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Can you play Sir Duke?

#61
Originally posted by moley

In fact, I've always gotten the impression that you do know your theory, John, but for some reason I never see you partake in theory discussions ;)
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i know my theory pretty well although there's always room for improvement of course, and i was one of the first proponents for a theory forum, if you check the archives. i lurk around the various theory discussions, and add things when i feel they are appropriate. :) mostly, though, i notice things in the theory forum that make me think, and even if i disagree with them, i'd rather think about it than talk about it. does that make sense?
 
#62
Originally posted by john turner


i know my theory pretty well although there's always room for improvement of course, and i was one of the first proponents for a theory forum, if you check the archives.

Actually yes, I do recall seeing that.

i lurk around the various theory discussions, and add things when i feel they are appropriate. :) mostly, though, i notice things in the theory forum that make me think, and even if i disagree with them, i'd rather think about it than talk about it. does that make sense?
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Sure :)
 
#63
i love playing Sir Duke... in fact... I enjoy playing just about any Stevie Song... but being able to play any song doesn't make you a great bassist...

A good Knowledge of theory and understanding your instrument is Key...

I know my theory... i've studied it for years now... without it, I wouldn't be able to play half of what I can play on bass..
 
#64
I hadn't heard this song in AGES...wow, what a great song.

last time I had heard it was before I was a bassist :p

well, listening to it again, I more or less figured it all out, still a little uncertain on a couple of bits, but I don't mind, I love the feel of the song, I don't care to perfect it. ;)
 
#65
OK I went away and learnt that middle section from Sir Duke, took me just about and hour and a half to get it down "with the record". I had a transcription in standard notation, but in the end it was easier for me to learn it by ear and I only used the transcription when I got a bit lost in the slight flurry of notes towards the end of the section

I expect it'd take me about the same again to get it down with a drum loop like MTR did.

Fairly tricky pattern, but not that tough really. I mean, in all seriousness I'm definitley not in the top 5% of players, but I could get this song down with some practice !

The outro of the song itself has some much more 'flashy' fills and accents from Nathan Watts.

Again, good work MTR, I dig :)

ldiezman said
i love playing Sir Duke... in fact... I enjoy playing just about any Stevie Song... but being able to play any song doesn't make you a great bassist...
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I know what you mean (on both counts!), and I tend to agree, but it has to be said that getting a whole bunch of bassists to audition a song like Sir Duke will soon show up those with ability and feel.
 
#67
Originally posted by Brad Johnson

My slant on learning this and stuff like this? Get it in your head first and the rest is much easier.

jazzbo said: Best post of the thread and it seems to have gone by unnoticed.

Personally, I do play this tune with my band, and it goes over quite well. Big ears man, big ears. I love Stevie, and I love Watts. We also play Master Blaster, I Wish, Superstition, Higher Ground. All great lines. The Jamerson influence is quite apparent.
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Nope!!! Not unnoticed, I noticed and I thought about it almost entirely while figureing out the section in question! It is indeed very good advice - actually I'd go as far as to say it's essential advice.
It's some thing I discovered for myself a while back while writing bass parts, but still something I have to remind myself to do "in times of trouble".

You play Master Blaster - man I LOVE that song! First Stevie song I learnt throughout - absolutley brilliant :)

... and Monty P - cool, nice one :)
I know what you mean that's not phrased precisely as per the record, but it sounds damned close enough! I mean under a barrage of horns a bunch of drunken punters certainly wouldnt notice (inc. me) :D
I must admit I worked on getting it a bit more like the record, but it's much easier to play like the record - with the record.

I wanna add my own mp3 of this.. but alas i have no web space :( I'll try and get one recorded at a low enough sample rate to attach over the weekend
 
#68
Incidentally, this is how my band learned it....

We looped it. Live during rehearsal.

We had the drummer play the beat, then I came in with the lick. At the last note, the F#, on the next downbeat I came back in again from the start of the lick. Over and over and over. It helped me hear the phrasing and get comfortable with it. You can hear something different each time you play it. Then the guitar came in to double, then the sax came in, and we played that 25 second loop for about a half an hour.
 
#69
Originally posted by jazzbo
Incidentally, this is how my band learned it....

We looped it. Live during rehearsal.

We had the drummer play the beat, then I came in with the lick. At the last note, the F#, on the next downbeat I came back in again from the start of the lick. Over and over and over. It helped me hear the phrasing and get comfortable with it. You can hear something different each time you play it. Then the guitar came in to double, then the sax came in, and we played that 25 second loop for about a half an hour.
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That my friends is how a pro band rehearses.:cool:
 
#72
Originally posted by ConU


That my friends is how a pro band rehearses.:cool:
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That's quite funny really - considering there was a long discussion around here about whether you should 'practice' in rehearsals and everybody agreed that you should know your own parts before going into a reahearsal with other band members and that it was unprofessional to keep other people waiting because you couldn't quite get it. :confused:

I have done this sort of thing in Jazz Summerschool - but in the big Latin band, people complain if one person hasn't practiced their part(s)until they know them and it leads to resentment....:hmm:

I'm not trying to be contentious or rude here - just that it seems people were saying one thing in one thread and now the opposite in another?
 
#73
Incidentally, this is how my band learned it....
We looped it. Live during rehearsal.
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Nearly the same, but that's exactly how I learnt it home!
I started off slowing it by around 20bpm so I could more precisely what was going on and learnt it section by section - singing the part as I went - then I looped it at full speed.

I must've played it a hundred times... ...and I think I could happily play it a hundred more :)
 
#74
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
I'm not trying to be contentious or rude here - just that it seems people were saying one thing in one thread and now the opposite in another?
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Well, there is a difference between knowing your part, and being able to play it with the band. Even if everyone does know their parts, it's worth looping it like that so that the band can learn to play it with eachother, not just on their own. To get the whole band tight, and to get everyone phrasing it the same way.
 
#76
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield




I'm not trying to be contentious or rude here - just that it seems people were saying one thing in one thread and now the opposite in another?
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I don't think I'm saying anything different.For this particular line,you would have to know it very well to exercise it like Jazzbo was talking about.
The "pro" part is having the discipline as an ensemble to do it like that,thus taking the band to really phrasing it as unit.Not just "jamming" it once or twice,settling with it being a little loose and hoping it'll tighten up.
It's like Moley said,Ellington had pretty much the same band for 15 years,precisely because they did things like this.But they still knew their parts when they showed up for rehearsal.
 
#77
Originally posted by moley


Well, there is a difference between knowing your part, and being able to play it with the band. Even if everyone does know their parts, it's worth looping it like that so that the band can learn to play it with eachother, not just on their own. To get the whole band tight, and to get everyone phrasing it the same way.
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what he said. there's a level of preparedness that is required for rehearsals to be properly productive, but that doesn't invalidate the need for rehearsals - they're still needed, even with the maximum individual preparation beforehand.
 
#78
Originally posted by john turner


what he said. there's a level of preparedness that is required for rehearsals to be properly productive, but that doesn't invalidate the need for rehearsals - they're still needed, even with the maximum individual preparation beforehand.
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That's what we're expected to do before rehearsals. Practice at home, rehearse at work.
 
#79
I think the point has been made Bruce. Yes, you practice at home, yes you learn the song at home, anything less from my band comes with severe discipline. But, simply because people practice and know the song at home, does not mean the a cohesiveness is instantly acheived. If what you are proposing is true, then a cover band would never ever rehearse, as everyone should be able to play all songs. As moley said, everyone knew Sir Duke coming in, we didn't just learn it on the spot. What we developed, was tightness.
 
#80
This debate is pointless without specific knowledge of each particular group involved and the music it's learning. Of course it's important to prepare the music you are playing before you show up to rehearsals, but the interaction between players and the feel of the ensemble are what's being rehearsed once everyone gets there.

In my original group (Java Men), we loop sections of music all the time to "tighten" our ensemble performance. One tune in particular involves metric modulations on cue from the soloist, and looping is about the only way to practice making those transitions. Anyone who has ever been to an orchestral rehearsal knows that even when the individual players are well prepared, there's still plenty of work to be done for the group as a unit.
 

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