Bugera Veyron Now Available

[Jazz Ad]

That was absolutely a shot. I'm ready to be corrected here, but this is where reputation comes into play - as any more I automatically assume that if I see something from Behringer, or their most closely associated sub-brands, that it's just a reverse engineered clone of something else. Can you argue that there isn't a history there? Reputations are hard to change.

Actually no, they never did that except for the simplest, all analog pedals that pretty much are open source nowadays.
What Behringer does is offering similar looks and functions as established brands. They copy the shell, not the guts.
For example, the inside of a BX4500H has nothing in common with an Ashdown MAG. They achieve similar tone through completely different means.
When it comes to ClassD they use their own housemade modules, not the usual OEM suspects.

 

[BadExample]

The frequency response xhz-xkhz at whatever dB tell you pretty much nothing about what happens between the extremes. And tone controls can changes this. It's not like these are static devices.

I'm not anti-spec, I'm not going to ignore the blatant limitations with them. They can't tell the whole story, in fact they can miss a huge part of it... which can be misleading if you ignore that.

Frequency response may exclude the preamp section, but if it does, it certainly should include (as a separate spec) HPF frequency, if any. HPF should be listed anyway. On their latest pre-carvin-death, carvin specified frequency response of the amplifier section.

That reminds my, preamp controls, freq. center and +db/-db.

SNR for the bass amp as a whole.

 

[tom-g]

That was absolutely a shot. I'm ready to be corrected here, but this is where reputation comes into play - as any more I automatically assume that if I see something from Behringer, or their most closely associated sub-brands, that it's just a reverse engineered clone of something else. Can you argue that there isn't a history there? Reputations are hard to change.

You guys so live in the past. Obviously you have not noticed, Behringer changed their business model. They are not copying anymore. They are buying the companies and their intellectual property. There is absolutely no need to copy anything. They got it all.

 

[bobcruz]

You guys so live in the past. Obviously you have not noticed, Behringer changed their business model. The are not copying anymore. They are buying the companies and their intellectual property. Their is absolutely no need to copy anything. They got it all.

They didn't buy Genz Benz; they just copied the Streamliner with their amp that's the subject of all the controversy in this thread. So the copying is ongoing, and so is the exaggerated marketing of specifications. That doesn't sound like a reformed company to me--that usually requires entirely new management and years to overcome the previous management's reputation.

 

[Kro]

They didn't buy Genz Benz; they just copied the Streamliner with their amp that's the subject of all the controversy in this thread.

To be fair, I haven’t been able to confirm nor refute the claim that the Veyron actually shares more with the Streamliner than its aesthetic/layout. Its internals may very well be unique, which prior to this thread I probably wouldn’t have even have considered – I admit that.

The are not copying anymore.

However, remember when I said earlier that good marketers have to avoid even appearing to be misleading at all costs? Purposefully attempting to look like another product while maybe (unconfirmed) simultaneously trying to create a reputation for in-house engineering might be working at cross purposes.

I’m always willing to keep an open mind towards being corrected though. Doesn’t change my views on their ratings, but I’m curious to learn more about their product development process.

 

[tom-g]

They didn't buy Genz Benz; they just copied the Streamliner with their amp that's the subject of all the controversy in this thread. So the copying is ongoing, and so is the exaggerated marketing of specifications. That doesn't sound like a reformed company to me--that usually requires entirely new management and years to overcome the previous management's reputation.

You gotta believe what you gotta believe. I might be missing something, but there are two versions of the Bugera one with a tube, the other solid state. AFAIK there is only a tube version for Genz Benz. Genz Benz is using an off the shelve power module. Bugera is using their own. So how is that copying? Appearance? These type of amps all look similar. Anyway you are totally missing the point.

I did not state that that company is “reformed” or anything close to that nature. It’s a different ballgame, which will make it so much harder for everybody else to survive. I think it’s more relevant to focus on that instead of the past. I don’t like monopolies!

 

[ebozzz]

They didn't buy Genz Benz; they just copied the Streamliner with their amp that's the subject of all the controversy in this thread. So the copying is ongoing, and so is the exaggerated marketing of specifications. That doesn't sound like a reformed company to me--that usually requires entirely new management and years to overcome the previous management's reputation.

Bob, did they copy the entire amp or simply the appearance?

 

[jeff7bass]

You gotta believe what you gotta believe. I might be missing something, but there are two versions of the Bugera one with a tube, the other solid state. AFAIK there is only a tube version for Genz Benz. Genz Benz is using an off the shelve power module. Bugera is using their own. So how is that copying? Appearance? These type of amps all look similar. Anyway you are totally missing the point.

I did not state that that company is “reformed” or anything close to that nature. It’s a different ballgame, which will make it so much harder for everybody else to survive. I think it’s more relevant to focus on that instead of the past. I don’t like monopolies!

Didn't Genz Benz sellout to Fender? hmmm......

 

[ebozzz]

Didn't Genz Benz sellout to Fender? hmmm......

I guess that I'm missing your point. Help me out?

 

[tom-g]

I guess that I'm missing your point. Help me out?

Many companies don’t exist or are not independent anymore - SWR, Genz Benz, Hartke, TC Electronics, etc.

Edit: I forgot Ampeg

 

[bobcruz]

Bob, did they copy the entire amp or simply the appearance?

The answer is obvious. I guess it makes a difference to some people; copy entire amp = bad; copy appearance and EQ points = OK. Cool. I'm not trying to change anybody's mind about this company. I was just responding to the post that said "they're not copying anymore." To me, copying appearance and EQ points = copying.

 

[ebozzz]

The answer is obvious. I guess it makes a difference to some people; copy entire amp = bad; copy appearance and EQ points = OK. Cool. I'm not trying to change anybody's mind about this company. I was just responding to the post that said "they're not copying anymore." To me, copying appearance and EQ points = copying.

LOL! It's not obvious to me even in the appearance. Similarities? Absolutely! But, there are differences. How about internally? How much of that is the same? How much is different? Do you know?

 

[Munjibunga]

To be fair, I haven’t been able to confirm nor refute the claim that the Veyron actually shares more with the Streamliner than its aesthetic/layout. Its internals may very well be unique, which prior to this thread I probably wouldn’t have even have considered – I admit that.



However, remember when I said earlier that good marketers have to avoid even appearing to be misleading at all costs? Purposefully attempting to look like another product while maybe (unconfirmed) simultaneously trying to create a reputation for in-house engineering might be working at cross purposes.

I’m always willing to keep an open mind towards being corrected though. Doesn’t change my views on their ratings, but I’m curious to learn more about their product development process.

So let's say hypothetically Behringer is copying others' circuitry. How are they making the lower price point - lower margin or cheaper components?

 

[Kro]

So let's say hypothetically Behringer is copying others' circuitry. How are they making the lower price point - lower margin or cheaper components?

If that were the case, then speaking hypothetically, I'd say the lower price point would be a combination of less expensive components, cheaper labor, and most importantly no need to recoup the R&D costs that can be very significant.

Given those other factors, margin may actually be increased, but it's impossible to say with certainty.

 

[BadExample]

So let's say hypothetically Behringer is copying others' circuitry. How are they making the lower price point - lower margin or cheaper components?

10 year old solderers

For the record, that is a joke. You may laugh now.

 

[BadExample]

Didn't Genz Benz sellout to Fender? hmmm......

It's very unlikely Mr. Genzler "sold out." He had his heart and soul in Genz Benz. He more likely had to sell the company to Fender to save the company. Also, I think Genz Benz was first absorbed by KMC, but I am not sure of the history. He's a member here. You could PM him. I think asking would be slightly less rude than calling him a sell out.

 

[BadExample]

Bob, did they copy the entire amp or simply the appearance?

I would question their ability to copy the power amp section. You could test that by cranking up a Veyron until the power amp distorts, if it sounds !@#$, it's not a copy... or not a very good copy.

 

[ebozzz]

10 year old solderers

For the record, that is a joke. You may laugh now.

REALLY bad joke! Especially for use in this thread......

Here's an article from a German site interviewing Uli. It's from November of 2009.....

Invalid Link Removed

Part of the reason for their ability to keep costs low might be because they are possibly making most if not all of their components in-house now....

Almost ten years ago, we invested a lot of money in "Behringer City" but above all in quality assurance measures. This is the reason why today we produce almost everything ourselves. From electronics and wood processing to cable production and switches and paper production for the loudspeaker diaphragm. As a rule, own production is not cheaper, but it guarantees quality and consistency.

 

[ebozzz]

So, maybe what they are paying on the front end is saving costs on the back end?

 

[ebozzz]

I would question their ability to copy the power amp section. You could test that by cranking up a Veyron until the power amp distorts, if it sounds !@#$, it's not a copy... or not a very good copy.

Here's a pic of the inside of the Veyron Tube......