• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Build II - Paradox MJ5 - New design!

I am afraid I have to switch to plan B...

Plan A was to wax with steel wool. And to be honest I had a good feeling about that, the coat on the bass looks just great and I am almost halfway in the waiting period. Got a lot of great info from you guys so I was confident enough to take the plunge.

While waiting, I figured I could at least clean up the cavities. The control cavity cover didn't fit anymore, nor the pickups and the neck. I made everything to an exact fit (planned oil in the first place) and with the rather thick varnish coat on there, all holes and cavities became too small.

While doing so, I came across a problem I had earlier: if you remove the varnish from the inside of the cavity, the varnish only lays on top of the surface. The adhesion isn't very good so it seems and around the control cavity the varnish came loose with little bubbles of air underneath here and there. The problem is I cleaned up with a knife, so I really cut the varnish from the inside, making this happen. But I could fix this. I thinned some varnish and coated the edge, so the varnish got into the bubbles. Then I just pressed it back with my thumb and let dry. Due the to coated edge, the adhesion was restored the next day and the bubbles disappeared. So far, so good. Now I only need to use some sandpaper to do this cleanup. Already tested and this didn't present me with the same problem.

Next day I thought, well, everything looks good again, let's order the wax and steel wool.. but, I just wanted to see how the neck looks in there.. (and it was a bit loose before so I thought it may fit perfectly right now). But so it seemed it just didn't fit. No problem, tried to remove it again and then disaster happened.. at the edge of the neck pocket, the varnish kind of snapped or broke due to the stress of the neck pocket flexing a bit I guess. A small but ugly yellow spot appeared next to the neck pocket, somewhere inbetween the sixteen layers. It looks brittle, so it's absolutely dry enough. I also cannot reach it from the sides to drop in some new varnish, really frustrating.

Call me unteachable, I didn't see this coming though.... :hiding:

Meanwhile I also tested plan B: I sanded back my testpiece with 1500 g and coated it with one layer of satin varnish. The sanding made it satin too, but I still got some witness lines that I couldn't get rid off. The satin varnish did hide the witness lines completely though, in only one layer. I was surprised by how good it looked.

Right now, I am kind of hoping this plan B will hide the ugly spot for me, that, of course, appeared right next to where thre pickguard goes, not under it... I also need the extra layer of plan B, but don't want another 3 clear coats on it again, so I guess plan B became a better option, knowing that the test piece came out so well.

What I am planning to do now: I will first clean up all cavities with sandpaper as nice and good as possible. Then, I will sand the entire bass with a high grit (starting 600 if necessary and go up to 1500). Lastly, I will coat it once in satin varnish, let dry for one week and be done with it.

Actually, I'm a bit fed up with this project and I so want it to be finished.. one more setback and I'll throw it out of the window.. :scowl:
 
Before you do anything, it might be possible to reflow the varnish and close up that chip. Applying a small amount of something like acetone on the end of a toothpick into the open edge of the chip should wick in the solvent between the layers. With a bit of luck that will soften the varnish enough to allow the layers to re-adhere. I'm really not 100% sure how this would work since I don't know your varnish or the repair firsthand.

If it gets to the point of you throwing the bass out of the window you'll note a crowd gathering outside in your garden and on the pavement.
 
I got to the same place with my fretless 6. It was the first time I'd done a gloss lacquer finish and I had problem after problem. The first lacquer, which was water added reacted with the epoxy grain fill, tuning areas of the finish cloudy, so back to bare wood. Then the bass fell from the hangar when I was spraying the final clear coat, causing severe damage that required sanding off the finish again. I wound up just letting t air for 2 months at that point before I touched it again.

Persevere! It's a beautiful instrument.
 
Call me first before you do!

I will, what's your nr ?

Before you do anything, it might be possible to reflow the varnish and close up that chip. Applying a small amount of something like acetone on the end of a toothpick into the open edge of the chip should wick in the solvent between the layers. With a bit of luck that will soften the varnish enough to allow the layers to re-adhere. I'm really not 100% sure how this would work since I don't know your varnish or the repair firsthand.

If it gets to the point of you throwing the bass out of the window you'll note a crowd gathering outside in your garden and on the pavement.

Hahaha lol.. yeah I guess so.. what you suggest is exactly what I did this afternoon. I thinned some varnish considerably with turpentine. Then sanded the neck pocket sides a little so I got to the air bubble (which made it tear open like a blister actually) and let some of the mixture creep under there. When it's under there well enough, it hides everything, but the trick is to let it dry and adhere well. We'll see. I added some undiluted varnish to close it up around the edges and put some tape over it to press it flat against the surface. I hope this'll fix the mishap.

I got to the same place with my fretless 6. It was the first time I'd done a gloss lacquer finish and I had problem after problem. The first lacquer, which was water added reacted with the epoxy grain fill, tuning areas of the finish cloudy, so back to bare wood. Then the bass fell from the hangar when I was spraying the final clear coat, causing severe damage that required sanding off the finish again. I wound up just letting t air for 2 months at that point before I touched it again.

Persevere! It's a beautiful instrument.

Thanks, I needed that :smug:... thought I was the only one continuously fighting with the finishing stage.. if, and I emphasize _if_ I get this thing finished up well, I will forget all these troubles and be happy with a great instrument. But sometimes I find it hard to persevere and the long timescale isn't helping as well regarding my patience and the suspense...

I hope to have an update soon. I hope to get such a nice flat finish as on my test piece with all those little thingies fixed... that would be so great.. oh well.... :rollno:
 
The first lacquer, which was water added reacted with the epoxy grain fill, tuning areas of the finish cloudy, so back to bare wood.

That wasn't a reaction with the epoxy. Nothing should react with the epoxy. That's called "Blushing". It's moisture left in the finish.

How long did you let it cure? On water based lacquer, they often look milky or hazy and then dry clear when they cure.

I don't use water based lacquer. It doesn't burn in well (if at all) between coats, and if you have to do much sanding you can have witness lines. They also do often not look as clear as solvent based lacquer and have a blue-ish cast.
 
I left it for a month to hope it would turn clear, but it wouldn't... and yes, I know it's called blushing and was the result of it being water based lacquer. I imagine part of the problem may have been that the system 3 epoxies seem very finicky wrt mixing ratios. Even though I mixed using a scale, I think it did not cure properly.
 
All these "thingies" are experience.

..so I don't walk away empty-handed, whatever the outcome would be :D.


After the procedure described above, the 'blister' disappeared for the most part, about 70%.. only two small spots remained. I think I can work with that.

I just sanded the body with 1500 and was amazed I could do a rather thorough sanding without getting witness lines. Too bad the last coats weren't flat enough so I had to go a little bit further and got some witness lines anyway. Even got some confidence again doing so and thought this could even be buffed to a high gloss, still.. :scowl: :eyebrow: :smug:

I also spent a lot of time fixing all holes and cavities. Literally nothing did fit anymore.. after woodworking I was proud of my tight fitting hardware, now I know I better add half a mm or so for the finish next time.

But anyway, I still have to do the neck tonight. And after everything's sanded thorougly and cleaned well I'll coat it in satin, or if I change my mind, with clear coat to still do the rubbing out afterwards. But that will be done tomorrow.

By the way: I want to add that this experience I gained today couldn't be circumvented anyway.. because sooner or later I had to clean up the cavities and I think I made this mistake anyway.
 
The body is ready. I cleaned up all holes and cavities, gave it a thorough sand with 1500 grit, an undiluted coat of satin varnish, wasn't happy with the amount of brush strokes on the top, sanded again with 1200 to 1500 grit and applied a significantly diluted last coat of satin varnish. To be honest, I am not completely satisfied, but I think I cannot get it less perfect than this.

I made another video, because it's hard to capture with a single picture. Again, don't mind the the editing, camera angles and such, it's just about the bass (the reflections on the top are visible in the second part of the video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkMQEGi0oJE

I need to do some more work to the headstock face (the rest of the neck looks superb already). After that, I'm done with finishing I guess.

I must say the satin works amazingly well on the natural wood. Gives it a real smooth and thin feel. It makes the maple of the neck stand out really well, which also goes for the sides and back of the body. On the red, the satin looks a bit milky and dull. For future applications, I would use this method again for natural wood, if aiming for a satin look. On colored surfaces, I'd rather go for a high gloss nitro next time.
 
Things are going great this weekend. I installed all hardware and soldered the passive circuit. Still want to dot some i's, but all in all it came out superb!

I weighed the bass and it came in at 3.9 kg (+/- 8.6 lbs), not that bad for a fiver I reckon. Yesterday I ordered a set of strings, the DR MM5-45 (Fat Beams, Marcus Milller signature). When I receive them I 'only' have to finish the nut, do the fret dressing and plug it in, see if it works :smug:

So it may not be playable yet, but it's sure nice to look at:

Link Removed

Link Removed

Link Removed

415-almost-finished-close-up.jpg


Link Removed

Link Removed

Link Removed

Link Removed

Link Removed

Link Removed

422-almost-finished-close-up.jpg


423-almost-finished-headstock-back.jpg
 
..Actually, I'm a bit fed up with this project and I so want it to be finished.. one more setback and I'll throw it out of the window.. :scowl:

If all goes horribly wrong (which I hope it doesn't) you sand down the bass and send it Pat Wilkins to be refinished. He's the best and his prices are pretty reasonable. I love this design by the way and think it's one of the coolest designs I have seen in a long time.
 
Robert,

I'm glad to see you persevered through all the trouble you had during finishing. I'm also glad you didn't take the easy way out and skip the red. You should be proud man, that bass is absolutely beautiful.

Now that I see it, I like the satin finish, especially on the ash and the back of the neck. You did a hell of a job man, Now you just need to put that headstock logo on it.

I do have one suggestion though. Shave the pick guard on the inside of the neck pocket so it lays down flat. This bass came out to nice to skip on such a minor detail