cab idea: 4x10 "in line, vertical stack" -been done?

[stedtale]

Well, here's my LDS:

Link Removed
?

So, you bought the other one. I have the right half of that picture

and now for my next trick, back to the thread...

 

[Kenny Allyn]

Most 2x10 cabs were not actually designed to stack end to end but I see no reason for it not to work well, kinda tall though.

The Euphonic Audio VL-208s were designed to be stacked that way, and the results of stacking them is stunning ...

They use 8s and 4s in a three-way design, so 8s may be the way to go size wise in a one piece cab.

... The whole rig fits in the trunk of my Toyota convertible http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/kennyallyn/trunkopen.jpg

 

[Christian Waiau]

If Ampeg made that, it'd take 4-6 months on a boat to ship it from Asia!

then i'd better pick my stop out on the beach and wait!

 

[seamonkey]

But ... it has been done and you can buy one today. It is called an Ampeg 8x10. Of course it is two stacks of four speakers side by side and there is room for the amp up top.

I really do not know what the advantage is of a single row of four. One has to remember that part of the sound of a cabinet is made by the shape and internal configuration of the wooden box itself.

It's all about interference. On the horizontal you can play with this applet:
http://www.falstad.com/interference/
The dark spots and places where the sound cuts out.
Low freqs are OK - mid and high causes a lot of interference.
Seems like all big FOH systems are all going line-array. And it sounds better.

 

[A9X]

It's all about interference. On the horizontal you can play with this applet:
http://www.falstad.com/interference/
The dark spots and places where the sound cuts out.
Low freqs are OK - mid and high causes a lot of interference.
Seems like all big FOH systems are all going line-array. And it sounds better.

Yup, never understood square config cabs. Stupid arrangement. Never understood the attraction of multiple 10's either where a well implemented multiway cab just sounds better.

 

[seamonkey]

Yup, never understood square config cabs. Stupid arrangement. Never understood the attraction of multiple 10's either where a well implemented multiway cab just sounds better.

As I understand it's a lot to due with legacy. X -by-X speaker arrangements were created at the time because speakers couldn't handle the new higher powered amps, so they had to add more drivers. They have a look, and classic bands still use the look, so there is lots of sticking power.

 

[A9X]

As I understand it's a lot to due with legacy. X -by-X speaker arrangements were created at the time because speakers couldn't handle the new higher powered amps, so they had to add more drivers. They have a look, and classic bands still use the look, so there is lots of sticking power.

Absolutely, and back in the day it was still more about wringing more SPL from low power amps. However you only need to read Olson, who's work was available before then to have even a cursory understanding of how it works acoustically.

The 'square' config is also a dog to move, where a vertical, especially 2 stacked 2x cabs is a lot easier to move. Handtrucks have also been available for a long time.

 

[BassmanPaul]

I pretty much always stack my Acme B2's vertically. Andy recomends using the cabs vertically anyway. With my amp rack on top the whole thing takes a small footprint, sounds great and is completely stable. Only problem is lifting the rack case that high! Having been born late in life, I'm not as young as I once was!!!

Paul

 

[BassmanPaul]

MMMMmmmmmm, What about stacking all four B2's vertically. Nah! I've got a bad head for heights and I'd need a ladder to adjust the controls. I'm a little short old fart I is!!

Paul

 

[JonathanD]

Using 2 acme 210s... if the room sucks bass then I put them both wide(Square), if the stage floor is boomy or the room is I stack them as you describe in a tall rectangle.

don't see how it would be any benefit over 2 210 cabs. Also many cars are just wide enough for a 48 in tall cab... but just barely.

 

[Emergancy Exit]

it would be nice to set them horizontal. you wound have more speakers in contact with the floor. i know of a few bassists that do that with 8x10slive. like in my children of bodom he has an 8x10 horizontal behind him

 

[bradjonesbass]

Well, TBH it was just a thought that flitted across my brain, and knowing that it would be a very difficult set of search terms, I just posted a new thread. That said, I have played on so many tiny stages, where we had not just speakers but sometimes one or more band members playing off the side of the stage platform (seriously!) that having a cab that occupies a minimal footprint would be very practical and valuable to me.

Now that I'm thinking about it more, I think a 3-way design with 3 vertical 10's, and a 5 and a tweeter (or some similar/better mids/highs arrangement) vertically above the 3 10's would suit me just fine.

I have an LDS cab and love it, but I've been exchanging many emails with Don over the last couple of weeks, and I'm actually losing faith.

Is he not receptive to your build ideas? Just curious why you're losing faith... I'm going back to him for my next build, that's for sure.

 

[erochelle77]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[bongomania]

Is [Don at LDS] not receptive to your build ideas? Just curious why you're losing faith... I'm going back to him for my next build, that's for sure.

I emailed him with a very clear and detailed description of what I'm looking for, with specific questions, and he emails back a week later that he has a cab that's only semi-related, and doesn't answer my questions. I email back the same day with greater clarification of what I'm looking for, and more specific and clear questions. He emails back a week later saying essentially "Duh, what?" I email back pronto saying "here is what I want in the simplest possible terms, is it something you can do?" He emails back two weeks later... "so what do you want?"

*bangs head against desk repeatedly*

Seriously, the LDS cab I bought off Tom B. is excellent, with rich, fat clear tone in a size/shape that's as big as I can comfortably carry with one hand, so obviously Don is no fool. He can make a killer cab, no question. But this exchange of emails has me thinking there is a chimp on the other end of the line. I should call him by phone, but I need to wait until the frustration has evaporated so I don't say anything snide to him.

 

[4Mal]

Where that or the two 2x10 scenarios falls down is that the tweeters/horns are not coupling or operating as a poor-man's line array, if that's part of the desired design goal. Far better to have one high-quality horn and compression driver anyway.

Actually if one wasn't adverse to a large bulky cab the vertical 410 could end up being rack-width and then you'd also be able to get better bass response out of the 10" drivers typically used in Tens cabs.

I sort of did that with Bag End. 2 2x10's, 1 with the co-ax tweet. I'm not wild about tweeters - even good ones - so the tweet was in the lower cab, but oriented in the upper driver. THe top cab was tweeterless.

That setup was fantastic on stage. Really audibe at relatively low volumes.

 

[MarkMyWordsXx]

imo its a really dumb idea. it would make it so much less portable, youd knock it over really eaisely if it was standing up, and if it was laying down it would be even more useless.

if it was worth doing, dont you think someone would have done it already?

 

[bongomania]

if it was worth doing, dont you think someone would have done it already?

That is not the way I approach life.

 

[A9X]

imo its a really dumb idea. it would make it so much less portable, youd knock it over really eaisely if it was standing up, and if it was laying down it would be even more useless.

It makes it more portable; two 2x10's are easier to get in an out of most vehicles, can stack on a handtruck, will fit directly through doorways and are more manageable weights individually.

It's no more likely to fall over unless you crash into it bodily, at which point any cab will go over. If you jump around on stage a lot, have some awareness of the space around you and it won't be a problem. Vertically, you'll get a driver closer to ear level, where it's actually easier to hear what you're doing far more clearly that it blanting into your knees. It'll also take up less stage space, which is often an issue in smaller venues.

You made one statement I agree with; laying them both down is worse than useless.

if it was worth doing, dont you think someone would have done it already?

Right Most MI stuff is how it is because of market inertia and players expecting what they know.

You're a real 'think outside the square' sort of guy aren't you?

 

[el_Kabong]

It makes it more portable; two 2x10's are easier to get in an out of most vehicles, can stack on a handtruck, will fit directly through doorways and are more manageable weights individually.

It's no more likely to fall over unless you crash into it bodily, at which point any cab will go over. If you jump around on stage a lot, have some awareness of the space around you and it won't be a problem. Vertically, you'll get a driver closer to ear level, where it's actually easier to hear what you're doing far more clearly that it blanting into your knees. It'll also take up less stage space, which is often an issue in smaller venues.

You made one statement I agree with; laying them both down is worse than useless.

Right Most MI stuff is how it is because of market inertia and players expecting what they know.

You're a real 'think outside the square' sort of guy aren't you?

Some of you guys really like to state your preferences/ideas as 'facts' don't you? A cabinet that is taller and has a smaller base is obviously less stable. The statement 'at which point any cab will go over' is just nonsense. Some people DO jump around on stage as part of their show and it IS a consideration for them. I don't, but I've played on more than one dodgy temporary stage that's had my rig swaying precariously. Who are you to just dismiss those concerns?

A modern 60lb 410 is a very easy move. Not only is it a one handed lift, hardly unmanagable, but it's also one trip and not two. The handcart that makes the two cabs a single trip takes up space in the gigmobile, maybe space that you don't have, and a pair of 210s is usually larger than a single 410. The handcart argument is a bit like me saying my 410 is easy to move because my drummer carries it.

Even the statement that makes a blanket condemnation of lying the cabs down is just myopic opinion. I could easily envisage situations where putting a pair of 210's directly on the stage to get more bottom would be the most effective compromise, playing outdoors with limited wattage would be an obvious one.

There are reasons that the 410 is a popular solution, and it's not just stupidity and ignorance. There are compromises in every option, which is why there is more than a single solution available.

What was that about thinking outside one's square?

 

[bradjonesbass]

I emailed him with a very clear and detailed description of what I'm looking for, with specific questions, and he emails back a week later that he has a cab that's only semi-related, and doesn't answer my questions. I email back the same day with greater clarification of what I'm looking for, and more specific and clear questions. He emails back a week later saying essentially "Duh, what?" I email back pronto saying "here is what I want in the simplest possible terms, is it something you can do?" He emails back two weeks later... "so what do you want?"

*bangs head against desk repeatedly*

Seriously, the LDS cab I bought off Tom B. is excellent, with rich, fat clear tone in a size/shape that's as big as I can comfortably carry with one hand, so obviously Don is no fool. He can make a killer cab, no question. But this exchange of emails has me thinking there is a chimp on the other end of the line. I should call him by phone, but I need to wait until the frustration has evaporated so I don't say anything snide to him.

As Ken's said before, Don's not much of an email guy. Call him instead. Plus, I know he's been extremely busy lately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMyWordsXx
if it was worth doing, dont you think someone would have done it already?

That is not the way I approach life.

No kidding... Thankfully Leo Fender didn't approach life that way either.