cab idea: 4x10 "in line, vertical stack" -been done?

[greenboy]

A modern 60lb 410 is a very easy move.

There's nothing all that modern about the 2x2 driver alignment a "modern" 410 has; it's a recipe for comb filtering when varying listening positions and that's why its avoided in sound reinforcement designs. Also the short squat setup doesn't get midrange or high frequency dispersion near the ears of the player which makes what he hears different than what is heard farther away, which seems to be why bongo is exploring alternative cab designs.

I also wonder how many people get another cab under their 410 thinking they are not loud enough or that their tone is too this way or that way, when just getting some of the directional output near the ears would often solve the problem, and give a truer representation of their actual tone.

Even the statement that makes a blanket condemnation of lying the cabs down is just myopic opinion. I could easily envisage situations where putting a pair of 210's directly on the stage to get more bottom would be the most effective compromise, playing outdoors with limited wattage would be an obvious one.

Be much better to have a stage rig that makes enough lows for one's preference to start with (and roll some off when its not needed, and thus gain a lot of headroom for drivers that all-too-easily overexcurd). Also better to have some midrange sourcing up near the ears, and not have some false impression of what the tonal balance is.

Please disregard this if you play laying down in front of your cabs.

There are reasons that the 410 is a popular solution, and it's not just stupidity and ignorance.

Bongo didn't ask for a 410 design however - I think he's already familiar with them ; }

 

[MarkMyWordsXx]

There's nothing all that modern about the 2x2 driver alignment a "modern" 410 has;

im pretty sure hes talking about the cabs being modern(drivers more specifically, since he brought up weight) not the allignment.

someone said 2x10s are eaiser to get through doors and into cars. great, but do you carry them togther stacked end to end?

to bongomania, were not talking about your life. were talking about somethings thats been beat to death(cab design) and exploited every which way. im saying that if theres one design thats never used by anyone, dont you think there might be a reason?

why are we trying to get bass to ear leavel? 1. if your playing on a stage thats more then a foot or so a 4x10 would be near ear leavel anyway. 2. if your having problems cutting through, either boost your mids or play guitar.

if you wanna go out and design your own cab, go for it. its not like you would accomplish the same thing by stacking 2 2x10s ontop of eachother..

 

[BassJunkie730]

whatever you do - i'd recommend a 2 210 option rather than four tens in one.

more options and if properly designed - will sound exactly like one of the 210s alone just louder.

go for two BFD omni 10s

very efficient

and about 52" high


plus i think there is a pic around here of Vic stacking two EA 210s with a t-funk on top

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I could easily envisage situations where putting a pair of 210's directly on the stage to get more bottom would be the most effective compromise, playing outdoors with limited wattage would be an obvious one.

Point of fact: doing so will not give you more bottom. Bass response at 100 Hz and below is the same with the cab on the floor/ground or elevated 2.8 feet above it. There is a perception of having more bottom, but that's only the result of not being able to hear the directional midrange and high frequencies as well.

 

[bongomania]

to bongomania, were not talking about your life. were talking about somethings thats been beat to death(cab design) and exploited every which way. im saying that if theres one design thats never used by anyone, dont you think there might be a reason?

The thing is, cab design has not actually been beaten to death. We are all the time marveling at newer, better, lighter, more efficient designs. El Whappo, Schroeder, Wizzy, etc. Although I wasn't fond of the Wizzy tone, it really is a marvel of efficiency and projection- and yet most old-school cab people would have said you couldn't get that much clean sound out of such a tiny box, using a single 12". Same thing for the Schroe 210's. There is still plenty of room for new design developments.

twhy are we trying to get bass to ear leavel? 1. if your playing on a stage thats more then a foot or so a 4x10 would be near ear leavel anyway. 2. if your having problems cutting through, either boost your mids or play guitar.

First, it doesn't matter how high the stage is, if you're standing on the stage. Second, boosting your mids may be a good way to cut through, but that means making some other compromise, such as lowering the relative gain of the highs and lows. Whereas putting a mids driver up closer to ear level will allow you to hear everything much better and clearer without losing any highs or lows projected in the mix.

 

[Foamy]

I do it all the time. Works great. CXC110 combo has a WT405 head in it. All cabs are 8 ohms, so the stack is 2 ohms at 600 watts. Takes up a smaller footprint on stage than I do. Sounds sweet.

Pull the other one, then!

 

[billfitzmaurice]

boosting your mids may be a good way to cut through, .

The ear is far more sensitive to mids than to either lows or highs, so if you have to boost mids to hear yourself there's something wrong with your speaker positioning. The bad news with respect to mids is that they are highly directional, especially if you don't have an eight inch or smaller midrange driver for them. If your cab isn't tall enough or isn't aimed upwards so that the mids have a reasonably direct line to your ears and you boost them to hear them you're probably making them too prominent in the audience.

 

[GreyBeard]

I'm imagining a 410 with all 4 in a vertical straight line, in a tall thin box. Has anybody done that? Would it be inefficient or difficult to tune compared to the normal 4-square config?

Sure, 2 x 2x10 cabs stacked end to end, gives great dispersion.

 

[Funkus Barfucal]

Yup, never understood square config cabs. Stupid arrangement. Never understood the attraction of multiple 10's either where a well implemented multiway cab just sounds better.

Has anybody checked out JTR's Triple 12?

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. Maybe it could be worth a look for some?

Just my .002 worth.

 

[bongomania]

That does have some cool attributes:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

A 3-way, full range system that includes two 12” vented woofers, and one 12” midrange coaxial with a 1” compression driver. Highly efficient, tremendous output and transparent sound make it suitable for a wide variety of applications. Available with coaxial centered or on top for vertical or horizontal use.

The only notable downsides are: they say it only goes down to 70 Hz, it's 85 lbs, and it costs a grand. If they could make one with more bass extension and lighter weight, though, it might be worth a grand.

 

[el_Kabong]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]




.....Available with coaxial centered or on top for vertical or horizontal use.

Idiots.

 

[bongomania]

I know you're just poking fun, but on their site they show that model stacked horizontally on top of a giant subwoofer cab, so I don't think they meant "horizontally on the stage floor".

 

[tonyhoff]

**** it, just play through a BH760 and a couple of KF760s with a few thousand watts behind it.. you'll sound like a real PA.. haha!