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Building: Tools, Fixtures, Jigs & Templates

According to Hoadley, wood reacts to moisture along it's length by a factor of approximately two tenths of one percent. The approximately is important because species, density, and where it the wood resided in the log all play a part.

Everything is a factor and will have an affect on the instrument. A set up is a game played in thousandths of an inch. It doesn't take much to make an exacting player unhappy with their guitar. It also doesn't take much in the way of environmental change to make that happen.
 
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I tend to disagree with the theory that truss rods are used to compensate for a bad neck angle. You can adjust a truss rod to make the action look likes its low, but it will buzz all over the place on the first few frets. A truss rods only purpose is to adjust relief, action is a different adjustment. I have a Danelectro 59 DC that was reissued in the mid 90s, I bought it new and have taken good care of that instrument. Sometimes it is perfect, sometimes it is almost unplayable because it does not have a truss rod, just a reinforced neck. Those Martin and Danelectro necks may be fine for an area with a steady climate and humidity, but where I live it changes constantly, and a truss rod is a much better option.

Actually, all reissue Danelectros have standard double-acting truss rods, like any other modern guitar. The problem is that, while the original Korean reissues are generally very good quality, the later Chinese ones are spotty. I got one that had such a bobble in the neck that you had to grind the frets practically off to get it to play. I got it to work, but Danelectro also replaced the neck under warranty, they are actually quite good to deal with. Now that they've moved production back to Korea, the latest models are quite nice again.

The new Danelectro necks are nothing like the old ones in construction, they are more like Fenders - hard maple, truss rods, etc. I abandoned the first poplar neck I built - the headstock was not strong enough, and it had other issues related to being a prototype. I built the replacement with a subtly tapered ( in thickness ) headstock, and solid steel truss rods, and it worked out fine. But I will never use poplar again, hard maple is so much superior, once you work out the proper techniques for it.
 
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Actually, all reissue Danelectros have standard double-acting truss rods, like any other modern guitar. The problem is that, while the original Korean reissues are generally very good quality, the later Chinese ones are spotty. I got one that had such a bobble in the neck that you had to grind the frets practically off to get it to play. I got it to work, but Danelectro also replaced the neck under warranty, they are actually quite good to deal with. Now that they've moved production back to Korea, the latest models are quite nice again.

The new Danelectro necks are nothing like the old ones in construction, they are more like Fenders - hard maple, truss rods, etc. I abandoned the first poplar neck I built - the headstock was not strong enough, and it had other issues related to being a prototype. I built the replacement with a subtly tapered ( in thickness ) headstock, and solid steel truss rods, and it worked out fine.

My Danelectro is a 1996 model and definitely does not have a truss rod, I wish it did because I absolutely love the guitar, but it is not very playable at times.
 
Wood does react lengthwise to changes in humidity, not as much as it does across the grain, but it still does. And that's why bassists and guitarists are bringing their instruments to me for setups - the neck will swell in length slightly as the humidity rises, and against the constriction of the truss rod, the neck bows backward slightly. Conversely, when the weather dries out thew wood contracts lengthwise and thus is marginally shorter than it was, but the truss rod is not affected by humidity, so it is the same length. Thus the neck will have less tension from the truss rod and will bow up slightly under string tension.

Yes, the wood has a similar coefficient of thermal expansion as steel, but it's the humidity at play here, not temperature.

Two percent being the difference between 0 and 100% humidity, or what? Is that relative or absolute? Is that a nitro or poly finish? What is it under real conditions? Much closer to zero, I think. I keep my guitars indoors under conditions that are comfortable to me, and there are no problems. Some people are simply obsessed with their setups, another form of cork-sniffing if you ask me. Guitar hypochondriacs.

I certainly respect your experience in these matters though. My point is that if the wood is properly constrained by a strong metal structure, none of this will happen. All theories aside, this has been my personal observation. I think of it almost as a steel structure with wood padding. ( And I repeat, talking about electrics, not acoustics, where a metal neck would sound like god-knows-what.) A floppy truss rod allows the wood to do whatever it wants, and you end up with these problems, which are no doubt a good business for you. :) On the other hand, I've never gotten my hands on a guitar, new or used, that couldn't benefit from a proper set up. I'm certainly not disputing the necessity of that.

What about Modulus and Steinberger? No wood in them at all. Which brings up the question, why are most guitars made like it is still the 1800s, or the 1600s? Very few people are willing to leave behind all the irrelevant traditions of acoustic instruments and use modern technology. Leo Fender did it with the Telecaster. Steinberger's ideas were brilliant, although the ergonomics of those little square bodies left something to be desired. Nathan Daniel figured out how to build a good electric guitar for a tenth the price of the big boys. The thing all of these people have in common is that none of them were luthiers. Unencumbered by all that luthier nonsense, they just built what worked best, refined by trial and error. That is called engineering.

Enough of this conversation. It could go on forever. There are plenty of truss rods out there for everyone to fiddle with to their heart's content, and as long as truss rods are adjustable, they will have to be adjusted. While I certainly appreciate other opinions, theories quoted out of context and actual results are two different things. I guess I could just as easily be hanging myself with that statement. Sometimes, the real world just refuses to go along with the theory. The Wright brothers figured that out, threw away all the textbooks and built the world's first wind tunnel, and the rest is history. Amazing how many things come from actually doing and not just cogitating. I suggest you build one my way and see how it works. But not a bass.

Cheers, and all success with your business !!!
 
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Wood changes dimension longitudinally between .1 and .2 % with varying moisture. Take the low end - that's .017" dimensional change on a 17" (guitar) neck. It doesn't seem like a lot, but it has a substantial effect.

A truss rod generally has 32 threads per inch. And a quarter turn on the truss rod (which is considered to be quite a bit in a setup) changes the working length of the truss rod by less than .008". So even though the longitudinal dimensional change in the neck as a result of humidity changes seems minuscule, it's still very significant when it comes to keeping a neck true. And since the humidity does change in most of our environments, there is a need for an adjustable rod that can compensate.
 
What about Modulus and Steinberger? No wood in them at all.
sadly, i've seen my share of all-CF instruments with no truss rods and up-bowed necks, too. both of those companies later came out with adjustable necks.
Take the neck off. It has a truss rod.
yep, every reissue dano i've ever seen had a truss rod, usually hidden at the butt of the neck.
 
sadly, i've seen my share of all-CF instruments with no truss rods and up-bowed necks, too. both of those companies later came out with adjustable necks.

That's because luthiers are not engineers, they don't understand materials or what they are doing with them. They hear that graphite is stronger than steel and you can make it into space ships, so they figure they can make a long skinny neck out of it and it will
Wood changes dimension longitudinally between .1 and .2 % with varying moisture. Take the low end - that's .017" dimensional change on a 17" (guitar) neck. It doesn't seem like a lot, but it has a substantial effect.

A truss rod generally has 32 threads per inch. And a quarter turn on the truss rod (which is considered to be quite a bit in a setup) changes the working length of the truss rod by less than .008". So even though the longitudinal dimensional change in the neck as a result of humidity changes seems minuscule, it's still very significant when it comes to keeping a neck true. And since the humidity does change in most of our environments, there is a need for an adjustable rod that can compensate.

. Not so. Graphite is strong in some senses, but it is hardly strong in others. Again, they fall back on 500 years or tradition that is irrelevant and obsolete, because that's all they know, and guitars are magic and exempt from the laws of physics, aren't they? Anyone in the business will tell you so.
 
Wood changes dimension longitudinally between .1 and .2 % with varying moisture. Take the low end - that's .017" dimensional change on a 17" (guitar) neck. It doesn't seem like a lot, but it has a substantial effect.

A truss rod generally has 32 threads per inch. And a quarter turn on the truss rod (which is considered to be quite a bit in a setup) changes the working length of the truss rod by less than .008". So even though the longitudinal dimensional change in the neck as a result of humidity changes seems minuscule, it's still very significant when it comes to keeping a neck true. And since the humidity does change in most of our environments, there is a need for an adjustable rod that can compensate.

I don't doubt that your adjustments make a difference. And I don't doubt that you're very good at it, and your customers get their money's worth. My point, which you seem to be missing, is that the adjustments are required because a wood neck with an adjustable rod is an inherently flawed design. The solution is actually the cause of the problem.

Imagine a neck where most of the force is carried by a steel bar, and the wood is mainly just there because it looks pretty. Properly designed, such a neck would never bend, never twist, never change at all, ever, and never need adjusting. If it elongates all of 17 thousandths of an inch, that would hardly even require re-tuning. The way you arrived at 17 thousandths, I would take a factor of 10 off for real life, so 2 thousandths. A human hair is 2-4 thousandths, so that is the kind of numbers you are fretting over - inconsequential.

Unless you have a neck that is designed so badly that it magnifies even minor atmospheric changes into a problem that has to be corrected, which is exactly what happens with a standard truss rod. You have a curved piece of metal inside a straight piece of wood, pushing it sideways in different directions at different places, and even the smallest change in the wood or the tension of the strings can force the entire assembly into a distinctly different equilibrium. It's a Rube Goldberg cartoon. A properly sized and installed steel bar is not going to do any of that, and it will simply overpower the far weaker wood and restrain it from moving at all. I've got a wall full of them, I've built them, it works, and the wood doesn't crack.

Yes, a guitar neck can benefit from a tiny little bit of relief, but it can also work just fine with none. I have them set up both ways, and they both play equally well. Which says to me, might as well skip all the complications and extra cost, and go with the simple solution that never needs to be fussed with. Unfortunately, you can't do this on a bass, and no manufacturer is willing to do it on a guitar, so don't fret, your job is secure.

The major problem stems from the fact that even under minimal stress, wood will creep over time, and requires some sort of reinforcement, which is actually the primary purpose of the truss rod. Adjustment is secondary, and it introduces a whole host of problems. Again, I do not dispute that these problems exist, I am merely pointing out that they are caused by their own solution, and the whole mess could be easily avoided.

Even on a brand new guitar, you can bet that the truss rod needs to be adjusted, right out of the box. That just shouldn't be necessary, and with a fixed rod, it wouldn't be. When you get a new car, do you immediately have to get an alignment?

A guitar is basically just a beam fixed at one end, under slight compression from some tiny wires strung down the length of one side at a small offset, which induces a small bending moment. This is not something magic, it is quite simple to analyze, it follows all the same rules as everything else in the universe. But when you add a bendy, twisty, not really attached complication like an adjustable truss rod, all bets are off, all you can do is fiddle with it and hope for the best.

The simplest and commonest truss rod design must be a single rod in a curved channel, anchored in the wood at both ends. The Fender "skunk stripe" design, and many others. This design derives its bending force by tightening the rod, which places the neck in compression, and the rod in tension. Since the rod is effectively curved due to the shape of the channel, and the heel is fixed, the effect will be to pull the headstock backwards. The effect of the tension in the rod is magnified by the length and shape of the neck.

So you have the steel acting against the wood longitudinally to produce a lateral force that results in a displacement at the headstock, which is going to be highly sensitive to the balance between the steel and wood components. And, as you pointed out, wood is not perfectly stable with respect to humidity. Even an infinitesimal change in the length of the wood is going to result in a significant change in the tension of the rod, which will in turn result in an exaggerated deflection of the headstock.

A system like this is totally unstable, you could end up adjusting it every day. The only reason you don't is that the wood is pretty well sealed away from the atmosphere by the finish, especially nowadays with poly finishes that are completely impervious. Maple fingerboards are also finished, while rosewood boards are very oily and relatively immune to moisture. The worst thing you could do to such a neck is sand off the finish and leave bare wood exposed to the air.

The fact that it takes just tiny adjustments to the rod - 1/8 turn on a 10-32 thread - shows just how overly sensitive such a setup is. Longitudinal changes are translated into lateral displacements ten times the size or more. Now remember, the rod was put there for long-term reinforcement of the wood against creep. But in the process, what this design does is introduce massive short-term instability. This design should have been abandoned on the drawing board. Instead, it has become ensconced in luthiery tradition.

Now take a properly designed adjustable truss rod, as found on pretty much any Asian or Mexican import guitar. It will have 2 steel rods that act against each-other, regardless of whether it is single or double acting. This internalizes all the longitudinal stresses to the steel, which is unaffected by humidity or even temperature. The rod is relatively free-floating in the channel, and imparts only a lateral force to the wooden neck. Infinitesimal elongations in the wood have no effect on this system. A neck like this will require practically no adjusting once it is set up, as the only variable left is the strings. This system actually works pretty well, although the wood is still prone to twisting and warping as it ages, and the truss rod is going to be no help with that.

Now take a solid steel bar. No adjustment possible, no adjustment necessary. If you did it right the neck is never going to move in any way, the wood can be regarded as little more than padding, although in some designs it actually contributes to the stability of the bars along their weaker axis.

I'll bet that 90% of your customers are "skunk stripes" or the equivalent. That rod design is just so bad, it is a good reason to buy an Epiphone instead of a Gibson, or a Squier instead of a Fender, or a Mexican over an American. I think those rods are also found in most Rics. Ric even took a step backward and went from the (relatively) well designed rod in my 4001 to a 'skunk stripe' in the 4003, although they claim it is better. My 4001 is actually quite stable. I'll bet you see a lot of 4003s.

Now that I look over my little collection, I see that I own quite a few skunk stripes, and they are not hysterically unstable. I credit that to the fact that they are well-sealed against humidity, and they are kept under relatively constant comfortable indoor conditions. In fact, under that totally impervious glass-like layer of poly, I don't think the wood has seen a change in moisture content since it left the factory. And while I do very fine setups, I am simply not a hair-splitter when it comes to playing. There is such a thing as 'good enough', in engineering, and in life, but apparently not in guitars. I wonder how many concerts Geddy Lee has canceled because of the humidity?

Finally, I must repeat for careless readers: I am talking about guitars, not basses. You simply cannot get away without an adjustable rod in a bass, but for a completely different reason. A bass needs a curved neck. A guitar strictly does not, although it is an option.

You seem like a capable guy. Go to the store, get some steel bars and a piece of maple and some other parts, you know what, and build a neck and see if it doesn't work just fine. I have. Or find a nice old Sears Silvertone that wasn't abused, and do your setup magic on that. See how it plays.

I think this reconciles everything you've said with everything I've said. I started this thread to talk about woodworking, not the metaphysics of Gibson's marketing department. Can we get back to that now?
 
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Wood does react lengthwise to changes in humidity, not as much as it does across the grain, but it still does. And that's why bassists and guitarists are bringing their instruments to me for setups - the neck will swell in length slightly as the humidity rises, and against the constriction of the truss rod, the neck bows backward slightly. Conversely, when the weather dries out thew wood contracts lengthwise and thus is marginally shorter than it was, but the truss rod is not affected by humidity, so it is the same length. Thus the neck will have less tension from the truss rod and will bow up slightly under string tension.

Yes, the wood has a similar coefficient of thermal expansion as steel, but it's the humidity at play here, not temperature.

Is that trussrod just under the fingerboard, or just under the thumb? Seems that if the wood swells (in most necks [unless you're ref'ing the fingerboard]) it will 'help' the strings, creating relative forward bow, and while shrinking , the opposite. But since the fingerboard (on most basses) has less moisture-inhibiting coatings than the neck wood, it should be more (and sooner) affected by any humidity change.
 
Is that trussrod just under the fingerboard, or just under the thumb? Seems that if the wood swells (in most necks [unless you're ref'ing the fingerboard]) it will 'help' the strings, creating relative forward bow, and while shrinking , the opposite. But since the fingerboard (on most basses) has less moisture-inhibiting coatings than the neck wood, it should be more (and sooner) affected by any humidity change.

Resinous woods like pines and oily rosewood are much less affected by humidity than dry hardwoods like maple and oak. Any furniture maker will tell you that. You can take 2 good sized pieces of oak, screw them together with the grains crossed, and watch them tear each other apart. But a lot of this also depends on the size of the piece. Small pieces are not going to build up large enough stresses to damage themselves, and guitar necks fall much more into the small category than the large. Of course, if you keep all the grains aligned, there is no problem at all, and isn't that how guitar necks are made?

Real life is more complicated than just quoting a number from a book. Especially if that number isn't even right.

I know that for the necks I build, the truss rod ends up pretty much down the dead center of the neck.
 
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Take the neck off. It has a truss rod. And it probably needs to be adjusted. Because it can be.

I stand corrected, I feel kind of silly now. I am an experienced builder and tech, and I have had that guitar for almost 20 years and never knew it had a truss rod. I read somewhere that it didn't a long time ago an have never questioned it because it is totally hidden without taking the neck off.
 
I tend to disagree with the theory that truss rods are used to compensate for a bad neck angle. You can adjust a truss rod to make the action look likes its low, but it will buzz all over the place on the first few frets.

Right! It doesn't work that way, but it gets used like that anyway. Such instruments are "dogs". Ones that are only slightly doggy get sold anyway, to kiddies who don't know any better, and probably can't even tell. Obvious dogs go in the furnace. A high reject rate gets expensive. You can bet the manufacturers do this. They're going to push that truss rod just as far as they have to, and then palm it off on somebody unsuspecting, especially with all the mail-ordering that goes on nowadays.

A through-neck guitar is likely to come out of manufacturing pretty straight, but a glued-in set neck is a different story. Of course, a bolt-on can always be shimmed, but even a bolt-on is more likely to come out straight than a set neck, and not need a shim anyway.

Neck-Tenon-Length-Comparison.jpg

These are cutaways of actual Gibson necks. Yikes, look at that first one. You'd think in a factory with specialized tooling they could make these angles pretty accurately, but that first one with the round bottom just screams NO !!! Even the other two, the thinness of the body under the neck is disturbing, and all in brittle mahogany. Give me a Fender bolt-on any day over this !!!
 
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True- but how much moisture gets thru a poly-coated neck, and into the wood far enough to affect it, and how fast?

A poly-coated neck will react less than an oiled one, and will also be slower to react. But they still react. When the seasons change and humidity either climbs or drops for an extended period, the first ones to show up at the shop for a setup are those with oiled necks, followed a week or so later by those with thin nitro finishes, and finally a couple of weeks later by those with poly-coated necks.
 
A poly-coated neck will react less than an oiled one, and will also be slower to react. But they still react. When the seasons change and humidity either climbs or drops for an extended period, the first ones to show up at the shop for a setup are those with oiled necks, followed a week or so later by those with thin nitro finishes, and finally a couple of weeks later by those with poly-coated necks.

Yeah, sort-a what I thought...
so a fingerboard/ fretboard on one side (of the trussrod) reacts quicker (usually) than the encapsulated wood of the neck???
 
Yeah, sort-a what I thought...
so a fingerboard/ fretboard on one side (of the trussrod) reacts quicker (usually) than the encapsulated wood of the neck???

If the fingerboard is unfinished it will naturally be more reactive to changes in the environment. Oily fingerboard woods will be less quick to react. Moisture will also penetrate (or exit) most finishes used on the neck of the guitar. It all happens within a short period of time, a few days or a few weeks.

It doesn't really matter. When the neck changes an adjustment is needed to allow the strings to have the same relationship to the fingerboard as before the change.
 
Ha, yeah good stuff shared, for sure.

'alder'- thanks for sharing the work and ideas w/ those jigs-
it takes a bit of forethought to devise a jig that gets predictable results,
and multi-function jigs even more. The simplicity/efficiency of function is what really makes them.
Thanks for sharing, along with the ideas behind some of it.
Staying 'tuned'.

Sorry for the divergent posts along the way- some things are better explained (tho maybe in a diff thread?).