Ampless for about 5 years now. Best thing ever. The Porter & Davies tactile monitor with Ultimate Ears IEM's are a killer combination.
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Cab-less, anyone?
- Thread starter ctbass
- Start date
popgadget
Commercial User
- Sep 4, 2005
- 1,233
- 942
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- Authorized Greenboy Designs Builder, Scabbey Road
I use IEM’s often with no cab or monitor and have no complaints with what I hear with my current setup. It’s a real pleasure to hear what I want to hear and at a volume that I want. I usually end up with a mix that is the same or very similar to what’s going to FOH.
I think that custom molds are a must, as well as a good transmitter/receiver. I use Westone buds with Sennheiser electronics, and am very pleased with what I feel and hear. I use a Tech 21 Para Driver for an “amp” to feed the monitor /FOH mix.
I think that custom molds are a must, as well as a good transmitter/receiver. I use Westone buds with Sennheiser electronics, and am very pleased with what I feel and hear. I use a Tech 21 Para Driver for an “amp” to feed the monitor /FOH mix.
My growing beef with ampless stages is that as an audience member, the sound tends to suck if you stand right up front and center close to the stage - you get to hear drums and maybe some vocal.
I've been to a lot of gigs in this scenario where I'm standing in front of a killer 5 piece band on stage and all I hear is cymbals and a little vocals. Huge disappointment.
I've been to a lot of gigs in this scenario where I'm standing in front of a killer 5 piece band on stage and all I hear is cymbals and a little vocals. Huge disappointment.
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If you're happy with the sound, then by all means keep doing it. You just made your life on stage less complex and have a lot less gear to schlep.
I've tried going with IEMs - and I simply cannot get used to them. I need the sound of a speaker to hear and feel what I'm doing. I don't need a big loud rig, but I have to be able to hear myself.
I've tried going with IEMs - and I simply cannot get used to them. I need the sound of a speaker to hear and feel what I'm doing. I don't need a big loud rig, but I have to be able to hear myself.
Me too. My whole band was on IEM for about a year before I got mine. For my first few IEM gigs I still used my amp on stage. A few times I forgot to turn the amp on and I, nor anyone else in the band, even noticed the difference that we had just done an entire set with no bass amp. That’s when I realized I didn’t miss the vibrations/feeling from my cab behind me. I didn’t even notice they were missing or realize the amp was off. So now the amp stays home and I couldn’t be happier. Our guitarist even just got that new Strymon Iridium guitar amp/cab sim, so we now have absolutely no amps/cabs on stage and it sounds/feels great!
This is a common problem if the PA system doesn't include a separate front-fill (or near-fill) speaker system, which is a refinement that's always been necessary but is becoming more so for just that reason. When you find yourself in that situation, it seems logical to move off to the side or back enough to be in the full field of the main PA system.
As a long-time FOH engineer, I infinitely prefer a mixing a band using IEMs, but a friend who runs a successful cover band told me they switched from ears back to floor monitors because the lack of stage sound led audience members to suspect they weren't really playing at all, but merely miming playing.
Other random observations about going cab-less:
Most monitor speakers make lousy bass amplification systems.
@popgadget is correct in saying that good IEM drivers (which are not cheap, BTW) and custom ear-molds are necessary for in-ears to work properly. And if you're going wireless, it might be advisable to make provisions to be able to 'hard-wire' your monitor rig, just in case.
My audiologist has made me solemnly swear to never use just one ear bud.
Many of us do wear shorts in the summer here in AZ. With many evening venues having outside stages and temps remaining in triple digits well into the evening, the band stands can get pretty close. YMMV, but at some point common sense prevails.
To your OP, yes, def trend towards gigs with no cabs; brought to you courtesy of Behringer producing affordable digital boards and front singers sick of not being able to hear themselves.
Also, as you mention, the standard procedure calls for giving up your volume and tone to the sound engineer. In theory, there are a numerous good reasons for that method. In practice, there are some seriously dark aspects; mostly related to the knowledge / skill or absence thereof of the sound tech. Great sound techs, no issues. Family relatives / friends who get the iPad....numerous possibilities, many of them painful. Just depends.
One of my gigs, which has been cab-less for a couple of years now is attempting a somewhat hybrid approach; where the IEM’s are fed by mics in the house, and the family friend / relative with the iPad gets three faders - Instrumental volume, Vocals volume, and Master volume. That way, the musicians set the mix levels based on hearing each other, while the sound tech makes sure the vocals are clear and keeps the house level appropriate. So far, it seems to be working.
Also ampless for years. A pre and a board, and I'm good. I'm UB tho, so electric bass I dunno if I'd like that... depends on the act I guess.
Yes when the space constraints do not allow for my full rig I have gigged just the head to FOH with IEM
this gig was outside on a small grass area
this gig was outside on a small grass area
Yep, there is one venue like that in my town, ca. 200-300 capacity. You can stand right in front of the stage there, but when an ampless band shows up, you hear jack all, only drums.
Frankly, whenever I try to research something about going ampless, it seems to me that IEM rigs, and being a musician that carries just an instrument, a pair of in ears and a DI, truly work only in scenarios where having a traditional rig wouldn't cause an issue anyway. That means playing gigs where you earn so much you hire your own PA and soundmen, amongst other things. Any event below that level and you are at the mercy of unknown equipment and staff that more often than not aren't up to your (or anyone's) standards, or having to carry and operate your own PA, which defeats the convenience of having 'a guitar and IEMs only', that is so pushed as a selling argument in adverts and demos for DI solutions and digital boards.
I've been IEM's for about 4-5 years and totally ampless for about a year. I play through a Sansamp programmable bass DI. Guitarist is also ampless. I can't remember what he plays through ....something like a Kemper. I don't miss the stage volume wars and I love my IEM mix. With the electronic board it's stereo and effects as I like it.
My back appreciates it and our sound has never been better.
My back appreciates it and our sound has never been better.
This is the friggin truth right here. I hate not being self-sufficient (at least as much as I can control anyway). Things I've experienced:
- Venue has a PA, but one of the monitors doesn't work
- We brought our own PA but the venue insists we use theirs
- Venue told us they had a PA, so we didn't bring ours...but when we got there it turns out they didn't
- Guy who runs the PA didn't show up to work tonight, one of our "regulars" will do it
- Guy who runs the PA is really just a random bartender
- Guy who runs the PA is wasted before soundcheck
- Guy who runs the PA is the guitar player's friend, so he makes sure his buddy is louder than everyone else
And on and on
I bring the PA and run the sound at 90% of my gigs. I have just played three shows recently using only a Headrush Pedalboard directly into the mixer. Less to carry, more room on stage, I thought everything went well at each of the shows and was happy with my sound. I use a EX-ZLX 15 powered speaker for a monitor. No complaints from the other band members. I also use a wireless instrument system so I can go out front with my bass during sound check and check the FOH mix. I think this is the way I will operate going forward.
I’ve done most things at some point- full amp, small monitor amp, direct with wedges, direct with ear buds. I’ve come to prefer in ears with pretty much a mirror of what’s coming out of the PS. Really helps blending my instrument volume and BGV properly.
My band is currently running no cabs as well.
The heart of my rig is my BTB 576, some delay and chorus pedals, and a Sansamp VT Bass Deluxe to our rack setup. The rack gear splits my signal to FOH and also to my IEM mix. I plan on swapping the pedal board for a Helix of some kind soon.
To be honest I really thought I was going to hate not having "My Sound" through my LH1000 and Ampeg cabs, but I am happy to keep all that stuff at home now for shedding purposes. My back and set up/breakdown time have been saved greatly as well.
The heart of my rig is my BTB 576, some delay and chorus pedals, and a Sansamp VT Bass Deluxe to our rack setup. The rack gear splits my signal to FOH and also to my IEM mix. I plan on swapping the pedal board for a Helix of some kind soon.
To be honest I really thought I was going to hate not having "My Sound" through my LH1000 and Ampeg cabs, but I am happy to keep all that stuff at home now for shedding purposes. My back and set up/breakdown time have been saved greatly as well.
Only played a couple of places that had us run everything through their FOH. Bear in mind I've been playing gigs with amp and cab since 1966. So I feel a bit naked without them. This one place has a massive 18" subwoofer that the owner is very proud of, but it only gets the frequencies of 150Hz and lower and I was very skeptical. Nonetheless I plugged my WTDI (DI with built-in Eden preamp and compressor in a stompbox) into his snake and ran it through the board. He had monitors for each of us and we got a decent mix on stage.
Now his room offers some challenges because it is a long room and it's hard to get good sound throughout without blasting the folks up front. After the first set with no amps on stage we took a break and asked some folks who follow us from club to club how the sound was. They said it was great - as good or better than any other place we've played. So that put our minds at ease and the only one who really had to spend time setting up there after that was the drummer.
Other times I've played through the FOH were when we arrived at that small brew pub where we host an open mic on Friday nights and the amp I use was gone. Owner said, "Oh yeah, that was Joe's amp and he took it home. Were you using that?" A bit disingenuous perhaps because the first time I played there the owner was the one that insisted I roll my 410 back out to my car, and use that little 112 combo instead. So I pulled out my trusty WTDI, plugged into the PA and played like that for a couple of weeks before I bought a small set-up specifically to use there.
Personally though, I have to say that I really prefer the sound I get out of my Eden amp into my DNA cabs. Those cabs just have the best sound and I don't get that in a FOH system. Now my Eden amps really sound good through any cabs, but through the DNA cabs they really sound great. That's no surprise really because the same guy, David Nordschow, designed both of them. They just have a clarity to them that I haven't heard in any other cabs. So, unless I am forced to do run entirely through the FOH, I will at least be bringing my DNS-210 cab with me and will be looking for an excuse to bring out my DNS-410.
