Broke Down and bought a DI

[seamonkey]

Agreed, this warning will be included in all of my/our future product manuals that use BTL class D technology... thanks to the reminder by the TB community.

Why support anything that's not a passive speaker being hooked up to the output of the amp? Especially since new class-d power output can be very high voltage and current - it's not safe hooking up anything else.

When you think about it, there's no advantage, DI from the pre-amp is in the feedback path from the output of the amp to the input (properly isolated) and thus any speaker interaction is part of the pre-amp DI output.

The DI itself should be properly isolated and not subject to any normal voltages that could be on the line like phantom power.

Anybody can add a transformer to the ID circuit. Or gee, add some extra EQ to the DI only out.

I'm sticking with the Milbert assertion that if transformers are so good for sound why not do these things have 3 or 5 transformers in them?
Yeah, sure, only 1 is needed to add all the magic, but me I prefer that pre-amp add the magic, and I'll black-box it and don't care what's inside if it's the sound I want.

 

[JimmyM]

Joe Louvar said: ↑
Seriously, the cheap DI boxes (like the IMP-2) sound like junk compared to the Radial, Countryman, and etc... However, would anyone hear the difference during a gig through most cheap club PAs... most likely not.

Wow, Joe, you said that? Ain't I learned you better than that? Trust me, even in a cheap club PA, you can tell the difference.

 

[Pimmsley]

Joe Louvar said: ↑
Seriously, the cheap DI boxes (like the IMP-2) sound like junk compared to the Radial, Countryman, and etc... However, would anyone hear the difference during a gig through most cheap club PAs... most likely not.

Wow, Joe, you said that? Ain't I learned you better than that? Trust me, even in a cheap club PA, you can tell the difference.

I'm with you Jimmy, I do a small amount of live and studio mixing and these days I really am impressed with the quality of modern FOH systems, even the little ones in tiny bars... But this also means more transparent and more accurate, which can also reveal noise, artefacts and poor quality source/sounds/instruments/playing, and on the flip side, excellent quality source/sounds/instruments/playing. I think more than ever a quality DI can be appreciated by an audience (wether they realise it or not) and noticeable to me, and also easier when you start with a good sound... 20 years ago in pubs/bars/clubs not so much as the cheaper consoles and systems themselves were pretty noisy and unless the place really invested in their FOH system, pretty common around these parts.

 

[Joe Louvar]

Ha, yep I said it, but I have a good DI too.

 

[Downunderwonder]

@ Will, where does the GK growl kick in, before or after the fx loop?

 

[BazzTard]

I liken it to guitar cables.

Sure, I can buy one for $10, and it WILL do the job. It may pick up noise, it WILL break down, one day.
Why risk it when I can spend $50 and get a really good quiet one that will last much longer?

It's not like I buy cables every week.

Same with DIs, the more you spend the longer it will last.You don't have to spend $750 on a REDDI, but it will be better than my $150 Dbx, which is better than a $40 IMP.

 

[JimmyM]

Now I'll spend $750 on a DI but cables are something I spend as little as I can get away with. I lose them way before I break them. I've had these two 20 ft Samson cables that cost like $30 for a 2-pack for 6 or 7 years now (which is a record), and they're still going strong. They're not the most bomb-proof cables out there, but they're professionally built and reliable. And for pedals, I buy those molded 1-ft cables you get for like $10 for a bag of 6. In 5 years of using them, I've only had one break.

 

[BazzTard]

I bought a cheap cable, plugged it into my brand new ME50B and the tip of the cable broke inside the ME50B. Luckily a magnetic 'pick-up" tool did the trick first time. By cheap I mean really cheap, never buying another thing from that brand.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Now I'll spend $750 on a DI but cables are something I spend as little as I can get away with. I lose them way before I break them. I've had these two 20 ft Samson cables that cost like $30 for a 2-pack for 6 or 7 years now (which is a record), and they're still going strong.

With a name like Samson, the cable has got to be strong. You apparently can't cut the shag on it though. Levy's makes a shag strap, it must be strong as well.

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[agedhorse]

Same with DIs, the more you spend the longer it will last.You don't have to spend $750 on a REDDI, but it will be better than my $150 Dbx, which is better than a $40 IMP.

IMO and IME, THIS is not accurate.

In my pro audio touring rigs, I have some mid level passive DI's (<$100) that are 30 years old, I also have some Countryman active DI's (~$150) that are probably 25 years old. This is in a touring situation where they probably have 2000 shows on them.

In general, you are paying more for increased "performance", "personality", "marketing" and "availability". As long as the performance and personality are suitable for tha application, and they are available (some parts of the world, everything is much more expensive), then marketing costs are purely optional.

 

[will33]

@ Will, where does the GK growl kick in, before or after the fx loop?

The Boost control/circuit comes after the preamp but before, or at the input of the power stage.

On some, the xlr DI doesn't have that sound in it, but the 1/4" line level out jack does....weird.


You have a good bass cab mic, so just use that.

 

[will33]

IMO and IME, THIS is not accurate.

In my pro audio touring rigs, I have some mid level passive DI's (<$100) that are 30 years old, I also have some Countryman active DI's (~$150) that are probably 25 years old. This is in a touring situation where they probably have 2000 shows on them.

In general, you are paying more for increased "performance", "personality", "marketing" and "availability". As long as the performance and personality are suitable for tha application, and they are available (some parts of the world, everything is much more expensive), then marketing costs are purely optional.

+1

I could argue that this cheap Whirlwind we're discussing here might well be the most reliable, longest lasting DI of them all, seeing as it's completely passive, only has 4 parts in it (actually only 1 if you don't count jacks), and despite being low cost, is in a plenty sturdy case.

Mine probably last as long as I do.

 

[JimmyM]

With a name like Samson, the cable has got to be strong. You apparently can't cut the shag on it though. Levy's makes a shag strap, it must be strong as well.

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Must----have---purple----shag---

 

[chadds]

I recently spent months tweaking the sound of one of my basses. Got it EXACTLY where I wanted it. Playing in the band, it may as well have been a Squire with old strings. The subtle nuance is just not apparent in the mix...

Then the problem is something else.

Are your fellows putting out bad muddy or shrill tone? Has the drummer ever tuned his drums? Does he play them or beat them? Even the 1x15 & horn cabs by reputable manufacturers can sound quite nice when not over driven. Did the sound tech have any experience before? Do they know what good sound is? Do the singers eat the mics? Is their balanced gain staging on the board or even on a PA head? All of these and much more are why sound can be bad. Doesn't matter if it's a huge system or sound on a stick.

 

[vmabus]

Then the problem is something else.

Are your fellows putting out bad muddy or shrill tone?

Yes, 6 trumpets...

 

[will33]

Yes, 6 trumpets...

Wow. That's almost as challenging from an audio engineers perspective as 6 banjos.

 

[will33]

With or without the superior damping qualities of purple shag...or even feather boa.

 

[Munjibunga]

Joe Louvar said: ↑
Seriously, the cheap DI boxes (like the IMP-2) sound like junk compared to the Radial, Countryman, and etc... However, would anyone hear the difference during a gig through most cheap club PAs... most likely not.

Wow, Joe, you said that? Ain't I learned you better than that? Trust me, even in a cheap club PA, you can tell the difference.

Maybe true, but your audience can't.

 

[will33]

Maybe true, but your audience can't.

Audience may not be able to pin the difference on a $750 DI as opposed to a $75 one, but they sure as hell know the difference between "alright" sounding and "really good/professional" sounding.

I've been one here to say "the audience won't know the difference" when it comes to some of this highend gear stuff, like boutique DI's or amps/speakers, etc., and truth is they won't.

But they sure as hell can tell the difference between a group of hobbyists playimg the cheapest stuff they can find that makes noise as compared to good musicians using good gear.

Hell, they can even hear how much better good musicians using crap gear are than not-so-goid musicians are using expensive stuff.

 

[Munjibunga]

Audience may not be able to pin the difference on a $750 DI as opposed to a $75 one, but they sure as hell know the difference between "alright" sounding and "really good/professional" sounding.

I've been one here to say "the audience won't know the difference" when it comes to some of this highend gear stuff, like boutique DI's or amps/speakers, etc., and truth is they won't.

But they sure as hell can tell the difference between a group of hobbyists playimg the cheapest stuff they can find that makes noise as compared to good musicians using good gear.

Hell, they can even hear how much better good musicians using crap gear are than not-so-goid musicians are using expensive stuff.

I doubt your last comment.