Yeah power consumption would be 140w. I don't think that changes with the input voltage but I could be wrong. But using that Mesa above it says 400w at 110 or 220.
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Bugera Bass Combo Amplifier who has played them?
- Thread starter rtslinger
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- amplifier bass combo bugera combo
Yeah power consumption would be 140w. I don't think that changes with the input voltage but I could be wrong. But using that Mesa above it says 400w at 110 or 220.
So a estimated guess from those in the know on the peak & RMS Watts you could get from this combo.
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The cab I have is rated "2000w" but I think it's a lie haha. I wouldn't put even a quarter of that through it. As it is though it sounds good and seems built well enough
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
The power consumption spec is required by the safety agencies to be the minimum of 1/8 rated audio power (using RMS voltage at the lowest rated load impedance) OR higher IF the amp is designed to deliver a duty cycle greater than 1/8 average power (12.5%) and intended to be operated that way. For example, many of the bass amps that I design are designed AND INTENDED to be operated at a higher than 12% duty cycle (typically between 25% and 40%) so the input power must reflect this.
Doing the math (this works with any power amplifier that carries safety agency ratings)
Estimate an overall amplifier efficiency (let's call it 85% which is pretty good for class D)
Multiply the listed power consumption by the efficiency and you get the average power consumed by the audio (less the losses)
Divide this by the average power factor used (best case is 1/8-power) and this will get you close to the rated audio power in RMS terms.
Using the numbers you guys provided:
140W x 0.85 = 119W
119W/0.125 = 952 watts "RMS" This is the best case based on international safety agency standards approvals.
To answer the second question, in the case of the Subway the average power consumed is listed as 400 watts, but I know that the rated duty cycle is much higher than 12% and just as importantly it is rated to deliver this as well as intended to do so (as mentioned in the owner's manual regarding being acceptable to overdrive with the limit LED flashing on as much as 25% of the time) so we don't use the 12% power factor but instead closer to 40%.
Doing the math (this works with any power amplifier that carries safety agency ratings)
Estimate an overall amplifier efficiency (let's call it 85% which is pretty good for class D)
Multiply the listed power consumption by the efficiency and you get the average power consumed by the audio (less the losses)
Divide this by the average power factor used (best case is 1/8-power) and this will get you close to the rated audio power in RMS terms.
Using the numbers you guys provided:
140W x 0.85 = 119W
119W/0.125 = 952 watts "RMS" This is the best case based on international safety agency standards approvals.
To answer the second question, in the case of the Subway the average power consumed is listed as 400 watts, but I know that the rated duty cycle is much higher than 12% and just as importantly it is rated to deliver this as well as intended to do so (as mentioned in the owner's manual regarding being acceptable to overdrive with the limit LED flashing on as much as 25% of the time) so we don't use the 12% power factor but instead closer to 40%.
Okay thanks for the education on this subject. I greatly as I am sure others who may have been not aware of these values and formulas used to obtain this information appreciate your taking the time to share this knowledge with us all. Rob aka RTS
From the Sweetwater page
Bugera Bass Guitar Combo Amps | Sweetwater.com
It looks like they reworked the Behringer BX series like the ones I've got(yeah, 2 of those are here), added a compressor.
If one takes care of it, the 15" version would provide a bit more "umph" and last.
The 12's here get plenty loud but the real trick to using the kickbacks is to use them as a "clarity monitor" and let the PA subs do the heavy lifting on the low end. My son used his BX1200(12") in a large auditorium for a high school jazz band concert. It worked but low end was lacking. The Peavey TKO 65's here(he used one in marching band, worked well at marching band volumes) with 15's sound much better in a larger space with no PA support. The older Peavey combos get fairly loud and are built like tanks.
PS: I use a hand truck for the Behringer BX1200 and the Peavey's.
Bugera Bass Guitar Combo Amps | Sweetwater.com
It looks like they reworked the Behringer BX series like the ones I've got(yeah, 2 of those are here), added a compressor.
If one takes care of it, the 15" version would provide a bit more "umph" and last.
The 12's here get plenty loud but the real trick to using the kickbacks is to use them as a "clarity monitor" and let the PA subs do the heavy lifting on the low end. My son used his BX1200(12") in a large auditorium for a high school jazz band concert. It worked but low end was lacking. The Peavey TKO 65's here(he used one in marching band, worked well at marching band volumes) with 15's sound much better in a larger space with no PA support. The older Peavey combos get fairly loud and are built like tanks.
PS: I use a hand truck for the Behringer BX1200 and the Peavey's.
It's useless to talk about "watts" in any case since this combo can't support any external speakers.
Combos like this with an internal speaker only should drop the "watts" rating entirely and just list measured SPL
Combos like this with an internal speaker only should drop the "watts" rating entirely and just list measured SPL
You'll find a lot of Behringer/Bugera haters here. The minute they see those names they lose their sensibilities and become irrational.
There are many reasons why, suffice to say the Music Group brought a lot of this on itself. Having said that, they seem to make some good products.
I've owned a few Behringer/Bugera products over the years. Had their Bugera Class D amp and sent it back. Had their Ampeg HE115 Clone and gave it to some kids at a local church. I sent back a Bugera 12 combo. It was very heavy and clumsy to move.
The company produces a lot of mass produced amps that are inexpensive and great jump off points for starting musicians. I think their guitar amps are reaching true pro quality but I don't feel they really have anything on the bass side I would use. I had a BVP5500 that I enjoyed but it seemed very heavy for its output and its tone was not impressive. Now, there are many here that have them and swear by them. In this day and age I don't feel a need to carry that kind of weight around.
I don't feel the Bugera combos deliver their promise. I think they're improving and close to making very good stuff.
I like the GK combos. Better than combos I like separate speaker/amps setups. Gives you more versatility.
Good luck.
There are many reasons why, suffice to say the Music Group brought a lot of this on itself. Having said that, they seem to make some good products.
I've owned a few Behringer/Bugera products over the years. Had their Bugera Class D amp and sent it back. Had their Ampeg HE115 Clone and gave it to some kids at a local church. I sent back a Bugera 12 combo. It was very heavy and clumsy to move.
The company produces a lot of mass produced amps that are inexpensive and great jump off points for starting musicians. I think their guitar amps are reaching true pro quality but I don't feel they really have anything on the bass side I would use. I had a BVP5500 that I enjoyed but it seemed very heavy for its output and its tone was not impressive. Now, there are many here that have them and swear by them. In this day and age I don't feel a need to carry that kind of weight around.
I don't feel the Bugera combos deliver their promise. I think they're improving and close to making very good stuff.
I like the GK combos. Better than combos I like separate speaker/amps setups. Gives you more versatility.
Good luck.
You live in a densely populated area? Hit some music stores and bring your bass. If you are drawn to the Bugera stuff give it a try. It might be just what you were looking for. They are a great deal for the price. But you might run into some musician snobs that will look down on you for using it. You don't need that kind anyway. By the way, all the Behringer Bugera stuff I used over the years none of it ever "burned up" or just died on a gig. More interweb myths.
Thanks I was asking these questions because of what I had read about it not being what it claimed it was by verified buyers who reviewed it. As I had mention I saw the incredible price point and I have been in need of something that could handle an out door show with or without PA support. that gives me more control of my tone compare to our power amp.
I have a Behringer BDI21 that has taken the space on my pedal board and my Sans Amp 3 channel is now the backup not because it is better they sound pretty damn close to me, but extremely affordable to replace. I am doing 3 or 4 gigs a month so my gear is loaded and unloaded a lot in a year so, I have found that my Behringer BDI21 can take the pounding and still go strong for about 4 years now. and if it blows up today I can jump on Amazon and have it tomorrow for a little over $30.00. As for trying it out I went to GC and try out some serious wattage amps but you can't tell from that and they won't let you push it to the volume you need to, to see if it starts throwing stuff off the shelves
They need a sound booth where you can go in and crank stuff up. So that is why I turn to the internet for reviews
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Thanks I was asking these questions because of what I had read about it not being what it claimed it was by verified buyers who reviewed it. As I had mention I saw the incredible price point and I have been in need of something that could handle an out door show with or without PA support. that gives me more control of my tone compare to our power amp.
I have a Behringer BDI21 that has taken the space on my pedal board and my Sans Amp 3 channel is now the backup not because it is better they sound pretty damn close to me, but extremely affordable to replace. I am doing 3 or 4 gigs a month so my gear is loaded and unloaded a lot in a year so, I have found that my Behringer BDI21 can take the pounding and still go strong for about 4 years now. and if it blows up today I can jump on Amazon and have it tomorrow for a little over $30.00. As for trying it out I went to GC and try out some serious wattage amps but you can't tell from that and they won't let you push it to the volume you need to, to see if it starts throwing stuff off the shelves
So that is why I turn to the internet for reviews
You can buy Bugera/Behringer from Amazon or Musicians Friend, or even zZounds Sweetwater, and especially Sweetwater has an outstanding "No Questions Asked" return policy. I'd be interested to hear what you thought of the newest Bugera 12" and 15" combos. Avoid the aluminum speakers though. The paper speakers are Turbosounds, one of the most respected sound companies in the world.
I'm glad there are qualified people talking about this. The BS wattage ratings these days are such a fad/scam....whatever you want to call it. Players justify this nonsense by thinking they are getting a billion watts of headroom. I remember running a 350W head with a 4x10 in my club days and being able to rattle everything within a city block.
Even if those ratings were true RMS....like anyone needs 2000 watts to play the corner bar. Spinal Tap numbers if you ask me!
I recently came across Bugera amps for the first time while doing some research on a practice amp. I was quite surprised at their claimed output rating. I had no idea at first that they were a Behringer product. I'd have thought they would have gotten past that sort of crap sales tactic.
I'm not a Behringer hater at all and some friends have had some of their PA gear which has worked fine for many years. Their acquisition of some very respected companies should improve their products and going by most reports the Midas designed preamps in their digital desks are pretty good.
With the Bugera amps having actual Turbosound speakers that part at least should be good.
The online store reviews are good but as happens with budget priced gear it is usually purchased by people stepping up from their first crappy little bedroom amp so anything will sound good to them.
I'd be interested to hear from a very experienced bassist who can set aside most of their biases as to how good these sound. Unfortunately i don't think that person exists. Most people who have the experience and financial ability to use and own high-end gear have trouble even admitting to themselves when a budget piece of heart is actually good.
I'm not a Behringer hater at all and some friends have had some of their PA gear which has worked fine for many years. Their acquisition of some very respected companies should improve their products and going by most reports the Midas designed preamps in their digital desks are pretty good.
With the Bugera amps having actual Turbosound speakers that part at least should be good.
The online store reviews are good but as happens with budget priced gear it is usually purchased by people stepping up from their first crappy little bedroom amp so anything will sound good to them.
I'd be interested to hear from a very experienced bassist who can set aside most of their biases as to how good these sound. Unfortunately i don't think that person exists. Most people who have the experience and financial ability to use and own high-end gear have trouble even admitting to themselves when a budget piece of heart is actually good.
The Music Groups TC Electronics heads are far more advanced on the pre-amp side for those that like to switch sounds. And they don't cost a fortune more. Even before TCE was part of music group many questions were raised about their power ratings.
It's just that all All bass amp makers aren't giving the full truth on power ratings. And just because one maker claims lower wattage and act like their rating is conservative, it doesn't mean they aren't also Feeding everyone a line of bull.
In the future Music Group has Lab Gruppen, Klark Teknik, Midas, ... all made in the same factory. And I bet they're moving towards components that can be intermixed - just like the rest of technology industries.
Behringer mixers sell with "Midas Pre-amps" in the ad copy. Turbosound sell with Klark Teknik processing, ...
I'm really looking forward to the next generation of amps from The Music Group. Amp ratings may still be bogus but wow - this stuff has some great potential!
It's just that all All bass amp makers aren't giving the full truth on power ratings. And just because one maker claims lower wattage and act like their rating is conservative, it doesn't mean they aren't also Feeding everyone a line of bull.
In the future Music Group has Lab Gruppen, Klark Teknik, Midas, ... all made in the same factory. And I bet they're moving towards components that can be intermixed - just like the rest of technology industries.
Behringer mixers sell with "Midas Pre-amps" in the ad copy. Turbosound sell with Klark Teknik processing, ...
I'm really looking forward to the next generation of amps from The Music Group. Amp ratings may still be bogus but wow - this stuff has some great potential!
Update: Behringer BX1200(aluminum speaker) "gave up part of the ghost" after years of thrashing. Still functional but distorted a bit(probably the speaker). IF it is the speaker, I'll replace it with a Hartke or other 12. If it's the amp(not likely, they usually let their smoke out), I'll put a Class D box where the Behringer is.
Got a Bugera BXD12A(aluminum speaker) as a replacement, MUCH better control of the audio with a pad, input clip indicator, and compressor that works. As with the Behringer, this is mainly used for mids/highs with a severe bass cut as a right side spot monitor at my vocal mic/pedal board area. I get tons of lows from FOH subs and the drummer's monitor. LOVE the compressor as it will make the speaker last longer.
PS: Ordered a BXD15(paper speaker) b/c of the price, rather have a paper 15(it will be used differently), and actually liking the BXD12. The BXD15 will be used at home and any private party gigs(i.e. someone's large living room/game room.....yes we do those sometimes). The Turbosound speakers are a MAJOR improvement compared to the Behringer ones. I'll update with a BXD15 later.
Got a Bugera BXD12A(aluminum speaker) as a replacement, MUCH better control of the audio with a pad, input clip indicator, and compressor that works. As with the Behringer, this is mainly used for mids/highs with a severe bass cut as a right side spot monitor at my vocal mic/pedal board area. I get tons of lows from FOH subs and the drummer's monitor. LOVE the compressor as it will make the speaker last longer.
PS: Ordered a BXD15(paper speaker) b/c of the price, rather have a paper 15(it will be used differently), and actually liking the BXD12. The BXD15 will be used at home and any private party gigs(i.e. someone's large living room/game room.....yes we do those sometimes). The Turbosound speakers are a MAJOR improvement compared to the Behringer ones. I'll update with a BXD15 later.
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They exist, they probably get tired of the same naysayers, many of whom won't even bother to look at things IRL.
For $299, based on what I heard yesterday, it's a steal if you like how it sounds.
I tried a Bugera BXD12 combo yesterday, first time I've seen them in this area. I remember when they were first advertised and they fell off my radar. What I heard sounded like it would work on most gigs plus it had an XLR line out to go to the board. Felt like it was around 45-50 lbs. which IMO is manageable. Like the Veyron heads a robust active bass will overdrive the input so the -15dB pad addresses that. The compressor works, there's three band EQ and high and low voicing switches.
The power rating? Once I check out gear it's a moot point. I used to gig a Bugera Veyron Mosfet and it was easily louder (or gave that impression) than my Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0, a great amp. As long as gear can coast through my work I'm cool. they both do.
I tested it out with a hard-hitting bass, my Brubaker JXB6 Custom 6 string J bass. The combo had no issue keeping up with it with the pad engaged. The bass has a Bartolini quadcoils and an NTMB preamp with the internal gain around 80% up. I think the max boost on the preamp is 12dB. Highs, lows and mids, all there. Aggressive. I may go back and try it with some more basses.
If Behringer bugs you, keep it moving. Otherwise I think it would be silly to just ignore this if you're in the market for amplification in this format. Again, $299 regular price is IMO a steal.
I have no connection with Bugera/Behringer. I use a Quilter Bass Block head.
BXD12A seems to be about 40 pounds, the BXD15 is 54 pounds. Bugera's BXD12A is much lighter than the Behringer BX1200, most likely due to cabinet AND amp construction differences.
The extra 14 pounds puts it at about the same as ACME B2's weight.
The extra 14 pounds puts it at about the same as ACME B2's weight.
I was looking at these as well wondering how good they are. Looking at the documentation, the "Quick Start Guide" says 1000W with an asterisk saying "Independent of limiters and protective circuits". More telling, the speakers are listed as a single 250W speaker.
