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Brutal open Acoustic jam experience

#122
Other side of the coin:

The organizers of an acoustic event aren't obligated to backline the stage any further than for acoustic guitars and vocals.

If electric bass isn't a fit, so be it. Their sand box, their rules, no need to be upset about it.

Best thing to do is have a chat with whoever organized the event and backlines the stage, ask if you can bring a small combo next time. Accept whatever answer you get graciously.
 
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#124
JGbassman said:
Yea, I should have been clued in when it was billed as "acoustic".

I have a good friend that I've known for years, in fact he was the guitarist in my first band. He has had his share of self induced bad knocks, and struggles with alcoholism. He is on disability, and all he really has left in his life is his music. He has been sober for many months now, and honestly I'm very proud of him. I get together with him about once a week lately, where we are working up some songs, him on acoustic guitar, me on fretless bass. He still has chops and can sing, but it's nothing serious, and I'm really doing this to give him something to live for and stay sober. We have talked about working enough material up to do a show, I'm super busy, but it if keeps him sober, I'll put the time in for him.

Now that you know the background, tonight he invited me to a jam, where we would get up and do a few songs. I agree, and meet him at the bar the jam is being held. I get there before him and have the fretless with me. I notice a few mics, a monitor, and the acoustic guitars are going direct. Hmm.

Long story short, the set up is not equipped to run an electric bass, and honestly I don't think they cared. I tried running direct, but they wouldn't put me in the monitor, which was overpoweringly loud with guitar and vox, so I had no way to hear myself play. I could have fudged it on a fretted, but not on a fretless. I tried playing about half a song, but I bowed out and took a seat. My friend played about four songs before he was done.

I felt bad leaving the stage, but with the organizer not wanting to work with me and playing a fretless, where I absolutely have to hear the notes, it was just left a bad taste in my mouth. It was obvious they weren't set up to have electric instruments, or just didn't want them. It was a very folky, bob Dylan feel for the rest of the hour I stayed. To top it off, there were some really, really bad players and singers that got up after us. Yikes.

My friend wants to go back next week (he is a semi-regular there I guess). And said he will bring a little amp for me to play through. I reluctantly agreed, forcing a smile.

My main issue is I felt because I was not playing an acoustic guitar, I wasn't really welcome. Im not a Prima Donna by any means, but this jam was well beneath my pay grade, if you will. The fretless bass and acoustic guitar play very well with each other, and over hundreds of acoustic shows I've played over the years, those two instruments alway fit together. I didn't feel there was any need for the underlying attitude.

I will do this for my friend next week, but it's going to be brutal. I've never been to a jam where I got the feeling that other instruments weren't welcome, but I sure did tonight.

Sorry for the rant, this just really bugged me tonight. I guess I will pay more attention to the word "acoustic" next time.
Click to expand...

Ever consider playing an acoustic bass?

Sound guy sounds like an donkey. I probably would not have played at all if you can't hear....
 
#127
jive1 said:
My 2 cents: Whoever is running the sound is being a jerk.
There is absolutely no reason why the bass can't be run in the monitors. If they are afraid that the bass will blow the speaker, they can cut the lows so that the players can hear the note and articulation. You don't need subwoofer lows to hear yourself. And honestly, an amplified acoustic can put out alot of bass frequencies too.
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Having run PA's in 3 rehearsal rooms and for bands in clubs. I've been thinking this for 6 pages now. I'm glad you finally said it. I would never hesitate to put a little bass, at levels appropriate to match to an acoustic guitar, in the most humble of PA's. Even with passive cross-overs and those little foster tweeters you find in Crate and Carvin level PA's, you can hear when the tweeter starts to complain before real damage is done.
 
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#128
It's no biggie though... Some people like to be "purist." It's obvious you stepped into one of those scenarios. Now ya know... Stick to your guns. If your friend wants you to do it, bring what YOU need to acquiesce to his needs. I.e. an amp, or corner the sound person and get a feel for how he's going to act. I suspect that, if you tell him most of what you mentioned in your opening post, then they might be of help...

If not, then show up and be supportive ... as long as necessary... ;)
 
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#129
lermgalieu said:
That's really weird. I haven't read all the thread, but how did they expect to handle even a truly acoustic instrument like a double bass? With a mic? Whether with mic or direct, they would need to put it through the monitors. Seems really poorly thought out.
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These were some of my thoughts as well. I was informed this jam had been going on for a while, and I found it odd that it seemed a surprise to the organizer when I asked for my instrument to be in the monitor. She had no issues plugging me into the pa, just the monitor, which easily could have have handled my bass.

I got the vibe it was all about singers and acoustic guitar themed songs. If this is what they want, that's cool. I was there to support my friend, not to ruin their folk party. I just felt as an outsider to a private party. I'll go back next week with a small amp and try it again for my bro. If I get any flack about playing bass or bringing a small amp, I'll just make sure it's my last gig there, and move on to greener pastures. No big deal.
 
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#130
JGbassman said:
I can make my way around an upright. It's just cumbersome, hard to transport,and just not my favorite. I honestly don't have the time to invest into learning to play it well, and then there is the cost...
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I went to a local acoustic jam recently - VERY old school. Fiddles, mandolins, guitars, etc., with most players >60yo, and one guy in his 80s. I brought my ABG and played without an amp. I thought I was going to fit in until they made it clear that acoustic bass=upright bass. I won't be back...
 
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#131
Max Blasto said:
Por su puesto.

Si un pedante le gusta prescribir lo que is correcto a otros personas, no significan que la aplicación en el mundo se ajusto a su opinión.
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Buen español pero debes saber que "su puesto", el participio de suponer, to suppose, es una palabra en lugar de dos. Hay algunas otras problemas pero no son graves, y el español es perfectamente entendible.

Claro que todo sonido en una forma u otra, es acústico. Es decir, si se puede oírlo, hay que existir en el espacio acústico.

For my mono-lingual friends. All sounds are acoustic. If you can hear it, it exists in the acoustic space.
 
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#132
Road Hat said:
I went to a local acoustic jam recently - VERY old school. Fiddles, mandolins, guitars, etc., with most players >60yo, and one guy in his 80s. I brought my ABG and played without an amp. I thought I was going to fit in until they made it clear that acoustic bass=upright bass. I won't be back...
Click to expand...

Now that's strict...
 
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#134
jive1 said:
My 2 cents: Whoever is running the sound is being a jerk.
There is absolutely no reason why the bass can't be run in the monitors.
Click to expand...
This. I read a suggestion earlier that if you couldn't use your Rumble 15, it explains why the tech might be unwilling to run you through the monitors. However, the OP stated that they were 'pro level' monitors. Any decent monitor can handle hundreds of watts and running a bass loud enough to hear in this setting would be no problem. Even a crappier monitor would work fine for the levels you would have needed.
 
#135
tradernick said:
This. I read a suggestion earlier that if you couldn't use your Rumble 15, it explains why the tech might be unwilling to run you through the monitors. However, the OP stated that they were 'pro level' monitors. Any decent monitor can handle hundreds of watts and running a bass loud enough to hear in this setting would be no problem. Even a crappier monitor would work fine for the levels you would have needed.
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And that was the exact case. The monitor was a JBL with a 12 driver, and obviously up to the task of running a little bass through it. Honestly, if they would have just turned the guitars down a bit things would have been a lot easier to deal with. My guess is they really didn't know much about their equipment, and every acoustic these days has an eq and volume built in, so they can crank them up if they want. I don't know, I tried to get along with everyone and not cause an issue
 
#136
tradernick said:
Even a crappier monitor would work fine for the levels you would have needed.
Click to expand...
I've done gigs where I had a little Hotspot with a 6" speaker as my monitor. Sure, there was no low end, but that's what the FOH is for. As long as I could hear my articulation for pitch and timing in the monitor, I was good.
Right now, I'm playing for the children's ministry at my church using a bass made out of a cardboard box, slat of wood and weed whacker strings. I amplify it using a little Bluetooth speaker. Works fine for that setting.
 
#137
jive1 said:
I've done gigs where I had a little Hotspot with a 6" speaker as my monitor. Sure, there was no low end, but that's what the FOH is for. As long as I could hear my articulation for pitch and timing in the monitor, I was good.
Right now, I'm playing for the children's ministry at my church using a bass made out of a cardboard box, slat of wood and weed whacker strings. I amplify it using a little Bluetooth speaker. Works fine for that setting.
Click to expand...

I agree, I wasn't looking for volume, and I didn't need it. I need to hear my intonation playing the fretless. A single bridge pickup on a passive jazz with flatwounds strings isn't going to be super bassy at all. Very burpee and Jaco like.
 
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#138
JGbassman said:
A single bridge pickup on a passive jazz with flatwounds strings isn't going to be super bassy at all. Very burpee and Jaco like.
Click to expand...
I agree.
I'm more likely to blow the speaker with my maple body acoustic guitar with the bass boosted than you would with that setup. Depending on how I play, I can easily get into kick drum territory and throw enough plosives to drive any soundman crazy and make his compressors run home to mommy crying. The insanity of the situation is that of all the instruments that could be amplified at that gig (acoustic guitars, vocals, upright, ABG, violins, etc.), a passive bass would be the easiest to mix. If I were the soundman that regularly had to work with feedback culprits like acoustic guitars and basses, an electric bass would be a welcome change.
 
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#139
A while back I took a master class with one of the top fretless players. He said that he often travels by air with just his bass, and plays all kinds of weird spaces, so he can't always guarantee that he will have a good monitor mix and be able to hear himself well. The moral of the story, fretless players should not be afraid to look at the fret lines or use a digital tuner to play in tune. Live music is unpredictable but the show must go on. Heck, there have been a few times my bass was unplugged or totally inaudible, but I stayed on stage and played air bass!
 

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