Bugera Veyron BV1001M gig review

[bobcruz]

I called the wattage claim exaggerated, and I stand by my characterization, since peak watts are virtually meaningless to me. I have this complaint against most manufacturers lately, not just Behringer, although Behringer seems to have raised (lowered?) the bar in the exaggeration sweepstakes. I also said 500 RMS watts is a lot of watts and plenty for me. Tell me an amp has 500 RMS watts and I'm interested; tell me it has 2000 watts of "total power" or 2000 peak watts and I don't know what that amp will actually produce in real terms that mean anything to me, so no sale. YMMV and that's totally cool with me.

 

[ebozzz]

Are you drinking? You said exactly what I quoted you as saying. I didn't edit it. I didn't misrepresent it. I corrected your misconception. No need to thank me.

I never said it's exaggerated. I have said (in another thread) that I think they got their amp to produce 2000 watts for a few nanoseconds and use that figure without qualifying it. I've also said I suspected it was probably fell in the typical 500 watt micro category. It does.

Am I or was I drinking? Not at all! Maybe that's how people in your circle roll but not I.

Here's what I said....

Did they really exaggerate? I thought they always stated 2000 watts peak and were reluctant to provide rms ratings...

Maybe I should have ended the statement that I have in bold font above with a question mark as I truly did think that they, Bugera, had stated that it was 2000 watts peak. If I was mistaken and it appears in this case I was, a simple statement saying that would have sufficed. Did it really take all of the attachments, videos & things? One thing for sure is that they absolutely refused to provide the rms ratings and the information that the previous member posted, if accurate, is the first time I have heard anything other than speculation.

@Guinness20 , I said this earlier and let me say it again. I never doubted what you say you received from Bugera. It still doesn't change how I feel about the amp and I stand by my previous statement. It's the stoutest 500 watts that i have ever heard.

Exactly. You said

They don't. But I'm glad your not concerned and good.

Now, here is where the confusion set in for me. I interpreted the above to mean that you were saying that I was somehow adamant that they represented the amp as 2000 watts peak. My response was based on that.

nutdog, I have the Kustom KXB500 and currently both Veyron amps in my home at this time. You know the KXB500 as you've owned one. I'm sure that you are aware about what the specs for it are. Basically a 500 watt amp, right? Well, I'm here to tell you that 500 Kustom watts sure seem to be different than the 500 watts of either of the Veyrons. Not empirical, I know but there is a difference in the performance of the amps. So much so that the power thing is no longer a concern for me. The Veyron M does what I need it to do. Right now I am just trying to decide if the Veyron T that I have warrants staying around. It's not an easy decision to make. It's also an impressive amp.

If the specs or the way that they have promoted the amps is a problem/deal breaker for you & others, I respect that. It's your choice. Let me post this again.

Don't know if this is news, apologies if it isn't. Emailed Bugera asking what the rms of the veyron was, and they replied! They said it's 500w at 4 ohms.

There you have it. It's a 500 watt head. Accept that & get one or opt out. It's your choice.....

 

[ebozzz]

I called the wattage claim exaggerated, and I stand by my characterization, since peak watts are virtually meaningless to me. I have this complaint against most manufacturers lately, not just Behringer, although Behringer seems to have raised (lowered?) the bar in the exaggeration sweepstakes. I also said 500 RMS watts is a lot of watts and plenty for me. Tell me an amp has 500 RMS watts and I'm interested; tell me it has 2000 watts of "total power" or 2000 peak watts and I don't know what that amp will actually produce in real terms that mean anything to me, so no sale. YMMV and that's totally cool with me.

I respect that but honestly now, peak watts being meaningless to you isn't really an exaggeration. You just have a preference for how you feel that certain terminology should be used when representing these types of products. Nothing wrong with that. I really had some of the same concerns before I purchased one of the amps. I ain't mad at ya and totally get where you are coming from.

 

[staccatogrowl]

Back and forth is cool. Venom and acrimony not so much. All of the wattage tug of wars are meaningless to me: No agreed-upon standards/practice for reporting and marketing; No agreed-upon standards/practice for measuring; Known standards that do exist are not used. In my limited experience, even sacred root mean square numbers mean little. For example, are they tube watts or solid state? How useful is EQ in managing/promoting power conversion to music and the live performance environment?

None of these watt issues will ever be settled on TB. Gig experience is the watt war reconciler/peacemaker for me. So, I especially appreciate the gig reports here, and the comparisons by folks that actually have different amps for reference. Otherwise, I am happy to forget about these watt wars, and could do without the off topic, snide allegations/assaults on fellow posters.

I should be one to talk, right? I've certainly made my contrary, nasty, and trolling viewpoints on TB. I also received warnings/suspensions in the past that helped me better appreciate this community. I still have to practice restraint before flaming. A good way for me to keep perspective is to see if my comments coincide the the thread title. Right now they don't, instead following the sidetracked car crash. Maybe call the tow trucks and get the gig reports back on track?

 

[nutdog]

Maybe I should have ended the statement that I have in bold font above with a question mark as I truly did think that they, Bugera, had stated that it was 2000 watts peak. If I was mistaken and it appears in this case I was, a simple statement saying that would have sufficed. Did it really take all of the attachments, videos & things?

I didn't see how anyone could have possibly "thought they always stated 2000 watts peak" when they don't say peak anywhere in their online documentation so yes, it seemed necessary. Sometimes even irrefutable evidence isn't enough for some people.

I called the wattage claim exaggerated, and I stand by my characterization, since peak watts are virtually meaningless to me. I have this complaint against most manufacturers lately, not just Behringer, although Behringer seems to have raised (lowered?) the bar in the exaggeration sweepstakes. I also said 500 RMS watts is a lot of watts and plenty for me. Tell me an amp has 500 RMS watts and I'm interested; tell me it has 2000 watts of "total power" or 2000 peak watts and I don't know what that amp will actually produce in real terms that mean anything to me

In another thread I said essentially the same thing to Uli. He attacked my intentions and integrity and the thread was locked and most of it was deleted before I could respond.

I get that Uli and many others, including me think current rating methods are not standardized nor adequate to describe bass amp performance. But when every other manufacturer with a similar amp says 500-600 and they come up with a "better" way that says theirs is 4x more powerful without explanation and qualification it's even more meaningless.

It's like a good ballplayer that tells everyone he can jump 10 feet. No one believes him, he can't jump 10 feet at tryouts but he keeps insisting he can and the English measurement system is inadequate to describe his abilities. Then he reluctantly concedes that he jumps 10 feet on his trampoline so he's not really lying. He may well be a great ballplayer but the claim would likely backfire and hurt his chances of making the team.

If they've made a nice 500 watt micro for a low price they should be proud. People would buy it and, like ebozzz, would say wow, this amp sounds way better than 500 watts (whatever that means to someone that doesn't care about power ratings). That's what I think, but I don't run a multi billion dollar electronics company. In business I prefer the straight forward, deliver more than you promise approach but that's probably why I'll never be rich.

PS: Behringer hater, Behringer hater, Behringer hater. I said it so you don't have to. As I told Uli, I own a Behringer 115 bass combo and think it's a decent amp. Rated at 180 watts but won't come close to matching my first bass combo that I still have, a yamaha 115 combo rated at 100watts. So I'm familiar with the, uh, generous rating method.

PSS: ebozzz, thanks, but no need to lay out my choices. I find your lists incomplete. And forgive me if I don't fully buy into the stoutest 500 claims. Saw similar claims for the kustom, including "best amp ever" and kills the (insert higher cost micro with more power here).

 

[ebozzz]

I didn't see how anyone could have possibly "thought they always stated 2000 watts peak" when they don't say peak anywhere in their online documentation so yes, it seemed necessary. Sometimes even irrefutable evidence isn't enough for some people.

Would have been enough for me. I just posted a response to @bobcruz . You felt the need to go on a mission! It ain't that serious. Regardless of the specs and marketing methods, the amp works for me. You seem to be hung up on the specs and marketing. Your choice....

PSS: ebozzz, thanks, but no need to lay out my choices. I find your lists incomplete. And forgive me if I don't fully buy into the stoutest 500 claims. Saw similar claims for the kustom, including "best amp ever" and kills the (insert higher cost micro with more power here).

I still own and love my Kustom KXB500. No plans to get rid of it. There is a difference in the performance of it and the Veyrons with regards to power. In my opinion, the Veyrons definitely have more heft.

I could really care less what you think of my impressions about any piece of gear. I think it's evident that I also don't make my purchases based solely on your feedback either. Your thoughts about Uli and the amps don't mean they are bad. Buy one, hate one or ignore one. It's your choice.

EDIT: Laid that out for you again.....

 

[nutdog]

You felt the need to go on a mission!

And you seem to be on a mission to squelch any negative comments about gear you like.

I haven't mentioned it in months and never in this thread until yesterday. Get your facts straight before posting and you're unlikely to hear from me on the topic.

 

[Guinness20]

ebozzz, on one of nutdog's pics it does say total power - 2000w.

 

[ebozzz]

And you seem to be on a mission to squelch any negative comments about gear you like.

I haven't mentioned it in months and never in this thread until yesterday. Get your facts straight before posting and you're unlikely to hear from me on the topic.

What facts have I misrepresented? You seem to be on a mission to promote negative comments about the gear you DON'T like! Let it go Man...

 

[ebozzz]

ebozzz, on one of nutdog's pics it does say total power - 2000w.View attachment 654305

What's your point? I never provided any definitive statement as to what the ratings were. I simply questioned what someone posted by stating that I felt or was under the impression that Bugera had said that it was a 2000 watt peak amp. Was I wrong about that feeling or impression? Absolutely! Admitted as much a few posts back....

 

[nutdog]

What facts have a misrepresented?

stating that I felt or was under the impression that Bugera had said that it was a 2000 watt peak amp. Was I wrong about that feeling or impression? Absolutely! Admitted as much a few posts back....

I didn't say you misrepresented. Your facts weren't straight. You answered your own question.

I'm perfectly willing to let it go. Are you?

 

[ebozzz]

I didn't say you misrepresented. Your facts weren't straight. You answered your own question.

I'm perfectly willing to let it go. Are you?

LOL! That's all you've got! Well, let me crown you Da Champ!

My statement was never made as fact. More of a question. You seem to take it as if I said that is what Bugera stated. What I said was an assumption. Ever made one of those? Ever been wrong about one? I have. In fact I just admitted earlier in this thread that I was wrong about my assumption. You felt the need to get all extra on the topic. It really wasn't that huge of a deal. You could have just replied, "The Bugera site says......"

Can I let it go? I never grabbed it Man. You chose to escalate it. YOUR choice....

 

[BassikLee]

You guys.....


I'm SHOCKED that the amp doesn't put out the full 2000 watts with room to spare! Sarcasm. I do agree that if it's 500 watts, it's a damn hairy 500 watts. Easily made a fEarful beg for mercy.

 

[Robear22]

I agree with the guys that say this amp has some heft. I have owned a Genz Benz 6.0, 9.0, a Carvin BX500, have played a gig on a Markbass LMIII, and GKMB500 fusion. This amp kills all of them volume and headroom wise. If you don't like the Behringer brand and policies then stay out of here and make a thread about your displeasure. If you have personally tried the amp and have issues then let me know!!!

 

[ebozzz]

I agree with the guys that say this amp has some heft. I have owned a Genz Benz 6.0, 9.0, a Carvin BX500, have played a gig on a Markbass LMIII, and GKMB500 fusion. This amp kills all of them volume and headroom wise. If you don't like the Behringer brand and policies then stay out of here and make a thread about your displeasure. If you have personally tried the amp and have issues then let me know!!!

Thank you!

 

[disssa]

This "watt-discussion" is boring. The fact is that the amp is loud, even very loud and sounds pretty good. So I do not care how many watts it has.

 

[rodl2005]

I agree with the guys that say this amp has some heft. I have owned a Genz Benz 6.0, 9.0, a Carvin BX500, have played a gig on a Markbass LMIII, and GKMB500 fusion. This amp kills all of them volume and headroom wise. If you don't like the Behringer brand and policies then stay out of here and make a thread about your displeasure. If you have personally tried the amp and have issues then let me know!!!

How does it compare tonally with the Shuttle 6.0 ??

 

[Bart Bolton]

I didn't see how anyone could have possibly "thought they always stated 2000 watts peak" when they don't say peak anywhere in their online documentation so yes, it seemed necessary. Sometimes even irrefutable evidence isn't enough for some people.



In another thread I said essentially the same thing to Uli. He attacked my intentions and integrity and the thread was locked and most of it was deleted before I could respond.

I get that Uli and many others, including me think current rating methods are not standardized nor adequate to describe bass amp performance. But when every other manufacturer with a similar amp says 500-600 and they come up with a "better" way that says theirs is 4x more powerful without explanation and qualification it's even more meaningless.

It's like a good ballplayer that tells everyone he can jump 10 feet. No one believes him, he can't jump 10 feet at tryouts but he keeps insisting he can and the English measurement system is inadequate to describe his abilities. Then he reluctantly concedes that he jumps 10 feet on his trampoline so he's not really lying. He may well be a great ballplayer but the claim would likely backfire and hurt his chances of making the team.

If they've made a nice 500 watt micro for a low price they should be proud. People would buy it and, like ebozzz, would say wow, this amp sounds way better than 500 watts (whatever that means to someone that doesn't care about power ratings). That's what I think, but I don't run a multi billion dollar electronics company. In business I prefer the straight forward, deliver more than you promise approach but that's probably why I'll never be rich.

PS: Behringer hater, Behringer hater, Behringer hater. I said it so you don't have to. As I told Uli, I own a Behringer 115 bass combo and think it's a decent amp. Rated at 180 watts but won't come close to matching my first bass combo that I still have, a yamaha 115 combo rated at 100watts. So I'm familiar with the, uh, generous rating method.

PSS: ebozzz, thanks, but no need to lay out my choices. I find your lists incomplete. And forgive me if I don't fully buy into the stoutest 500 claims. Saw similar claims for the kustom, including "best amp ever" and kills the (insert higher cost micro with more power here).

Dear all,

Please allow me to introduce myself, my name is Bart Bolton and I am the Manager of the MUSIC Group Care Center in Nevada which is in charge of servicing and managing spare parts for the brands Midas, Klark Teknik, Turbosound, Behringer and Bugera.

Allow me to clarify that we do not specify this amp as 500 Watt RMS as we do not specify any of our products in RMS for reasons often discussed. Today's Class D amps are generally not designed for RMS performance and there are many online articles that explain why RMS specs are not meaningful for music performance. Perhaps we could suggest that a qualified test lab does proper measurements and in comparisons with many other brands. This would be very interesting.

Also with all respect Nutdog, Uli did neither "attack your intentions nor your integrity" and simply explained the company position. I think it is important to correct such misconceptions.

Please let me know if anyone has any further questions. We're here to help!

BB

 

[seamonkey]

Dear all,

Please allow me to introduce myself, my name is Bart Bolton and I am the Manager of the MUSIC Group Care Center in Nevada which is in charge of servicing and managing spare parts for the brands Midas, Klark Teknik, Turbosound, Behringer and Bugera.

Allow me to clarify that we do not specify this amp as 500 Watt RMS as we do not specify any of our products in RMS for reasons often discussed. Today's Class D amps are generally not designed for RMS performance and there are many online articles that explain why RMS specs are not meaningful for music performance. Perhaps we could suggest that a qualified test lab does proper measurements and in comparisons with many other brands. This would be very interesting.
...

We all know that amp makers do look at competing products. It's only smart. And they sure as heck compare performance between other brands. They measure the other guys amps.

Bugera has the means and talent to do this such a comparison but it would be against CUP rules to publish any such comparison around here. An independent third party would need to do and publish the comparison. And it should be to some standard.

So to pick a measurement standard, I suggest Common Amplifier Format
Link Removed

Maybe a few major players jumping on to this could influence the rest of the industry.

Otherwise, In the US I'd like to see "FTC Amplifier Rule" followed. This is what our government chose to protect consumer gear against false claims. That's not going to happen voluntarily for pro gear like bass amps. Every amp maker not just Bugera is going to have special pleading of why FTC Amplifier Rule doesn't apply to them.

Until then, it's just 2000 watts. Bugera doesn't publish "2000 Watts Peak" either. It is just published as "2000 Watts" - which makes as much sense as rating light bulbs with just "watts" today.

 

[nutdog]

I was going to give it up. Really, I was.

Allow me to clarify that we do not specify this amp as 500 Watt RMS as we do not specify any of our products in RMS for reasons often discussed. Today's Class D amps are generally not designed for RMS performance and there are many online articles that explain why RMS specs are not meaningful for music performance. Perhaps we could suggest that a qualified test lab does proper measurements and in comparisons with many other brands. This would be very interesting.

That you don't spec RMS is obvious. What you do spec is not. How is "2000 watts" any more meaningful for music performance?

Also with all respect Nutdog, Uli did neither "attack your intentions nor your integrity" and simply explained the company position. I think it is important to correct such misconceptions.

The exchange was deleted by talkbass staff so it's impossible to prove either way. In the interest of love, peace and happiness I'm willing to accept there was a misunderstanding.

Warm regards.