definition (i.e., lack of economy of scale in production, purchasing and distribution), high prices/cost.

Regarding hits.... MANY of the relatively recent modern country and pop hits were recorded with Sadowsky basses, Lakland basses, Ken Smith basses, (and Fenders and Music Man basses, of course) etc. Boutique has NOTHING to do with a specific tone, but rather small batch, quality made instruments with more detail and emphasis put on construction, assembly, quality of components, set-up, etc.

If Stanley Clarke's Alembic tone (one of the worst IMO in the history of bass playing) is the first thing that comes to mind in a 'boutique' discussion, then we are talking about VERY different concepts here

Edit: To give Alembic, the 'father all all boutiques' its due after my snarky Stanley comment above, check out Jimmy Johnson's work with James Taylor. That has to be among the best recorded bass tones of all time to me, and it sounds just as good coming out of the mains in a live setting (check out James Taylor live.... THAT is a bass tone, and Jimmy's true front of house tone sounds very similar to that 'through the board live tone' on that wonderful disc.... IMO!).

Just a reminder to all the boutique haters and lovers. Sadowsky makes some very good basses, but how did he start out? He made his name, not building basses but in modding, customizing and improving on Fender J's for some of the great pros. He became so good at this that he started building his own basses, and even now the lions share of his basses are modeled after Fender J's. In other words, he was so good at taking standard, off the shelf basses and turning them into boutique basses. So good that he could finally build his own boutique basses.

That should be an encouragement to you guys modding your SX'x and Squires as well as something to appreciate for us Boutique fans.