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Built crossover for Avatar cab horn

#61
Steve Bennett said:
if the tweeter levels are adjusted to the same output level (actual output, not knob position), will the new one sound noticeably better? If so, I'll order 3 of them for my cabs.
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It has nothing to do with the output level. If your read this thread from the beginning it's all explained.
 
#64
Actually the new crossovers do have an additional attenuation circuit (2 resistors in an L configuration) which reduces the tweet level by 3dB. My experience is that such a mild reduction is easily picked up with recorded music playing through the cab, but is barely noticable in a bass cab application.

The old crossover was a simple high pass filter for the horn only. The new one adds a Low pass filter to the woofers as well, robbing then of some high mids. This makes for a more traditional sounding cab with less "cut".

My concern with the new crossovers is the use of inductors with ferrite cores. My experience is that then can intruduce unwanted distortion to the sound whan used in high wattage applications. I'll use then for <100W Hi-Fi, but not for 400W+ Bass cabs.

But as you rightly point out, this is all theory. I haven't heard the cabs and some input from those who have would be appreciated. The crossovers are different enough that there should be a change in the cabs sound. Wether or not that change is for the better is pure opinion.
 
#65
I have Avatar B212 Neo and B410 Neo with the new crossovers.

I am going to do the "Burdizzos Mod" and replace the tweets with GALAXY AUDIO S5N-8 5" NEODYMIUM FULL RANGE DRIVERs.

Specifications: *Power handling: 100 watts continuous/200 watts max *VCdia: 1" *Impedance: 8 ohms *Re: 7.03 ohms *Frequency response: 150-18,000 Hz *Fs: 130 Hz *SPL: 95 dB 1W/1m *Vas: 0.065 cu. ft. *Qms: 1.14 *Qes: 0.66 *Qts: 0.42

My amp can push at least 4X the rated watts at these drivers so I need to protect them from that, but I should be able to crossover lower than 3K Hz.

The Deltalite 2512 has peak SPL around 2.5K Hz and the Deltalite 2510 peaks around 3K Hz.

So does a 4th order Linkwitz crossover at 2.2K or 2.5K sound like a good way to go? Or even 2K or 1.5K?

Or will the factory Avatar (new model) crossover work well enough with these drivers?

:help:
 
#67
billfitzmaurice said:
Not a good idea. They have insufficient sensitivity and would require a separate sub-enclosure inside the cabinet.
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Wrong.

The sensitivity is just fine. You can cross them over at 500 Hz and they sound awesome.

As for the sub enclosure, it's a good idea, but I've built cabs with and without the sub enclosure and it really doesn't make much difference.

If the cab is ported, the 5" isn't going to jump around like some folks would assume.

I used the standard Galaxy driver on my Avatar B212 with and without a sub enclosure and I couldn't hear the difference. The Standard Galaxy driver is 3 dB less sensitive than the Neo version and it still holds its own against the 2x12 configuration. I ran that cab with a Sunn 1200s and never had a problem.

I used a Galaxy Neo on my home made 1x12 Deltalite loaded cab and the two are pretty well matched, but I found myself rolling off the highs a little bit.
 
#68
The sensitivity is just fine. You can cross them over at 500 Hz and they sound awesome.
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If it's OK with you it's OK with me, but I'd rather my midrange not be 6dB or more lower in sensitivity than my woofers.
As for the sub enclosure, it's a good idea, but I've built cabs with and without the sub enclosure and it really doesn't make much difference. If the cab is ported, the 5" isn't going to jump around like some folks would assume.
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To each their own, but two things happen with no midrange sub-enclosure. First, the pressure wave from the woofers will push the cone of the mid, modulating its output. With enough power applied it would push the mid cone beyond its excursion limit and destroy the driver. Second, the unenclosed mid driver will act as a passive radiator, altering the tuning of the cabinet and changing the response of the woofers. Again, if it doesn't bother you that's certainly OK, but I wouldn't be recommending it to anyone else.
 
#69
To sub-enclose or not to sub-enclose, that is the question. But why debate it when something like the "Beyma VM30" is so cheap and easy to install........

I tried linking to it but it didn't work. You'll find it at Link Removed and click on "accessories". Going price seems to be $5.5Euro's ($6.65US).
 
#70
billfitzmaurice said:
If it's OK with you it's OK with me, but I'd rather my midrange not be 6dB or more lower in sensitivity than my woofers.

To each their own, but two things happen with no midrange sub-enclosure. First, the pressure wave from the woofers will push the cone of the mid, modulating its output. With enough power applied it would push the mid cone beyond its excursion limit and destroy the driver. Second, the unenclosed mid driver will act as a passive radiator, altering the tuning of the cabinet and changing the response of the woofers. Again, if it doesn't bother you that's certainly OK, but I wouldn't be recommending it to anyone else.
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We're talking about bass cabs, not hi-fi cabs. The reduction in sensitivity on the high end actually works well. That, and I currently play through an Eden amp, so the "flat" setting on and Eden more than makes up for the lost high end. The 5" is crossed over at 700 Hz or so and the woofer just rolls off, so I actually get a nice mid bump as a result.

I'm not recommending anything, I'm just calling it as it is rather than making assumptions about something that I've never played or heard.

The Galaxy should be in a sub enclosure for the best performance, but if you don't drive the hell out of your cabs, you can get away with just mounting them in the front baffle and they will last a long time and work just fine.
 
#71
Im still wondering on the difference in sound between the old and new Avatar crossovers. Ive been gigging with the Avatar 2 12LF 4ohm for about 4 months (bought in Feb 06) and i love it. I had an Ampeg setup before, classic 410 and 115, and I dont miss them a bit. I mainly use a Ken Smith BSR5J and a Warmoth fretless w/EMG's. My amps an Ampeg SVP Pro paired with a Crown Power Bass 3. Anyway, seems like Im lacking a little mids in my sound. The tweeter does hiss a little turning past 50%. I was thinking about replacing the foster tweeter, and possibly the crossover, but theres not to many threads on the new Avatar crossovers. Anybody out there with any input?
 
#75
#77
I'm going to build and install two of these in my Avatar 410Neo's. To me tweeters usually suck. Maybe now they will suck less. Sure can't hurt the sound of them. I can still turn them off, if they continue to suck. To me, it's not just Avatars tweeters. The pair of Yamaha BBT110S cabs I had, had Beyma tweeters in them and they sucked too. Anything to tame them down a bit, can't be a bad thing.
 
#78
joegeezer said:
I'm going to build and install two of these in my Avatar 410Neo's. To me tweeters usually suck. Maybe now they will suck less. Sure can't hurt the sound of them. I can still turn them off, if they continue to suck. To me, it's not just Avatars tweeters. The pair of Yamaha BBT110S cabs I had, had Beyma tweeters in them and they sucked too. Anything to tame them down a bit, can't be a bad thing.
Click to expand...

Did you get around to doing this? What's the verdict?

I like a little tweeter in my tone. The Foster horn is a little abrasive. Would I need to change the tweeter and the crossover?

Bill, where would I get a good 4th order crossover for a decent price?
 

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