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Branford Marsalis' take on students today

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#141
To you I say, how many of your peers had as much discipline as you do now when you were 20? I think its a matter of people who have lived life looking at the younger generation and saying tsk tsk tsk instead of thinking back to how they were when they were younger, you say your a 48 year old military vet? Obviously these 20 year old civilian children will appear to have no discipline to someone with your background, I just think you cant lump a whole generation of people into one box cuz some dont act like you think they should, my 2c.
 
#142
abngourmet said:
I'm 48 years old. Just wanted that up front.

I retired from the Army after a 20 year career. My next career of choice will be in the culinary/hospitality industry.

To that end, I enrolled at the New England Culinary Institute in Montpelier, Vermont two years ago. I did this because, as many here have noted, a degree is required to get one's foot in the door in any number of professions or endeavors (regardless of age, I might add). I also felt that a formal education would teach me the correct way of doing things in a professional kitchen as opposed to the wrong way (and believe me, as I learned during two subsequent internships at restaurants, there is a wrong way). I didn't want to learn bad habits, and I wanted to learn as much as I could from the excellent chef-instructors I studied under.

Most of my peers were 30 years younger than me, some less than that. Here are the things, generally speaking, that I noticed about the young people I went to school with as a group.

1 - Many had no discipline at all.
2 - Many didn't understand the concept of punctuality (initially, at least - once they were sent home from class by the Chef, they figured that out pretty quick).
3 - Few had a sense of responsibility - either for themselves or others.
4 - Many were downright unprofessional in and out of the kitchen. By this I mean in appearance (dirty uniforms, unshaven, shoes not polished, etc., which goes against what is stated in the Student Handbook), demeanor (language, leaning on something when they should be cleaning, talking back to the Chef with no reason to do so, etc.), and attitude (did not take criticism well, felt they should be given something as opposed to working for and earning it).
5 - Many put in the minimum effort to graduate/pass a class. Many felt that because they showed up, they should get an A.
6 - Some were openly disrepectful to both their peers and instructors (the instructors dealt with that, for the most part fairly quick).
7 - Many had no clue how bad of an example they set for others and for the community they lived in as students. I literally saw a kid come into the cafeteria the school runs, dressed up like the Joker from a recent Batman movie. He looked like, well, a clown. Everyone knew he was a NECI student, and it made us all look like idiots. Others would show up in the cafeteria wearing their wrinkled pajamas - this is fine in your own home kitchen, but not in a place where, like it or not, you are representing the school you attend.
8. Many had no patience whatsoever. What they wanted, they wanted now, and didn't feel they needed to either wait or work for it.

Were there exceptions? Certainly. I met some very hard working, dedicated and focused young men and women while there, and I'm proud to call them my friends. But, unfortunately, they were in the minority.

It would be easy to blame their parents for such things, but I believe, at a certain point, a person needs to take responsibility for themselves.
These kids were raised the way they were raised, and perhaps it didn't prepare them for the things they face today. But, at some point, they need to man/woman-up and accept the fact that life isn't going to be like it was at home.

I understand that the challenges young folks face today are far different than those faced by my generation. But this doesn't excuse bad attitudes, behavior, demeanor, academic performance, personal responsibility, and respect for others. To me, these attributes apply to any generation, past, present, or future.

Frankly, I think Marsalis is spot on. Parents should stop coddling their kids - the world, quite frankly, is not fair. Not everyone gets to be Victor Wooten, Marcus Miller, or Stanley Clarke. Not everyone gets to be President, a CEO, or a rockstar. You're not going to be told you're doing a good job if you aren't. This doesn't mean people can't have a great and fulfilling life by any means. It does mean that young folks, IMHO should worry less about instant gratification (that Marsalis alludes to here) and more about working hard to be the very best they can be given the talents, skills and gifts that they have.

To those who note that things are "harder" today than they were in the past (need a degree, have student loans to pay off, tough job market, etc., etc.) I'll say this - you can look at them as either challenges or excuses. Those who succeed in my experience view them as challenges, develop a plan to overcome them and execute it. Those who view them as excuses, well, let's just say that in my experience these folks don't do so well. As the saying goes, if you're not part of the solution you're a part of the problem. In other words, if you're not actively taking these challenges on to the best of your ability and working hard to overcome them, you have only yourself to blame.

For the record, I left college (in the late 80s) with about $6500 of school debt (at a public college). I'll leave this one with about $10K (gotta love the post 911 GI Bill!). Most of my peers will leave with far more than that, and that's very unfortunate. However, as posters have noted, that is the world we live in now. It doesn't make it necessarily right, and it sure doesn't seem fair, but it is what it is. My advice to young folks is simply this - the sooner you stop seeing the world how you think it should be and view it instead as it really is, the sooner you will move ahead and succeed in life. Pursue your dreams, seek your ideals, but be prepared to surmount many challenges along the way without complaint if you wish to meet your goals.

My two cents,

Alan
Click to expand...

You are a genius!:D Thanks for the post!
 
#143
Time Consumer said:
I just think you cant lump a whole generation of people into one box
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He didn't lump a whole generation of people into one box. He did mention the ones that he felt were doing what it takes to get from point A to point B with out a lot of bs in the process.

Time Consumer said:
cuz some dont act like you think they should, my 2c.
Click to expand...

Well the ones that are not studying, being disrespectful,thinking what they want should simply be given to them because they think they are entitled to it,



what are they contributing?
 
#144
Time Consumer said:
To you I say, how many of your peers had as much discipline as you do now when you were 20? I think its a matter of people who have lived life looking at the younger generation and saying tsk tsk tsk instead of thinking back to how they were when they were younger, you say your a 48 year old military vet? Obviously these 20 year old civilian children will appear to have no discipline to someone with your background, I just think you cant lump a whole generation of people into one box cuz some dont act like you think they should, my 2c.
Click to expand...

Can't the kids at least have enough respect to actually learn from their "elders"?
Where els can they get it from?
 
#145
John Wentzien said:
Can't the kids at least have enough respect to actually learn from their "elders"?
Where els can they get it from?
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As a few including myself have said already in this thread, the baby boomers have kinda dropped the ball on the parenting side of things. These kids who are in school now are learning from their peers and teachers cuz they either had inadequate parenting or none at all. I was lucky enough to have parents that cared enough not to coddle me and taught me right from wrong and how the world works before I got to college, I see what Marsalis talks about in my peers every day, but its cuz they didnt have good "elders" to learn from but they are learning it, just later than the past generation. Thats why I think its not as big a problem as we make it out to be.
 
#146
Just as a public service announcement, anyone who has found themselves complaining about kids today:

You are officially old.

It's okay, and I understand. In fact I first realized I was old much earlier than I thought I would. Around my 3rd year of teaching or so when I was 26.

Wthin EVERY generation is a widely held belief that the next one is lazy, disrespectful, selfish and generally lacking.

The more things change . . .
 
#147
Believe it or not, a good 'ol boy from down South, I am firmly in agreement that all kids/all folks in general, should shoulder their aspirations/goals and work like hell to make them a reality. Plus, the Marsalis boys(as in good 'ol boys) are from Tallahassee, I jus gotta back'em all the way..ya dig..cheers
 
#148
Time Consumer said:
As a few including myself have said already in this thread, the baby boomers have kinda dropped the ball on the parenting side of things. These kids who are in school now are learning from their peers and teachers cuz they either had inadequate parenting or none at all. I was lucky enough to have parents that cared enough not to coddle me and taught me right from wrong and how the world works before I got to college, I see what Marsalis talks about in my peers every day, but its cuz they didnt have good "elders" to learn from but they are learning it, just later than the past generation. Thats why I think its not as big a problem as we make it out to be.
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There are PLENTY of "baby-boomers" willing to share their knowlege.....the promlem is (IMO) nobody is LISTENING...

or turn them off so much they just can't spare the "coddling" time .....life is short!
 
#149
Time Consumer said:
As a few including myself have said already in this thread, the baby boomers have kinda dropped the ball on the parenting side of things. These kids who are in school now are learning from their peers and teachers cuz they either had inadequate parenting or none at all. I was lucky enough to have parents that cared enough not to coddle me and taught me right from wrong and how the world works before I got to college, I see what Marsalis talks about in my peers every day, but its cuz they didnt have good "elders" to learn from but they are learning it, just later than the past generation. Thats why I think its not as big a problem as we make it out to be.
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Not having good elders is not the only reason they are the way they are. Some are the way they are because they choose to be that way. Some youth just do not listen to anything a person that they think is old has to say.
 
#150
JAUQO III-X said:
Not having good elders is not the only reason they are the way they are. Some are the way they are because they choose to be that way. Some youth just do not listen to anything a person that they think is old has to say.
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Touche, yeah, I guess this is true too, but my generation didn't invent rebellion either, alls im sayin is the generation before you was probly having the same dialogue about you, I know that argument has been beat to death but its true. I just dont think its as bad as you think, but maybe my opinion on the issue has been skewed since most of the people I know and hang with are responsible youngsters such as myself.
 
#151
Time Consumer said:
To you I say, how many of your peers had as much discipline as you do now when you were 20? I think its a matter of people who have lived life looking at the younger generation and saying tsk tsk tsk instead of thinking back to how they were when they were younger, you say your a 48 year old military vet? Obviously these 20 year old civilian children will appear to have no discipline to someone with your background, I just think you cant lump a whole generation of people into one box cuz some dont act like you think they should, my 2c.
Click to expand...

As to the discipline, I will say that most of my peers, at the age of 20, had jobs, showed up on time, etc. Most of them were working their way through college, and had to have discipline if they were to graduate. I don't suggest that it isn't this way with today's students, but, if I had to judge based on the sample I saw at school, discipline is lacking.

Speaking for myself only, I've had a job since the age of 15. I showed up on time and did my work as best I could. I went on interviews in a suit and tie. When a supervisor called me on something, if I was wrong I admitted it and took my lumps. These are the things I saw lacking at school - folks who didn't show up on time (and, of course, didn't call), showed up to class/work out of uniform, took offense rather than criticism when criticized (to help make them do better, BTW).

Also, note that I'm not lumping a whole generation of folks, merely commenting on what I saw in one place, with that set of people. However, if one were to extrapolate that small sample as representative of today's younger generation, many of the points I and others have made may indeed ring true.

I still think Marsalis is right, though.
 
#156
John Wentzien said:
Oh...

Its BAD!
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:)


Some people in this thread are acting like it's wrong to say that some youth today really don't want to work for anything.


They just don't want to accept that that is how it is with some youth.


It's like me telling some one that rape in prison really does happen sometimes. But because they didn't get raped while in prison then it does not happen.
 
#157
JAUQO III-X said:
:)


Some people in this thread are acting like it's wrong to say that some youth today really don't want to work for anything.


They just don't want to accept that that is how it is with some youth.


It's like me telling some one that rape in prison really does happen sometimes. But because they didn't get raped while in prison then it does not happen.
Click to expand...


There is an important word in the post I am quoting, and it has shown up in many posts before ... Some.
But it is All, some seem to read into it..;)

Just like in real life it is the "famous some" that tend to trag "the unfortunate all" into the mud, no? :)
Further 2c :-)
 
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